Kalevi Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hi all, Can anyone help me with understanding training styles please. I was a member with ADT and was doing well with my girl (in Platinum) but with my pup we are really just starting. Now I'm confused about where to go (as I don't want to have two sets of commands for each dog) because I'm hearing the training styles are much different at other clubs. From what I can see I think my two options now are to go either to Berwick Dog Obedience or perhaps even check out the Rotti club that train at KCC. So can anyone fill me in on how Berwick (or the Rotti folks) train that is different to ADT? Thanks, S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr R & NR Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Hi Kalevi, can't help directly with your question but you may want to contact Erny. She is trying to put together some training for ex ADT clients. She was a trainer with them but also has her own company [email protected] Better to email her than PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 From what I can gather Berwick is probably more reward based although that can depend on which instructor you get. I think you would find that you'd fit in at either BODC or the Rotti Club. You can always go down and watch classes at Berwick first, see if you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulp Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 At BODC we tend to start with luring then phase that into rewarding positive behaviour then cut back the rewarding as practical. It starts out as "good pet training" with some emphasis brought in for trialling at the higher levels. As Staff n' Toller said, it tends to vary between trainers but follows the same general concept. I don't know how ADT trained so I can't highlight any differences for you. A number of former ADT members joined up with us last Saturday and quite a few more have expressed interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 The main differences between ADT and most other clubs, is ADT taught social walking (the dog must be on a loose lead at all times but can be in any area around the handler), this was because so many people didn't want their dog heeling next to them 24/7. The other exercise is when the handler halts ADT taught dogs to automatically stand but other clubs teach the auto sit. It may take a little patience in the learning phase of heeling from you but dogs are quick learners and you and your dog will fit in where ever you go. We are lucky we have so many clubs in the Melbourne area. I train my dogs at Rotty Club. All the people there are helpful and my dogs and I enjoy going, I have met some really nice people there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulp Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) The main differences between ADT and most other clubs, is ADT taught social walking (the dog must be on a loose lead at all times but can be in any area around the handler), this was because so many people didn't want their dog heeling next to them 24/7. The other exercise is when the handler halts ADT taught dogs to automatically stand but other clubs teach the auto sit.It may take a little patience in the learning phase of heeling from you but dogs are quick learners and you and your dog will fit in where ever you go. We are lucky we have so many clubs in the Melbourne area. I train my dogs at Rotty Club. All the people there are helpful and my dogs and I enjoy going, I have met some really nice people there. BOCD teach loose leash walking (dog can be anywhere as long as the leash is loose) so there is a similarity but we also teach automatic sits so a difference as well. However we do try to be flexible so I doubt any instructor is going to be troubled if you do automatic stands in class. Edited August 3, 2009 by Paulp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Granted I'm in Sydney but I don't know of any DogsNSW affiliated clubs that use the guide, show, place system of teaching positions such as sit, drop, stand like ADT did. Most that I know of use luring and lots of food and toy rewards, and some do not allow check chains. The one club I did know of (the one where I did my NDTF class instruction prac) was not DogsNSW affiliated and is no longer training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I trained at ADT but have now started with Croydon. My boy really struggled with luring (after all, he has been taught not to follow the treat until I release him). The trainer at Croydon thought he was being defiant! But really he was being very good by not going for the treats . We struggled for a few weeks and neither of us were having a great time, he didn't understand why I wasn't rewarding his rock-solid sit-and-do-nothing-while-mum-waves-food-in-front-of-me. The Croydon trainer didn't seem to understand the guide-show-place method and so couldn't help me break though the barrier. I arranged a 1:1 session with Judi (aka Erny, who doesn't train at Croydon, but understands both the ADT and luring methods) and things have improved greatly. Truth be told I'm not a great fan of luring, but they do dog sports at Croydon, and I'd like to try those out in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Megan what level are you at at Croydon?? We only do luring in pre-puppy & puppy. At the end of Puppy the handlers shouldn't be luring, they should be at a reward stage, with the luring hand movement becoming a visual command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all that glitters Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I go to Knox Obedience Club off Ferntree gully road, they seem great, you work up through the levels (Baby Puppy, Beginners, Class 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc) and they allow food rewards through the training and testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Megan what level are you at at Croydon?? We only do luring in pre-puppy & puppy. At the end of Puppy the handlers shouldn't be luring, they should be at a reward stage, with the luring hand movement becoming a visual command. Megan didn't have her dog (what a cute little guy that he is ) at Croydon for the pre-puppy & puppy levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Well there should be no luring in Basic 1 or 2. Maybe in a basic 1 class that had dogs that couldn't sit at all as they hadn't been through puppies. If the dog could already sit, drop & stand I don't know why the instructor would say to lure though. We do get taught other methods from luring btw as not all dogs respond to luring. I taught the under the legs/bridge drop method last week to my puppy class as 1 puppy wouldn't lure. Edited August 3, 2009 by JulesP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Well there should be no luring in Basic 1 or 2. Yeah - but as Megan has said, Megan's dog didn't do very well with the instructor Guide Showing and Placing which is why she (Megan) sought some (outside) assistance. Drop had only just begun for her dog so I presume this is why the Croydon instructor suggested lure, but when that didn't work, GSP was tried. Megan's boy has now learnt targeting as well as the 'drop' exercise via "lure" and also "GSP" and was within the first lesson moving off lure and onto positive reward and this should help Megan move on and enjoy and adapt to the Croydon classes. He's a smart little dog and quick learner so he should do well . Edited August 3, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 It would be incorrect though to say that at Croydon they do xyz when it might just have been that particular instructor. We were even taught how to physically drop a dog in the training course. That is all I am saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 (edited) Ah - Ok. I think I getcha . I thought you were questioning why Megan's dog needed to be lured or GSP'd. ETA: Anyway - glad he's going well for you Megan . You caught on well too . Edited August 3, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Well there should be no luring in Basic 1 or 2. Maybe in a basic 1 class that had dogs that couldn't sit at all as they hadn't been through puppies. If the dog could already sit, drop & stand I don't know why the instructor would say to lure though. We do get taught other methods from luring btw as not all dogs respond to luring. I taught the under the legs/bridge drop method last week to my puppy class as 1 puppy wouldn't lure. I'm in Basic 1. I think most of the dogs in my class are new to Croydon because everyone seemed to be luring in the first few lessons. I didn't mean to dis Croydon, there are many good things about it. Rather, I was trying to explain why ex-ADTers might have to put in some extra work to adjust to training at a VCA club. Oh, and Erny thanks for the compliments re: Fergus, he is the best :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr R & NR Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 The recent posts highlight one of the things that was different about ADT in that all instructors taught the exercises the same way so it didn't depend on which instructor was teaching the class how an exercise was taught. ADT instrutors had other methods up their sleeves for obedience and behaviour issues if it was just was not working for dog and handler but the client would be helped individually in these circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalevi Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Thanks guys, So the only real difference I'll probably notice is the auto sit (rather than stand) and perhaps more luring (which I actually use anyhow with my pup, ADT were fine with that when I was teaching him drop and actually showed me a slightly better way to do it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Berwick might prefer you to train with a flat collar. I know that Croydon does. Think the clubs are fairly similar in training styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalevi Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Berwick might prefer you to train with a flat collar. I know that Croydon does. Think the clubs are fairly similar in training styles. Oh - can someone confirm that. That would not work for me given we've already trained the correction technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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