Hip Dysplasia

[Leema]

Some questions I've been pondering...

[Leema]

I'm bumping this to get more votes. :D

[sandgrubber]

Generally, if you buy a pedigree pup of a breed that is affected by HD, the parents will have been tested. There may be exceptions, but in a large number of cases it's required by the Canine authorities.

In some cases (eg Labradors in WA) the requirement is only that tests are done and results filed with the Canine Association, there is no specific threshold in the regulations. Thus it is not sufficient to know that the dogs were tested . . . you also have to ask what the scores are.

[Stolzseinrotts]

Personally, I think all breeding dogs should be screened for HD, it is not only a large breed dog problem. Those that say just because Fred moves fine means his hips are fine is a load of rubbish.........the only way to know for a fact that the hips of a dog are good / suitable is by radiographic evidence which is scored by a recognised reader.

[dead sheep]

I voted for all breeds larger than a kelpie and No I wouldn't purchase a large dog without having hips scored.

[Flaves]

i think a lot of dogs should be tested that aren't

In teh case of gsds, the ANKC needs to come into line with the GSDCA with its hipscaores as teh GSDCA is a lot lower than the ANKC requirements

[rugerfly]

I dont think it has anything to do with breed size. A staffy wondered into Ruger's specialist for a double whammy hip replacement.

I would never ever ever ever ever ever x 1000,00000 buy a lab without tested parents. and their parents before theirs. Then you still have to be careful raising it.

[Leema]

Rugerfly, how did you vote?

Everyone who voted 'only breeds that are affected' - how is a breed defined as affected?

[laeral]

I would like to ask a really stoopid question here.

Is HD only hereditory or can it occur in dogs from well scored parents, which I think is the case? If so is it MORE prevelent in dogs that come from unscored dogs?

Does this make sense

Just interested as I havent heard of any stats before.

[Cosmolo]

I have a dog with bilateral HD- he is a rescue. Would i buy a dog with unscored parents? No- unless the dog was a rescue in which case i would probably take my chances with him/ her. Dexter is the perfect dog for us in every other way- his hip and elbow dysplasia sucks- but i don't regret for a moment choosing him to come home with us.

[MAC]

i think a lot of dogs should be tested that aren't

In teh case of gsds, the ANKC needs to come into line with the GSDCA with its hipscaores as teh GSDCA is a lot lower than the ANKC requirements

i agree!

[Just Midol]

Personally, I think all breeding dogs should be screened for HD, it is not only a large breed dog problem. Those that say just because Fred moves fine means his hips are fine is a load of rubbish.........the only way to know for a fact that the hips of a dog are good / suitable is by radiographic evidence which is scored by a recognised reader.

Most working Husky breeders don't test, very few of them ever have trouble. If the dog can't run it won't be bred, if it can run, its hips are fine.

Laeral: It's environment & genetic. Someone in general once told me if you have two perfect parents they have a 30% chance of producing perfect pups.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Cosmolo]

Midol thats not always true- my vet has seen dogs that have been healthy and mobile their whole life, then get hit by a car and have x rays and their hips are screwed!

[MolassesLass]

I'm concerned that the current ideal is not what every breed should be aiming for. Different breeds have different purposes; surely they would therefore require different hip constructions.

But at the same time, I think it sucks if ANY pet owner suffers the heartache of their pet being PTS for poor construction. Breeding dogs early when they are at their prime is at odds with leaving them until they are old enough to show construction problems. What to do?

I personally, would not buy a dog of a breed that is commonly scored without the parents being scored.

Edited December 18, 2008 by molasseslass

[Owned by Shelties]

I personally think ALL breeds should be tested prior to breeding from. As people have said before just because a dog has beautiful movement means nothing, we had a sheltie many years ago who had beautiful movement won a few RUBIS etc then bam failed hips with a score of 18 ( breed average 8.63)..

You just can't tell unless you have them tested............. It needs to be bought in across the board NO testing NO register of litter ( JMO)....

[Stolzseinrotts]

[Most working Husky breeders don't test, very few of them ever have trouble. If the dog can't run it won't be bred, if it can run, its hips are fine.

I am sorry to say I totally disagree, because a dog can run does NOT mean that it's hips are fine. I have a bitch here that can move all day and she works and works...but sadly her hips are stuffed. Another example - a dog that did a lot of winning in the AB ring as well as doing very very well at Specialty level did move great, could keep moving correctly....but sadly that one had very high scoring hips.................you would have never known by the way it moved. As I have said .......Just because a dog moves great does Not mean it has great hips, radiographic evidence is the only True way to know for sure.

I would rather have an informed picture of the health status of hips than guess based on movement alone..............but that is my opinion.

Edited December 18, 2008 by Stolzseinrotts

[Quickasyoucan]

[Most working Husky breeders don't test, very few of them ever have trouble. If the dog can't run it won't be bred, if it can run, its hips are fine.

I am sorry to say I totally disagree, because a dog can run does NOT mean that it's hips are fine. I have a bitch here that can move all day and she works and works...but sadly her hips are stuffed. Another example - a dog that did a lot of winning in the AB ring as well as doing very very well at Specialty level did move great, could keep moving correctly....but sadly that one had very high scoring hips.................you would have never known by the way it moved. As I have said .......Just because a dog moves great does Not mean it has great hips, radiographic evidence is the only True way to know for sure.

I would rather have an informed picture of the health status of hips than guess based on movement alone..............but that is my opinion.

I have to agree. I recently discovered (x-rays for a different issue) that Jake has mild hip displasia in one hip. He has always been a running and jumping nutter. A lot of the stuff I have read says one of the features of HD is that there is often little correlation between physical syptoms and radiological evidence, ie a dog can have minor problems and show signs of pain and movement limitation but conversely can have stuffed hips and still move well and show little signs of pain. I think that is part of why HD is so frustrating.

Jake is a rescue crossbreed (SBT x kelpie?), but I if I was buying a purebred dog, I would definitely want to know about hip scores. I wouldnt' count SBT's as a large dog but they have HD problems.

[gundoglover]

Is HD only hereditory or can it occur in dogs from well scored parents, which I think is the case? If so is it MORE prevelent in dogs that come from unscored dogs?

Does this make sense :D

Just interested as I havent heard of any stats before.

Dr Willis has been collecting HD scores for breeds for a few decades. From this database he calculates the heritability of HD for these breeds, eg 40% for German Shepherds, 25% for Golden Retrievers. The heritability is that part of the variability in HD in a breed that can be influenced by breeding. The other component is from environmental factors (rearing, feeding, exercise, etc).

Heritabilities are different for various breeds because they differ in the degree of variability they display, and therefore the breeding choices available. As a breed, Golden Retrievers are more similar to each other in radiographic hip construction than German Shepherds. So, Golden Retriever breeders require more generations to reduce the level of radiographic HD in their breeding programs than German Shepherd breeders.

For both breeds the environmental factors outweigh the heritable component. However, selection of sire and dam and puppy environment up to about 8 weeks are the only factors that breeders have in their control. Hence the importance of x-raying breeding stock and being aware of the HD status of their near relatives.

[Just Midol]

[Most working Husky breeders don't test, very few of them ever have trouble. If the dog can't run it won't be bred, if it can run, its hips are fine.

I am sorry to say I totally disagree, because a dog can run does NOT mean that it's hips are fine. I have a bitch here that can move all day and she works and works...but sadly her hips are stuffed. Another example - a dog that did a lot of winning in the AB ring as well as doing very very well at Specialty level did move great, could keep moving correctly....but sadly that one had very high scoring hips.................you would have never known by the way it moved. As I have said .......Just because a dog moves great does Not mean it has great hips, radiographic evidence is the only True way to know for sure.

I would rather have an informed picture of the health status of hips than guess based on movement alone..............but that is my opinion.

A husky working (sport or work) is far different to a dog running around a ring. A husky pulling places pretty intense stress on their hips and joints, running does not. The two are nothing alike.

I never said judged on movement either, you brought that up yourself.

Don't expect you to agree, don't really expect many people to agree. Doesn't really bother me. A husky managing to run multiple trials (sledding) to me is a better indication than any x-ray is and I'd take that over an x-ray. Nothing in the dog world is black & white, so you should stop treating it as though it is.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Nekhbet]

how about we take the midway. I think Midol means that a dog capable of working by running miles pulling sleds and not showing signs of suffering from any conformation fault (obvious or not obvious) is right for breeding. Its how dogs were bred before we introduced x-rays and hip scores. If the dog moved well, did its job at peak performance it was bred from. Breeders used to be, especially of working animals, rather merciless and thankfully so it helped the breeds survive the test of time. Dogs up in the wild countries that have survived for centuries in their original form did so by the healthiest surviving the conditions and humans breeding them together.

I think HD is also becoming prevelant because we are a little less ruthless these days. We accept higher hip scores, we will fix whats wrong instead of just culling it out. We also grow our large and giant breed pups on concentrated diets that encourage faster growth, we encourage and seem to like a heavy body condition as well. ALso lack of a job has kept a few dogs breeding that probably shouldnt - yes it does as a pet but it couldnt do its original job in its present condition so *pfft* out of the breeding program. Now, as long as it can walk about and the x-ray scores fit within the recommended guidelines its bred from.