Dog Attacking Other Animals

[auir]

Hi all

As i said in the header, not my dog just after some advice for a mate

He has a female entire (is that the right term for a female as well?) staffy x from a BYB which is about 6 months old, unfortunately it has gone after several of there other pets which has not ended well each time. So far a few rabbits and guinea pigs have met there end. The dog has not eaten them but has killed them, tho he does thinks she may have taken a bite out the lastest rabbit since it wasnt whole and now his dog isnt feeling well. He doesnt necessarily want to rehome the dog as he and the kids do like the dog, but he is worried about this behaviour, plus it upsets the kids when they get told there other pets are gone.

Extra info

The rabbits and guinea pigs are kept in hutches, but the dog works out how to open the door / get inside the hutch. The dog is taken for a walk each day and is kept in a decent size backyard. I dont think it has had any vacinations since leaving the BYB at 8 weeks old. No training besides bits and pieces i have been able to pass along to him (eg sit, no jumping up, nipping etc nothing major tho). He was/is worried this could be a trait of the breed or as result of it being a unknown cross breed. Im not sure on this one as i dont know much about staffies or other breeds than my own (border collie), my brother does a have a staffy but does not show any of these signs and is actually unaware to most things besides his rock collection (the dog collects rocks from the beach and then spends his time at home moving his rocks around in piles).

Ive tried using the search function on the forum but didnt really give me any results. just wondering if anyone has any suggestions i can pass on to him to help with the situation.

Anyone got any advice (that is helpful only thank you - sorry i know some are very pasionate and there is a few points in this post which will stir some of those passions) but as i said before just in need of some advice i can pass along to him to try and help the situation.

Cheers

[ellz]

The reality is that some dogs, no matter what the breed, have a high prey drive and ANY movement from a smaller animal will whip them into a frenzy.

Either the containment of the other animals needs to be made stronger, or the dog needs to be kept in an area where it cannot access the smaller animals.

That is the only solution I can offer.

[Paganman]

My dogs would kill rabbits and giunea pigs if they got the chance lots of dogs would.Best thing he can do is fence off the hutches so the dog carnt get to them.The dog needs desexing as well otherwise shes gonna come on heat soon getting her fixed wont srop her getting the pets but itll stop her getting preggers.

Its got nothing to do with the breed small furry pets like these are prey to lots of dogs

Edited March 28, 2010 by Paganman

[Jake-K9]

Apart from rehoming the dog or getting rid of the rabbits/guinea pigs my only suggestion would be to completely deny it access to any of the other pets - fence off a separate section of the yard for them so the dog can't even get near their enclosures. Preferably with some sort of solid fencing so even though the dog will still be able to smell them it won't be able to see them running around and therefor they wont be as big a temptation. Only other options would be using electric fencing (very dangerous for the kids) or an e-collar (very time consuming as the dog will need constant monitoring to teach it to leave the other animals alone).

[Starkehre]

It is quite normal for many many dogs (won't say most, but could well be most) to hunt out and kill small animals if they can. It is not breed specific.

IMO it is not normal for a dog owner to not know or at least realise this after the first one has been killed. Sorry, but I find some owners are very frustrating.

It is wonderful that you want to help this owner and dog and their small pets, but are they likely to listen?

At the very least tell them to completely separate the small animals from the dog. She should not be able to see, hear or smell them as she has a strong prey drive and it will be no end of frustration for her until she kills every single one. Desexing will not alter this behaviour nor will walking. The dog is not being a "bad" dog. It is doing what it's instinct is telling it to do, although of course the behaviour is undesirable.

If they do not wish to separate them, then they must secure their hutches better. If they will not do that, then tell them not to replace their bunnies and g/pigs when they have all been killed.

The owner needs to be made to understand that it is their responsibility to the dog, the small animals and the upset kids to get this situation under control. The dog would not be killing the smallies if she could not get to them. Dogs will be dogs.

Edited March 28, 2010 by dyzney

[darlingdog]

Hi all

As i said in the header, not my dog just after some advice for a mate

He has a female entire (is that the right term for a female as well?) staffy x from a BYB which is about 6 months old, unfortunately it has gone after several of there other pets which has not ended well each time. So far a few rabbits and guinea pigs have met there end. The dog has not eaten them but has killed them, tho he does thinks she may have taken a bite out the lastest rabbit since it wasnt whole and now his dog isnt feeling well. He doesnt necessarily want to rehome the dog as he and the kids do like the dog, but he is worried about this behaviour, plus it upsets the kids when they get told there other pets are gone.

Extra info

The rabbits and guinea pigs are kept in hutches, but the dog works out how to open the door / get inside the hutch. The dog is taken for a walk each day and is kept in a decent size backyard. I dont think it has had any vacinations since leaving the BYB at 8 weeks old. No training besides bits and pieces i have been able to pass along to him (eg sit, no jumping up, nipping etc nothing major tho). He was/is worried this could be a trait of the breed or as result of it being a unknown cross breed. Im not sure on this one as i dont know much about staffies or other breeds than my own (border collie), my brother does a have a staffy but does not show any of these signs and is actually unaware to most things besides his rock collection (the dog collects rocks from the beach and then spends his time at home moving his rocks around in piles).

Ive tried using the search function on the forum but didnt really give me any results. just wondering if anyone has any suggestions i can pass on to him to help with the situation.

Anyone got any advice (that is helpful only thank you - sorry i know some are very pasionate and there is a few points in this post which will stir some of those passions) but as i said before just in need of some advice i can pass along to him to try and help the situation.

Cheers

Well then.........I won't state the bleeding obvious...oh what the heck here goes......a dog is a dog, most of them will chase or kill a small furry pet such as a guinea pig or rabbit. I can't see that this is a problem dog other than the owner is not putting good enough catches on the hutches, there are catches that dogs cannot open not having thumbs and all that !! Hutches should be in a different area to the dog also. Even if dog cannot open the catches can't be very pleasant for small furry creatures to have a dog trying to get in to them. I think it's a management problem rather than a dog problem if the owner is otherwise happy with the dog.

[persephone]

I would not see this a a problem with the PUP - she is a teenager, bored witless, and all those furry squeaky things excite her no end!!She is being a dog .

The owner needs to decide if he wants furry squeaky things , or a pup who needs training and entertainment which doesn't involve small animals .

if he wants both- then the hutches will need to be fenced off, or made out of dog proof materials.

[sas]

My dogs would also kill small animals such as Rabbits if given half the chance.

Sounds like pretty standard behaviour from a dog (yes, I know some dogs live just fine with small animals)

I'd be telling the Owner to make the hutches much more secure.

[Miranda]

The dog is behaving normally, I don't have any small pets, but I'm 100% sure that if I brought one into my yard all my dogs would become totally obsessed with killing it. Dogs are predators regardless of breed and these small animals are their natural prey.

[ellz]

The dog is behaving normally, I don't have any small pets, but I'm 100% sure that if I brought one into my yard all my dogs would become totally obsessed with killing it. Dogs are predators regardless of breed and these small animals are their natural prey.

Mine are opportunists too...they quite happily tolerate cats etc wandering around amongst them....but put a cat in a crate for whatever reason and the crate becomes the object of attention immediately and the dogs aren't at all gentle with their nose-nudging either!

[auir]

Hi All

Thanks for the feedback, i was thinking that was more so the case some dogs just dont get along with other pets. Wasnt sure if there was any desensitising (cannt spell) training he could suggest and hopefully he try. And thank you for answering the question, i was worried that i would get attitude since other animals had been killed and some would take that negatively.

dyzney - yup that was my advice so far, not replace the rabbits or guinea pigs, he had been getting new rabbits and guinea pigs after each incident hoping things would get better. In regards to listening? hmm doubt it, been asking for a while how did the pup go with vaccinations, registration, training but nothing happens. But i guess that comes down to we all keep our pets differently.

darlingdog - similar suggestion so far, i said maybe get some weather proof padlocks for the hutches that way no one can one the door accidently and let them out without you being around (ie incase the kids want to play with the rabbit or guinea pigs) plus the dog wouldnt be able to get through the opening

Thanks to all that replied

Edited March 28, 2010 by auir

[tlc]

All good common sense adivce so far, is there any way you can talk your mate into taking the dog to an obedience school, perhaps a bit more structure and training for the dog and take it's attention elsewhere might be benificial. The kids could be involved in the training as well.

[tlc]

I don't think it is that in some cases some dogs just dont get along with other pets. It is that dogs are prey animals and it is thier instinct to seek out prey and chase kill etc..... The other thing about better locks on the hutches will only stop the dog getting at the smaller animals it wont stop the dog from going around the outside of the cage and this in itslef can be distressing to rabbits guinea pigs etc.... Only with some intensive training this may be rectified but even then maybe not. One of my girls every time we go to SIL place she heads right for the rabbit hutch and rounds the cage, she has to be left on lead when we go there cause everything we have tried with her nothing works!!

[Nekhbet]

all dogs have prey drive to some degree. It is the drive to chase, catch and in some instances kill. Since the dog now finds it so rewarding it will keep at trying to enter the cages so there are 2 options

1) completely separate dog and small animals permanently

2) find a good trainer who will do some training and e-collar work with the dog

it wont just stop on its own

[poodlefan]

My honest advice would be to make a decision:

Small pets or a dog.

I'm picturing the level of frustration this dog is feeling wanting to obey its predatory instinct and being thwarted. Constant levels of frustration are not a good thing.

I'm also picturing the stress the small pets are under with a dog constantly stalking them. Also not good.

Either he needs to provide an non-see through, very secure barrier to the small pets or some hard decisions need to be made.

Honestly, what did he think would happen?

Edited March 28, 2010 by poodlefan

[Starkehre]

I don't think it is that in some cases some dogs just dont get along with other pets. It is that dogs are prey animals and it is thier instinct to seek out prey and chase kill etc..... The other thing about better locks on the hutches will only stop the dog getting at the smaller animals it wont stop the dog from going around the outside of the cage and this in itslef can be distressing to rabbits guinea pigs etc.... Only with some intensive training this may be rectified but even then maybe not. One of my girls every time we go to SIL place she heads right for the rabbit hutch and rounds the cage, she has to be left on lead when we go there cause everything we have tried with her nothing works!!

Exactly. What tlc says.

SEPARATE SAPARATE SEPARATE

Training may help, but I seriously doubt it as it would have to be serious intense with much follow through. I get the impression this guy has no idea.

If the dog finds she cannot open the hutch, she will probably attempt to destroy it, or paw the critters through the wire, I have seen it done.

Either way, it is cruel for the critters to have to sit there in the yard and wonder if they are going to be killed whilst the dog is biting at the cage if she starts doing that. They can easily go into shock and die anyway.

Perhaps let the guy know that what he is doing is cruel to the small animals, the dog and the kids and maybe that will touch on a nerve.

Yes train the dog, yes walk the dog, yes desex her, yes vaccinate her, yes register her with the council, but none of these things will alter the level of prey drive in the dog. Each time she is rewarded with another successful kill, her drive will no doubt be increasing, so in affect, the owner is setting her up and training her to be a very efficient killer. Replacing those animals is supplying her with more drive satisfaction.

Edited March 28, 2010 by dyzney

[ILK]

I agree with the advice given. I think your friend needs to use common sense and be sure the dog can't get to the smaller animals.

It is not fair to anyone that this is occurring. I can see the awful cycle here which is - dog tormenting then killing smaller animal, children getting upset that one of their pets is gone, dog getting in to trouble for behaving negatively.

I find it concerning that from you post this has occurred on more than one occasion. This needs to be corrected asap. My dog would spend all day trying to get into smaller pet cages if he had access. What a fun game that would be for him.

[Guest Willow]

If the dog was killing cats, or other dogs, would your friend take it more seriously? He needs to understand that that "just" because they are rabbits or guinea pigs, this situation can't continue.

I have a Staffy and an SWF) that live comfortably with free range & indoor rabbits, but we have been very lucky with our dogs, and they had virtually no prey drive at all when they came to live with us. No desensitisation was needed.

I think it will be hard for him to change the behaviour now that the dog has discovered what a fun game it is to break into the hutch & chase bunnies. Especially since you have said he seems relatively disinterested in doing much in the way of even basic training. This behaviour won't just stop on it;s own....the dog has been rewarded too many times for it. It's not the dogs fault....some have more prey drive than others.

Personally, if this was me, I would not replace the animals that had been killed, and I would make it IMPOSSIBLE for the dog to get to the remaining small pets. I would build a special shed or Fort Knox style enclosure, and not even allow the dog to see the small animals.

Just the sight of the dog could cause severe stress for the smallies, and he has to take into account the feelings of all animals, and his kids.

[mumof3]

It has mostly been said, except this (from my brief reading of the thread).

This behaviour may have possibly been prevented with the right approach during the stage of puppyhood where this dog develops her prey drive. However, this opportunity has obviously past, and while she was at the stage of developing her prey drive, some nice furry animals existed in a pretty easy to get at cage and she was able to explore and satisfy her prey drive, ingraining the behaviour by doing it several times, and being rewarded by the provision of more prey in the cage. I really doubt anything can be done about this ingrained behaviour now, and think that getting rid of the small animals, at least for a long period of time, is the best answer.

[auir]

If the dog was killing cats, or other dogs, would your friend take it more seriously?

Willow i have taken my friend seriously hence the post, trying to get some advice for him. So i dont understand what your snide little remark is about?

Time to hope of the high horse mate. I was asking others for advice so i dont see how that is not taking the matter serious. Sorry my bad, didnt read correctly and in a bad mood today, only read your post after a crappy meeting.

He does feel bad about the situation hence he was talking about it and asking my advice, i had none besides getting padlocks and not replacing the animals. I dont understand completely why the animls have been replaced, if it was me then i would not be replacing them, i have given up on trees myself, but i would assume it would in attempt to cheer the kids back up - yes i know very negative cycle.

Edited March 29, 2010 by auir