Evil Child Spooked My Dog

[KismetKat]

I hate reading posts about kids on here. Some people are so hostile and tar all kids with the same brush. What happened to "blame the deed, not the age group"?

Me too I have 3 boys, they are gentle and loving towards all animals, they have been taught well. I think rather than hate something that makes you uncomfortable why not invite them to pat your dog? Then they will becone animal loving adults rather than fear dogs, most hate comes from fear.

While I understand some kids are downright scary, we were all kids once, and it's not nice to be hated. My dogs are regularly taken to kinders and school to become socialised to children, I hope they remain ok with them as they grow. Mind you I am very watchful that the kids are gently and behave correctly around them.

Hmm, maybe I should add that i dont hate ALL kids (and yes, I actually have one ) But seriously, with the number of downright rude, misbehaved, obnoxious kids out there I find it hard NOT to cringe when I see one. Each to their own, we can't all be all goo goo, la la over kids

I would have moved the dog and stared the little monster down myself.

Spooky kid.

And before anyone gets on the you must hate children ban wagon, I would do exactly the same thing to an adult who was acting the same way.

Adults are a completely different story . Sooo MUCH easier to yell at and put in their place without getting yourself a dirty look from their mummy

What SecretKei said.

I don't "hate" kids" - I have 2 of my own! And after the auction had finished and I had walked clear of most of the crowd two little girls called out "can we pat your dog" and I said "yes" and they very gently met my dog and gave him a cuddle and I asked them if they'd seen Lassie and they hadn't so told them to get their dad (who was standing back a bit) to get the DVD out for them.

But this kid who did the staring... my estimation would be that he's one of those overindulged opiniated little shites (yes, calling out, there's a dangerous dog!" to all and sundry - obviously that kid hadn't seen Lassie either!) who can do no wrong in his parents eyes. By the evil glare (and the length of it) that he gave my dog I would even go so far as to say 'sociopath in the making'. There was definitely something wrong with this kid, and I don't mean any intellectual disability. The kid was mean, pure and simple.

And I was stuck in the middle of a large crowd on the footpath, I couldn't move away mid-auction without causing a ruckus. My dog did turn away from the boy - but that was about as much room as we had to manouver.

And yes, dealing with an adult would have been much easier. That sort of kid has the sort of parent that does not appreciate strangers taking their children to task, however mildly it is done.

I just feel sorry for any future dog this kid stares down that does react.

[Dame Aussie]

The wee freak.....

We were walking the dogs one night when we came past this little boy with his parents, he was about 8, so not that young, and he started screaming and running around (he wasn't scared, he was trying to be funny and work the dogs up) and really freaked Lili out, to the point where she was barking at him.

I told him (and his parents) very loudly that he shouldnt scream and run around strange dogs. Little shit.

[mita]

I think he was getting a bit 'off' in his imagination, in line with his gladiator costume. And bored to bits by the adult event.

To modify a child's behaviour, remove the opportunity & the reward.

Even tho' it was a bit difficult for you, among all the crowd....move to another spot.

[Erny]

Even tho' it was a bit difficult for you, among all the crowd....move to another spot.

Hhhmm .... I think I would have stood in front of my dog and given my evil stare at the kid, refusing to break gaze with him. It usually stupefies them into submission or at least displacement behaviour (well, perhaps not sniffing the ground) .

Edited March 1, 2010 by Erny

[Fit for a King]

KK - if it happens again make sure you have your Smith & Wesson on you - then yell "gun" - when everybody ducks for cover shoot the little bastard. I'm sure the parents could have another....second time they might be lucky and get a nice-un.........(said tongue in cheek but I would have been tempted to knock the little bastard's head off)..........

[mita]

Even tho' it was a bit difficult for you, among all the crowd....move to another spot.

Hhhmm .... I think I would have stood in front of my dog and given my evil stare at the kid, refusing to break gaze with him. It usually stupefies them into submission or at least displacement behaviour (well, perhaps not sniffing the ground) .

I'll have to agree to disagree with you. I find it appalling that a child is being described as 'evil', when he was doing something that children, in their immaturity, do. The 'stare' thing. For an adult to join the child in that behaviour is actually modelling immature behaviour. And to talk about 'stupifying' a child into submission seems to show some fear of what is simply a child....behaving as children do....& needing adults to convey what behaviours are socially acceptable....or not.

Edited March 1, 2010 by mita

[gsdog2]

Me too I have 3 boys, they are gentle and loving towards all animals, they have been taught well. I think rather than hate something that makes you uncomfortable why not invite them to pat your dog? Then they will becone animal loving adults rather than fear dogs, most hate comes from fear.

While I understand some kids are downright scary, we were all kids once, and it's not nice to be hated. My dogs are regularly taken to kinders and school to become socialised to children, I hope they remain ok with them as they grow. Mind you I am very watchful that the kids are gently and behave correctly around them.

I have 3 sons too , so I can understand where you're coming from (they love dogs :D ). On the other hand, I also have three dogs and if a kid's eyeballing one of my dogs in an obviously aggressive manner I'm not going to invite him over to pat them - sorry my dogs are more important to me than a badly behaved child

[spottychick]

I also have three dogs and if a kid's eyeballing one of my dogs in an obviously aggressive manner I'm not going to invite him over to pat them - sorry my dogs are more important to me than a badly behaved child

God no! I wouldn't want someone who is acting oddly and aggressively anywhere near my dogs. Not safe for them or the dogs.

[slk]

Sorry, I hate kids.

Harsh.

[Erny]

Sorry Mita. I didn't mean to offend. Some of the wording I used in that post was more for descriptive drama, so to speak. But, if a child is staring in the manner the OP describes then I still would stand in front of my dog and I still would stare back at the child. There is such a thing as instinctive body language that people do know even if they've not been taught it, and staring back can and often does stop the direct, rude and in this case potentially threatening (to the dog) stare the child was delivering. Of course, it would have been good if the parents were looking out for their child as well and if they were might have taken the opportunity to tell the child not to stare at dogs because dogs can find it threatening. But that didn't happen.

[OzPit]

From what the OP wrote I didn't get the impression this kid was intellectually disabled but of course that would make a difference.

I've worked with Austism Spectrum Disorder children.

The DSM-IV criteria (for Autism, not Rett's, Asperger's, CDD or PDD NOS) outlines areas the children have problems with. Eye contact, obsessive interests, and an inability to read social cues are just a few of them. Many Austistic (again, not Asperger's, Rett's, CDD or PDD NOS) kids also have a permanant "blankness" to their face.

Autism is on the extreme end of the spectrum. Asperger's, Rett's, CDD and PDD NOS are less "intense" than Autism itself but kids with these disorders also struggle to fit in in a world that they do not and can not understand.

"The kid was mean, pure and simple" is a very harsh thing to say, but that might be because I've seen parents struggle for 5 or 6 years with their "evil", "uncontrollable", "vindictive", "nasty" and "weird" children, and then breaking down in tears of relief when they get a diagnosis that explains their child ISN'T any of those things, he/she has just struggled their whole life to live in a world where they can't relate or communicate in a way we see as "normal". Those parents cop abuse every day because their children "misbehave" and because they don't show any outward signs of having a disorder (extremely Autistic kids are the exception) the parents are forced endure society's condescension.

If this child has Down Syndrome, or Cerebral Palsy, you wouldn't dare come on here and call the kid mean or evil, because you would recognise their impairment and would accept it's not their fault. Keep in mind you can't tell an ASD child just from looking at him/her.

[Erny]

What you've written, OzPit, is true and can well be appreciated.

But (fortunately) not all children's behaviour is due to conditions such as those you speak of and are just because they have either learnt to be rude or display unsociable behaviour or not taught not to. For this child's sake, the parents could have kept an eye out and noticed what was occurring in the environment. Some behaviours are for the lack of guidance/teaching by parents. I don't think that I could go around accepting a child's rude/threatening behaviour (on behalf of myself or my dog) just because the child might have a disorder. I'm not sure that's what you were suggesting either. And I think children not only learn through their parents, but also learn through the social responses of individuals within society itself. And, if we were to take my suggestion of "staring back" as an example (only), it is an action that, if making the child feel uncomfortable (and therefore decisting his own) could stand the child in good stead either for that instance and/or for future instances.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Erny

[mita]

Sorry Mita. I didn't mean to offend. Some of the wording I used in that post was more for descriptive drama, so to speak. But, if a child is staring in the manner the OP describes then I still would stand in front of my dog and I still would stare back at the child. There is such a thing as instinctive body language that people do know even if they've not been taught it, and staring back can and often does stop the direct, rude and in this case potentially threatening (to the dog) stare the child was delivering. Of course, it would have been good if the parents were looking out for their child as well and if they were might have taken the opportunity to tell the child not to stare at dogs because dogs can find it threatening. But that didn't happen.

And, my apologies in return, Erny. I came over more as chiding you ....than in making my point. I agree with you that the best solution would have been if the parents could be cautioned about what fixed staring at a dog, could mean for a dog's behaviour.

But, as the OP posted, sadly parents usually don't take kindly to strangers pointing out even the wisest things.

So, given that situation, I'd suggest moving on. Remove that opportunity for the child to continue the behaviour & get his reward for playing out the fierce gladiator & the fierce dog fantasy using one of children's favourite weapons... the stare.

Staring out a child is actually teaching him that it's acceptable social behaviour. And rewards him, by pulling someone else (an adult, no less) into his world.

And a general comment. It's amazing how a child's behaviour.....which isn't all that far out in terms of the normal range of what boys of that age might do...is being put into the context of his maybe being all sorts of things, from 'evil' to 'psychopathic' to having some kind of disability. No, that doesn't make it acceptable behaviour.....particularly for what consequences staring could have, on a dog.

Just a pity, it wasn't a situation where this caution could have been passed on. But it wasn't.

Edited March 2, 2010 by mita

[Erny]

And, my apologies in return, Erny. I came over more as chiding you ....than in making my point.

All is good .

So, given that situation, I'd suggest moving on. Remove that opportunity for the child to continue the behaviour & get his reward for playing out the fierce gladiator & the fierce dog fantasy using one of children's favourite weapons... the stare.

There are times I would agree and I think it really is a 'judgement call'. But if moving away was something the child found reinforcingly empowering, that would only serve to strengthen the behaviour.

Staring out a child is actually teaching him that it's acceptable social behaviour. And rewards him, by pulling someone else (an adult, no less) into his world.

That would depend (again - I think a 'judgement call'). A passive but unwavering stare in return can serve to remove the 'power' a child might be feeling at the time. I'm not talking about 'innocent staring' (there is to my mind a difference and I hope that my descriptive words are sufficient enough to understand what I'm trying to relate), but I am talking about fierce/glaring/threatening stares.

[mita]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, Erny.

My work was educating teachers to be specialist teachers & school guidance counsellors in relation to children with learning & behaviour problems. Having previously taught in the area myself.

There's no way, an adult would be encouraged to engage a child in a staring out contest, initiated by the child. For the reasons already given.

Edited March 2, 2010 by mita

[Dogsfevr]

Well i would have simply moved away.If you chose to take a dog to a large gathering you have to be prepared for things that can go wrong & deal with it.

The minute i felt i was getting blocked in i would have moved anyway because a dog & an auction could lead to something going a stray anyway & still causing a fuss.

The kid may have been a monster he may have been bored out of his mind & playing La la or could have had an issue but either way when we take dogs out in public we have to be prepared for the unexpected .

maybe im more inclined to think that way as i showdogs & im always mindful of dogs & public places

[Erny]

maybe im more inclined to think that way as i showdogs & im always mindful of dogs & public places

I think that way too, Showdog, although I think I have a different mental image of the OP's situation than you or others or maybe I'm imagining a hypothetical of my own ie where the child seeks out the dog to stare at it.

[mantis]

I probably would have told the little shit to stop staring at the dog like that... but I have poor social skills with people... *grin*

T.

Me too, I would have told the little bugger to P off.

[ridgiemum]

Sorry, I hate kids. Especially ones with no manners

Kei is terrified of little kids and if they stare at him before I can re-direct his attention he will let out an almighty bark. Normally this scares the evil little buggers off, but of course the parents tend to glare at me if this happens so we try and avoid it.

If it had of been me I probably would have said something very LOUDLY to this child along the lines of "it's rude to stare" Of course what I'd like to say is "Upset my dog one more time and I will let him eat you" But unfortunately that might get me into a spot of trouble so I have to restrain myself

I like your reply, same thoughts here.

[Crisovar]

The child is a product of parents who have not taught it how to interact with dogs, if that makes a child evil or a monster then we live in very sad society.