Ashanali Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 There are two issues one - dog shouldn't have been in the salon. Yes it's nice when you see dogs at people's workplaces but really, it shouldn't have been there or it should have been in a back room and secured. two - I'm not talking about the little girl in question. I am talking about my lifelong experience in hair salons. There are SOME children that are just typical children. At around 20 months old, 'typical' includes being curious and wanting to check out everything in the world around you. They aren't monsters, they aren't feral, they are just being a normal and curious baby. Around this age children need to be supervised 100%. A parent sitting in a salon chair can't do this unless the child is secured in a pram. There are too many parents who go into salons, sit in the hairdressers chair and pretend their kids don't exist and leave hairdressers to be baby sitters. I am NOT saying children should be banned in salons, or never taking out in public because that's just stupid, all I am saying is that there needs to be someone dedicated to the care of the child 100% of the time and at THAT AGE PERIOD (around 20 months), it really can't be the person sitting in the chair and it definitely shouldn't be the hairdresser or salon staff. If the story is as lisa said it was earlier, then it's a very sad situation. It would appear that salon owner was very complacent about the dog, it would also appear that the parents of the child just took it all at face value as would most parents when they hear, "oh, dog's okay". The child probably did nothing more than look towards the dog, the dog simply saw a child at eye level and thought it was challenging him. (if the story is correct.) A terrible accident that could have been prevented Very very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I agree with Ashanli, I spent waaaay too much time in a family day care household with 4 kids under 4 much of the time and if there is an opportunity for a kid to hurt itself it will, it's like putting your prize thoroughbred in a paddock with barb wire fences and trusting that it will have the good sense to not entangle itself! Kids and horses can get themselves injured quick as lightning without the added risk of a feeding dog. It's funny because there was a backlash against kiddy harnesses and leads years ago, some new age carry on about restricting a child's freedom or damaging their mental state or something, now the kiddy leads are coming back as commonsense slowly returns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 My daughter was almost bitten on the face while I was talking to the dog's owner. I was holding her hand at the time and she was standing quietly beside me. The dog lunged at her face suddenly and it was only the fact that he was on a lead that saved my daughter from being seriously bitten. Was I not supervising my child? She was attached to my hand, but had she been bitten, no doubt the crazies on here would find someway to make it MY fault or my child's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanali Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ah yes... kiddy harnesses. I keep meaning to buy two when I'm out but I forget each time. Freedom? They are small, they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanali Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 My daughter was almost bitten on the face while I was talking to the dog's owner. I was holding her hand at the time and she was standing quietly beside me. The dog lunged at her face suddenly and it was only the fact that he was on a lead that saved my daughter from being seriously bitten. Was I not supervising my child? She was attached to my hand, but had she been bitten, no doubt the crazies on here would find someway to make it MY fault or my child's fault. Casey (my 9 year old) was bitten on the face by a dog when he was about three, he still has the scars (very small and faded puncture wounds now). He was 100% supervised, unfortunately he tripped and landed on the sleeping dog's tail and instinctively the dog turned and lunged at him. I still blame myself for not enforcing my direction of 'keep away from the dog' and I still blame the child slightly for ignoring me. No matter how stable you think a dog is or have been told it is, unknown dogs are ALWAYS an unknown quantity and it's up to parents to exercise caution. No, I wouldn't be blaming you or your child if she had been bitten, but I would still be looking at what could be done differently if in a similar situation again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 no doubt the crazies on here would find someway to make it MY fault or my child's fault. That's not fair. The stats are there, children make up the majority of dog bite victims from dogs in their home or dogs they know, so yes there should be concern over children and dogs being unsupervised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) In discussing dog attacks on children at a major seminar a few years back, one of Australia's leading paedatric surgeons dismissed the myth of "killer dogs" stating that the common factor in nearly all dog attacks on children was lack of effective parental supervison. Allocating blame or fault accomplishes nothing. It certainly doesn't repair facial injuries that a child will carry for life. Proximity to a child is not always effective supervision. Children can down in swimming pools with their parents within arms reach. A temporary distraction for the parent can provide the window for tragedy. The same thing applies to dogs. The keys here are undivided attention from the parent, the ability to read a dog and knowledge of the dog. If any of those elements is missing, then IMO the child simply shouldn't be within strike range. Easier said than done I know but I think the analogy with swimming pools is a good one. Either focus on the child at all times or dont' let it within range of disaster. I don't blame people for not knowing about resource guarding or for trusting the owners advice that the dog is fine. But the simple facts of the matter are that without effective supervision, these accidents (and they ARE tragic accidents) will continue to occur. Dogs with food should be automatic no go zones and dogs around kids with food should receive the same treatment. Like it or not, this recent attack was pretty much a text book example of what can happen. Young child + dog with food. I'd venture to speculate that the dog was a young male and possibly entire but that's probaby pushing it. Edited November 23, 2009 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Some of you will remember the Mal I saw through a work video. He was HUGE but so lovely and gentle. When he went towards someone he would have "soft" eyes and ears low gnetle wagging tail head down a touch. Perfect manners but near food he would at the last second freeze and strike with absolute ferocity (sp?). It was chilling to watch. A dog can give all the happy signals and then freeze for but a split second and attack. Its so quick even if you were looking right at the dog unless you had been exposed to dogs like this again and again and react on instinc you would not have time for your brain to process. That is why the dog shouldnt be unsupervised by the owner and able to approach strangers especially around food. People dont have to be dog friendly and they dont have to know the signs that well. If they are in a public work place they should have the right to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 A dog can give all the happy signals and then freeze for but a split second and attack. Its so quick even if you were looking right at the dog unless you had been exposed to dogs like this again and again and react on instinc you would not have time for your brain to process. Shadowwalker , this is the sort of footage that every dog owner needs to see. Forget the breed, I have seen the same scenario with a Dachshund. I was similarly attacked by a Rough Collie, other children have been similarly attacked by ACDs, GSDs, terriers, little fluffies and other types. Read dog - not breed. The Dachsie's decision to lunge and bite a small child on the eye came totally without warning. The speed involved was mind blowing. Nobody saw it coming, nobody could have stopped it happening. I was one of 5 adults in the same room, some of us were within reach of the dog. Why the dog did it we will never know. In that attack, there was: - No food involved. - No warning signals. - No movement or threat from the child. This was a family pet with no history of aggression and had not had any bad dealings with children and was considered to be well socialised. He has never attacked anyone since but everyone knows never to trust this dog near children again. When this type of attack happens, as Shadow Walker says, your brain does not have enough time to process what is happening until it is too late. Supervision can be there, but cannot stop this type of attack because of the speed with which the attack occurs. To all those people who are pointing the finger at parents, please STOP. Educate yourselves to the power of our animals, and the unpredictability, and then make sure that you take the necessary steps to keep children safe. That way, you are also keeping your dog safe. If you dont, well don't bother coming on to boards like this moaning because there are "No Dogs" signs going up in your favourite places. The "blame-it-on-anyone-but-the dog" attitude, and failing to keep the necessary steps to keep children safe, guarantee that the "No Dogs" signs will be the end result for our society. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Educate yourselves to the power of our animals, and the unpredictability, and then make sure that you take the necessary steps to keep children safe. That way, you are also keeping your dog safe. I have to say I agree with this. Dogs are unpredictable at best. They are animals, not little humans. They do not think or act like humans and many seem to fail to understand that. If the owner of the dog understood this and the parent of the child understood this, the attack may never have happened. Many seem to be forgetting that dogs are canines. Animals. Not fluffy stuffed toys to dress up, sleep in our beds and eat with our families. A dog is a dog. Edited November 24, 2009 by PugRescueSydney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The "blame-it-on-anyone-but-the dog" attitude, and failing to keep the necessary steps to keep children safe, guarantee that the "No Dogs" signs will be the end result for our society. When dogs are as much the product of their environment as their breeding, I would resist any suggestion that dogs alone should shoulder the responsibility for attacking children. Few dogs attack without warning - the fact that people may not read them does not suggest that they don't indicate discomfort. Unless a dog is running the full length of the room to attack children, then attacks can be prevented. The responsiblity for prevention falls to people, not dogs. Yes, there are 'bad' dogs.. but there are also ignorant and careless owners and distracted parents. Blaming dogs for attacks happens now and focussing on breed instead of a dog's temperament, socialisation and training ignores the fact that so many dog bite incidents can be prevented by strategies other than removing dogs from our society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casowner Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I remember being critisised not too long ago for not allowing my kids unsupervised with an 80kg Flock Guardian (or any dog for that matter), but then parents in these situations get a blasting for not supervising kids Again,I reiterate my point Never leave kids unsupervised with dogs To those who know the family of this little girl please pass on my heartfelt wishes to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) You can't ban people with guide dogs in salons, what about them? A blind guy frequents the salon I go to, along with his lovely black labrador. eta: A salon in the city I used to go to sometimes for a hair cut had a maltese there. She belonged to the owner and I was amazed at how he could juggle handling cash in one hand while holding onto the white fluffy in the other. Edited November 24, 2009 by Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Guide dogs aren't given bones while working, or allowed to roam around while their owner is otherwise occupied. They also no doubt have much better manners than this husky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashanali Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Educate yourselves to the power of our animals, and the unpredictability, and then make sure that you take the necessary steps to keep children safe. That way, you are also keeping your dog safe. Souff Totally agree with this statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well yes, Vincent is lovely, just like his owner. I don't agree with dogs (apart from assistance dogs) in hair salons either. There is a kids' play area designated to where I go that is at the back of the salon and kids are encouraged to go there when adults are in the chair. However, I don't know if anyone watches that area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantis Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Ditto to Gretel's post. I really HATE dogs in places like that. Dogs belong at home OR if they have to be there, they should be confined. Why was the dog being fed while a small child was around? It makes me really angry. Agree, a hairdresser I went to in Perth used to take he beautiful Rotti to her salon with her, but he was kept out the back room, divided by a solid metre high gate. The only time she let him out was when there was only one client in the store who loved dogs like me. No way she would let him just have access to the salon, especially seeing as she had an area for children of clients to sit on the floor & play with toys. Good to hear the little girl hasn't been too damaged, let's hope she makes a full recovery, RIP beautiful Husky, your time is nigh, thanks to your irresponsible owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 The "blame-it-on-anyone-but-the dog" attitude, and failing to keep the necessary steps to keep children safe, guarantee that the "No Dogs" signs will be the end result for our society. When dogs are as much the product of their environment as their breeding, I would resist any suggestion that dogs alone should shoulder the responsibility for attacking children. Few dogs attack without warning - the fact that people may not read them does not suggest that they don't indicate discomfort. Unless a dog is running the full length of the room to attack children, then attacks can be prevented. The responsiblity for prevention falls to people, not dogs. Yes, there are 'bad' dogs.. but there are also ignorant and careless owners and distracted parents. Blaming dogs for attacks happens now and focussing on breed instead of a dog's temperament, socialisation and training ignores the fact that so many dog bite incidents can be prevented by strategies other than removing dogs from our society. Totally agree with you PF Resorting to blaming the dog for being a bad dog not only removes any responsibility for us as dog owners, parents, people but lulls people into the false sense of security that comes with blaming the dog instead of looking at other factors - training, socialisation and supervision that cause dog attacks. We need to remember that dogs attacks CAN be prevented. Without educating people to the importance of training, supervision and socialisation we will never reduce dog attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) My daughter was almost bitten on the face while I was talking to the dog's owner. I was holding her hand at the time and she was standing quietly beside me. The dog lunged at her face suddenly and it was only the fact that he was on a lead that saved my daughter from being seriously bitten. Was I not supervising my child? She was attached to my hand, but had she been bitten, no doubt the crazies on here would find someway to make it MY fault or my child's fault. There are plenty of incidents where children have been attacked by dogs because they were not being supervised adequately. Instead of getting hysterical and suggesting it's never the parents fault, don't you think it's vitally important to educate parents on how crucial it is to supervise their children around dogs? I see far too many parents who are completely and utterly ignorant when it comes to letting their kids being around dogs - the parents who let their child unlock my back door and walk out to play with Micha when he was eating a bone is just one of many examples... I get parents who let their kids run up to my dogs and pat them without asking, who see nothing wrong with letting their kids grab, hug, pat, yell in my dog's faces. And they would be the first to blame the dog and owner if their kid ever got bitten! Edited November 24, 2009 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Huski That education is vitally needed, nobody is denying that. Educating owners that a dog is not a toy is also needed. A dog is an animal and can be as unpredictable as any other animal. Every day there are tragedies just waiting to happen. This was one of them. Souff Edited November 24, 2009 by Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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