Problems With Tail

[poodlefan]

It's great that the breeder is being so supportive.

Fingers crossed for a good outcome for your pup.

[ellz]

Post purchase examination was done on my girl (day after bringing her home) and nothing was noticed. So whether this is a reflection on the vet or whether this issue has just become more apparent as she has grown (and therefore the tail has grown!), who knows. Im more inclined to think the later, given that the breeder and several vets (at the one practice) didnt notice it, and whilst i noticed it i brushed it off as just a quirk of the breed (GSD not being overly affectionate dogs)

Great news in that the breeder has already called me. Given me the name and phone number of a vet that specialises in GSD's. I was worrying over nothing with how the breeder would take it. Was nothing but helpful and interested in the problem. Has never heard of this happening before (mum injuring pup tail through stepping). He has suggested could be a problem with a disc, so going to explore that possibility. The vet he has suggested is also familiar with her blood lines, so if there is any issue back through the lines, she will be able to figure that out. So fingers crossed!

There....that's what I like to hear! Good for you and good for the breeder.

[moosmum]

Ellz,

you seem to have got quite upset that my comments reflected your own,tho' not worded as well perhaps.

I don't know much about the law, but from a laymans view point only,this is how I see it.

A lot will depend on how much you paid for the pup. WRONG - price has absolutely nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter whether somebody paid $1 or $1000, the Fair Trading Laws are the same.

Naturaly.But wouldn't fair trading take into account the factors mentioned below in a dispute? ie; What you told the breeders of your expectations for the pup.

If you are expecting a lot of guarantees expect your pup to cost a lot more.Those costs incurred by the breeder will be passed on. WRONG - reputable breeders will do this anyway.

Yes,reputable breeders will.That does not mean it has to apply here.

With even the best of dogs health wise,no one can guarantee every pup will be free of any health or other issues. CORRECT

Such a breeder MAY offer to replace the pup,for one that better suits your needs if it can be assumed the damage did not occur while in your care. WRONG - a breeder doesn't HAVE to offer a replacement pup, under some circumstances they may offer to pay vet bills but they will not be automatically expected to do so no matter WHEN the "damage" occurred.

A lot will depend upon when the purchaser first noticed AND NOTED the issue and in this case, I'd be wondering why it took them so long to mention it to the vet if the puppy has been seen so many times for other issues. If a breeder does offer a replacement and the purchaser chooses to keep the puppy that they have, that is generally the end of the story. Also, most reputable and responsible breeders request that a purchaser take their puppy to a vet within a prescribed period of time. Any issues such as the tail could reasonably be expected to be picked up on at that examination.

And thats why I did NOT say they must,only that they MAY,if they choose, make that offer, if it can be assumed etc. etc.

I made it quite clear I was no expert and willing to stand corrected,but if you just want to jump on me I can handle that.

[ellz]

Ellz,

you seem to have got quite upset that my comments reflected your own,tho' not worded as well perhaps.

I don't know much about the law, but from a laymans view point only,this is how I see it.

A lot will depend on how much you paid for the pup. WRONG - price has absolutely nothing to do with it. It wouldn't matter whether somebody paid $1 or $1000, the Fair Trading Laws are the same.

Naturaly.But wouldn't fair trading take into account the factors mentioned below in a dispute? ie; What you told the breeders of your expectations for the pup.

If you are expecting a lot of guarantees expect your pup to cost a lot more.Those costs incurred by the breeder will be passed on. WRONG - reputable breeders will do this anyway.

Yes,reputable breeders will.That does not mean it has to apply here.

With even the best of dogs health wise,no one can guarantee every pup will be free of any health or other issues. CORRECT

Such a breeder MAY offer to replace the pup,for one that better suits your needs if it can be assumed the damage did not occur while in your care. WRONG - a breeder doesn't HAVE to offer a replacement pup, under some circumstances they may offer to pay vet bills but they will not be automatically expected to do so no matter WHEN the "damage" occurred.

A lot will depend upon when the purchaser first noticed AND NOTED the issue and in this case, I'd be wondering why it took them so long to mention it to the vet if the puppy has been seen so many times for other issues. If a breeder does offer a replacement and the purchaser chooses to keep the puppy that they have, that is generally the end of the story. Also, most reputable and responsible breeders request that a purchaser take their puppy to a vet within a prescribed period of time. Any issues such as the tail could reasonably be expected to be picked up on at that examination.

And thats why I did NOT say they must,only that they MAY,if they choose, make that offer, if it can be assumed etc. etc.

I made it quite clear I was no expert and willing to stand corrected,but if you just want to jump on me I can handle that.

Not at all. I'm not in the slightest bit upset. In fact there is somewhat of a running joke in another location at the moment because I am quite uncharacteristically "mellow" in my responses this evening.

What I did was to correct your obvious misconceptions of breeders and the purebred dog world. If more breeders would take the time to do so, then so much misinformation wouldn't cloud peoples opinions and there would be a whole lot less nastiness when wires get crossed and things aren't understood clearly.

Edited to fix placement of my reply and improve clarity.

Edited December 29, 2009 by ellz

[Starkehre]

Glad you contacted the breeder and now feel much more at ease about the whole situation. Thank goodness you popped in here first and got great advice from some lovely people.

I have only just read this thread, but was also going to say after reading your opening post, to contact the breeder immediately. It had originally sounded like you were ensuring you had mounted a solid case of evidence against the breeder before contacting her. Whereas it is always far more constructive and amicable to work WITH the breeder and not AGAINST them.

I wish you the best outcome.

And excellent news to hear your breeder is being supportive and interested. Ethical breeders will usually always behave this way when approached correctly

[lappiemum]

I have to find the exact wording, but essentially here in Vic, if a breeder sells a puppy in good faith, (and that can be proven, ofcourse!) and something emerges post-sale, the breeding is not necessarily automatically liable. Ethics issues, however, are a different matter.

[grantwit]

Just to assure everyone- liability is not in my list of priorities, sorry if it came off that way. That's just the frustration for my poor girl! The only reason I asked about it is because of what I've read in the past and really not having any idea what the go is these days.

[grantwit]

Well i went out to see the German Shepherd vet today. She has diagnosed the problem as being a pinched nerve in the sacrum area. She has recommended i take Cullen to a chiropractor. Now i just have to find a doggy chiropractor!

[Shelby]

Whereabouts are you Sas10? If you let us know, I am sure someone will be able to give you a recommendation to a good doggy chiro in your area.

Glad it is only a pinched nerve - poor baby.

[Guest Pandii]

I have a shar pei that has a broken tail, probably at birth, it was discussed it may have to be amputated as he cannot move it, nor have any feeling, he is now nearly 18 months old and we some care he manages fine and still has his tail

[mrs tornsocks]

Thought I'd add my story here in terms of compensation. After bringing our lab pup home aged 8 wks, at about 11 weeks our puppy school instructor noticed he had an overbite.

We are novice owners so didn't think to look him over for this when we picked him up, although I did 'inspect' him as best I knew how. (We had no plans to breed or show).

Long story short, as soon as we found out, we contacted the breeder, who agreed to pay for any costs associated with the overbite, to the point that it was causing him health issues. It hasn't and it has improved a little but he's 9 months now and doesn't seem like it will effect him in any way.

The point being, I would always contact the breeder as a first port of call, no matter what. It's great you've done that.

As an aside, did you tell him about the 'mites' and what was reaction there ? I'd have thought that was something seen in the initial vet inspection.

Edited January 3, 2010 by mrs tornsocks

[ellz]

mrs tornsocks, if the "mites" are Demodex (as I suspect they may be) they can become an issue at any time and may well not have been apparent at the time of the initial vet inspection. They are generally associated with a low immune system and can be exacerbated by stress or illness (perhaps even pain-related so maybe treating the tail could help with the mites too?).

Glad there is a good diagnosis with a positive prognosis!

On the subject of tails. I have an 8 year old Devon rex cat who has a fused tail at her sacrum and a really bad tail deformity further down as well (like a huge great knucklebone in the middle of her tail). Her back end is definitely affected by the fusion but she still has her tail. It doesn't do what a cat's tail would normally do by way of assisting balance etc so she does tend to be more clumsy than most Devons, and her poor old tail gets very cold at times but she's happy. My vet seems to think it could even be the pussycat version of human spina bifida.

[grantwit]

Yes well the mites should have been picked up by the vets, not necessarily at the post purchase inspection but at every vet check since . After i had her for a week she had to go on antibiotics for 'puppy pimples'. The idea of mites was first raised then, as she was scratching and biting too much. The idea was also raised at a couple of other appointments (all her vaccs). I kept being told german shepherds dont suffer from mites and thats its normal to scratch etc like that. Eventuallyi went to the vet one day after work for ONLY the itching and insisted that it wasnt right and that if it wasnt mites then it was a skin condition and needed to be treated. A scaping was done and what do you know, mites!! So from that i learnt to be more forceful, after all im the one that knows my dog best!

Ive also since found out that it was also mentioned to the vet at many appointments that her tail never wagged, but this was also brushed off. And i do trust my vet implicitly (although there are three vets there and i would try to only see her). When my old dog got sick and died after two weeks last february she was beyond wonderful with treating her and looking after her. Really cared about the dog and my family. I guess the big thing is though that vets only see your dog for a very short time infrequently. So if you are worried about something and are not satisfied with the vets response, insist that they run further tests/investigate it further. Dont take no for an answer.

[grantwit]

I have a shar pei that has a broken tail, probably at birth, it was discussed it may have to be amputated as he cannot move it, nor have any feeling, he is now nearly 18 months old and we some care he manages fine and still has his tail

Aww poor little thing. Glad to hear he still has his tail though. Whilst the diagnosis for Cullen is a pinched nerve, she thinks it probably happened at birth or soon after. Whilst amputation may still be a possibility, im hoping that with care i can also avoid it. Only thing is she has such a long tail!

[all that glitters]

Post purchase examination was done on my girl (day after bringing her home) and nothing was noticed. So whether this is a reflection on the vet or whether this issue has just become more apparent as she has grown (and therefore the tail has grown!), who knows. Im more inclined to think the later, given that the breeder and several vets (at the one practice) didnt notice it, and whilst i noticed it i brushed it off as just a quirk of the breed (GSD not being overly affectionate dogs)

Great news in that the breeder has already called me. Given me the name and phone number of a vet that specialises in GSD's. I was worrying over nothing with how the breeder would take it. Was nothing but helpful and interested in the problem. Has never heard of this happening before (mum injuring pup tail through stepping). He has suggested could be a problem with a disc, so going to explore that possibility. The vet he has suggested is also familiar with her blood lines, so if there is any issue back through the lines, she will be able to figure that out. So fingers crossed!

GSDS not overly affectionate?? They are companion dogs who bond very strongly to their owners, they are very affectionate. If this isn't the case my GSD is very faulty

[Grey]

i must say tho shelle, and i may just have had a weird pup, skylla bonded very strongly to me, but when she was very young i noticed that she although she greeted and played enthusiastically, she was at least 6 months before i saw her actively wagging her tail when i spoke to her or looked at her etc. was just something i noticed, but by the time i started worrying about it i saw the behaviour presenting itself..

[all that glitters]

i must say tho shelle, and i may just have had a weird pup, skylla bonded very strongly to me, but when she was very young i noticed that she although she greeted and played enthusiastically, she was at least 6 months before i saw her actively wagging her tail when i spoke to her or looked at her etc. was just something i noticed, but by the time i started worrying about it i saw the behaviour presenting itself..

I think mine had a love of life after her major surgery at 3 weeks maybe and found (and STILL finds) every little thing exciting and tailwaggable