giraffez Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) How can I socialise my puppy with other dogs? I've started taking my pup to doggy school and does not socialise well with other dogs. He is not used to seeing ohter dogs around.... so when he saw them for the first time, he growled. I mainly kept him inside the house before his vaccination took effect. He is ok at seeing other people and he can be such a sweetheart but with other dogs, he gets so distracted. How can i safely sociallise him with other dogs. I don't know of too many other dog owners.... will he snap out of the aggression eventually? He is 5.5 months old Edited September 13, 2009 by giraffez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Dog school with qualified instructors who can help you is a good start but a few private sessions with a good trainer would be invaluable. No, your pup will not snap out of it, particularly if he did not see any dogs during his critical period (6-16 weeks) Whereabouts are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Giraffez- agree with cosmolo.. because of his protected puppyhood, your boy has not learnt doggy manners. You will need to be carefully taught how to socialise him... preferably with some one-on -one time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) Giraffez .... Your pup is entering his teenage phase. You may remember what that is like - as though you know all about the world and feel as though you can handle it, when often you might feel easily threatened and so a bit too quickly respond with aggression ?? Your pup is similar, although not quite the same. It is likely he is feeling fearful yet simultaneously thinks it is up to him to deal with what is threatening him. I agree with the others that you would do best by him by engaging a trainer/behaviourist. One who can help you establish your messages of "leader" (a leader is the one whose role it is to protect) and who will be able to show and demonstrate HOW you manage the protection in such a way that your dog understands that's what you're doing and that you will do it well. It is important that what you do is not something that your pup can perceive as a reinforcement for his aggression. Please don't leave this too long - it will only become more difficult. Edited August 19, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 As usual, great advice here from 'the usual suspects ' - you guys give so much to other dog owners - thank you. giraffez - now you can see why we were urging you not to wait till after 3rd shots. (sorry - couldn't resist that - and it's there for other new puppyowners who may be reading.) However, you can still help your pup to become more accepting of other dogs - he may never be a party animal, but then not all dogs are, and it's not compulsory. He does need to be taught that seeing other dogs around is OK, and you will always take the leadership role. I'd suggest you invest in the Control Unleashed book by Leslie McDevitt - and the DVDs if you're well off. Particularly I'd suggest playing the Look at That game - essentially, you're teaching your pup that looking (nicely) at other dogs is a good thing, for which he will be rewarded by you. IMHO, you need to be keeping him sub-threshold - i.e. keeping him outside the distance where he will react inappropriately - that gives him the feeling of safety, so that he can pay attention to you. If you inadvertently get too close, take the leadership role and turn and go (if possible, turning round his head, so that you are between him and the other dog. - thus showing him you have the situation in hand and will do the protecting if necessary - it's not his job.) Don't feel embarrassed in a class situation if you're the only one staying a distance off - it doesn't matter - you do what you need to do for your dog. Any sensible instructor will a) respect that, and b) probably have suggested that you do it. Don't necessarily be comparing your pup with others - their socialisation history may be way different from your pup's and they may by nature be more sociable and outgoing - just like people, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 You rarely have unsocial minis,infact i have yet to see any. I think you do need to seek help to make sure you are reading it all right giraffez - now you can see why we were urging you not to wait till after 3rd shots. (sorry - couldn't resist that - and it's there for other new puppy owners who may be reading.) This is only good advice if done correctly & as read on DOL many a time people who have followed this advice have also ended up with a pup terrified of dogs. Dont panic at his first experience,depending on the other dogs it can be very overwhelming & being patient & taking baby steps works wonders.providing your instructor knows what there doing your little one will enjoy mixing sooner than you think. Mins are brave soles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 You rarely have unsocial minis,infact i have yet to see any. Three that I have seen and worked with personally in the last couple of years, that immediately come to mind. So I don't think it is that rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I have seen at least 2 in the last 6 months or so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 putting hand up here - yup a few. OMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) You rarely have unsocial minis,infact i have yet to see any. Three that I have seen and worked with personally in the last couple of years, that immediately come to mind. So I don't think it is that rare. I'm no expert but I agree. I have two minis who are very good with other dogs but every single mini at my local park is very DA (except for one or two). So DA that they snarl, lunge and almost choke themselves. Everything that I've read says they have a DA tendency unless properly sociliased from a very young age. To the OP - I wouldn't mess around with this, trying things on your own etc. A DA dog makes walks, outings etc soooo much harder and stressful. I would go to a behaviourist (one recommended by DOL, because there are a *lot* of charlatans out there) and work on it. Whatever you do, don't take advice from non-experts (seen this at my dog park, people just trying to socialise their DA dogs, thinking that if they meet other dogs they'll become friends like humans do etc). In fact, I'd suggest avoiding direct contact with other dogs until you've consulted someone. Still take him on walks etc, but always keep him on a leash and keep other dogs at a distance. Letting him get worked up near other dogs is only going to cement the behaviour. And I agree with Settrlvr, don't panic! Minis have plenty of chutspah, that is why I love them. I'd still go to a behaviourist that your usual trainer though because so many trainers don't actually understand dog behaviour and don't have time in class to give you attention, even if they do have the knowledge. For example, I go to a highly regarded dog training school and the trainer told everyone to put the dogs in the middle and say hello even though two just had a huge barmy and still had their hackles up. As predicted, more fighting broke out (I kept my boy to the side, it was all too predictable). Edited August 20, 2009 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giraffez Posted August 21, 2009 Author Share Posted August 21, 2009 Thanks all for the replies. Other dogs in the training class seem to get on so well together and some were in the same situation (ie not exposed to other dogs before), so was very concerned when my mini (which is very sociable breed) became aggressive. He had plenty of playmates when he was at the breeders so didn't think it would affect him that much without the company of other dogs for a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 Some dogs require better socialisation than others to be okay with other dogs. I would not describe Mini schnauzers as inherently social. Regardless of what the pup had at the breeders, all pups should have safe controlled socialisation during their critical period. Now that your critical period is over, you need to seek professional help asap. Don't wait until he has been practicing the behaviour for 6 months, 1 year, 3 years- if not resolved behaviour like this is likely to become worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I have a working B/C and she is a nice dog but when off lead she can sometimes target dogs and rush at them and snap and bark at them but once she knows them she is fine, go figure, i domt know what to do either, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 (edited) Everything that I've read says they have a DA tendency unless properly socialised from a very young age. May i ask what you have read ??? Having owned the breed for over 24 yrs i havent read any thing saying this breed has a tendancy to be DA. I am just curious more to whether it is in relation to people perserving them as terriers in articles or not. We board many minis we have breed & others & have yet to see a DA mini, as i say rarely do they appear because the breed by nature is very social. The other sizes is a whole new ball game Edited August 21, 2009 by settrlvr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) Settrlvr .... As I and others have mentioned, we have seen quite a number of them, but I never for a moment thought of it as a 'breed' issue. Perhaps these people, because the dog is small in size, are treating them more like children (and babying them) rather than treating them like dogs. This is such a common thing amongst the owners of 'little' dogs. Each of the ones I have worked with, leadership was way out of whack - no boundaries etc. etc. They each improved extremely (and in fact quite remarkably) well. Edited August 22, 2009 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Everything that I've read says they have a DA tendency unless properly socialised from a very young age. May i ask what you have read ??? Having owned the breed for over 24 yrs i havent read any thing saying this breed has a tendancy to be DA. I am just curious more to whether it is in relation to people perserving them as terriers in articles or not. We board many minis we have breed & others & have yet to see a DA mini, as i say rarely do they appear because the breed by nature is very social. The other sizes is a whole new ball game I'll try to find references. As I said, I'm no expert - I only have two and they are my first dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 I know one unsocial mini also, he doesnt like other dogs at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giraffez Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Just an update on this, I took my mini for his 3rd obiedience class and he is doing a lot better. No more growling... today actually started pouncing around with another dog. He is not bothered by other dogs being around him - i noticed he only gets distracted if they make a very quick movement. I'm very relieved that he is getting along with other but will be watching closely on his behaviour. A great improvement since his first week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Thats great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Good stuff, giraffez - sounds like you just need to build up gradually, and he'll be fine. Do try to make sure he doesn't have unhappy experiences with other dogs - keep your eyes open for 'rude' dogs, and just calmly walk in a different direction with your little man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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