Bsl

[animalia]

When I was reading a recent post that listed the breeds of dogs that have been banned in both state law and local councils to prevent (i am assuming) dog attacks/aggression and make their state/council a safer place I thought I might give them a hand and revise the current BSL, I know that mine WILL stop attacks/ aggressive behaviour from ALL breeds of dogs not just those who have been condemned.

My List I might warn doesn't include ANY of the current breeds or characteristic that a dog has to have to be registered as a restricted breed, some might think that my list is a bit radical. There is only one breed covered in this list. Here it is -

The Revised version-

Restricted breeds of HUMANS in relation to the welfare of dogs and those in the community-

1. Those who sell dogs for profit

2. Those who sell dogs without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

3. Those who sell breeds of dogs to people who don't meet that particular breeds all round requirements, e.g. exercise

requirements, training

4. Those who sell dogs that are in poor condition

5. Those who sell dogs that have come from a puppy farm

6. Businesses who hire staff for their sales knowledge NOT for their knowledge of dogs

7. Breeders who ONLY breed for the all mighty dollar

8. Breeders who sell puppies without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

9. Breeders who breed dogs with compromised temperaments

10. Breeders who breed dogs with health/hereditary problems

11. Breeders who don't know that much about dogs or appropriate breeding practices, but still breed

12. Breeders who breed only for "looks" and not temperament

13. Breeders who don't screen prospective buyers to see if they suit the breed

14. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs, and breed them for profit

15. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and keep them crated the whole of their life

16. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and breed female dogs every season starting with their

first season

17. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't socialise the puppies whilst in their care

18. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't temperament check breeding dogs

19. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't health check their breeding dogs

20. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and educate prospective buyers

21. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't screen prospective buyers

22. Dog owners that didn't do any research into what breed would suit their life style (ignorance is no excuse)

23. Dog owners who don't socialise their puppies in their critical period and on wards

24. Dog owners who want to fulfill their ego and buy a "TUFF" breed of dog

25. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible pet shops

26. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible breeders

27. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible establishments

28. Dog owners who don't train their dogs either in obedience and or manners

29. Dog owners who put other people and animals in danger through irresponsible actions E.g letting their unsocialised dog

off lead in public

30. The media for spouting a whole lot of crap about dogs and individual breeds

31. CEOs of large welfare organisations (no names) condemning breeds and putting fear into the public

32. Local councils and state law focusing on condemning breeds of dogs and not condemning those who are FULLY responsible- People who fit into one or more of the above categories

All of the above will help produce healthy, happy, stable dogs that are well looked after (mentally and physically) through the breeding, the selling and owning stages of its life.

Remember that genes, socialisation starting when the dog is just weeks old and having owners that exercise and train the dog are extremely important. I don't know where you could go wrong if these areas are done right with any breed?

What does everyone think? will the above BSL sort everything out or not? If you wish you can make additions or take something out.

I do want to make it clear I support breeders, pet shops, councils, and people in general who are responsible and are in it for the dogs.

Edited May 29, 2010 by animalia

[ZBC]

When I was reading a recent post that listed the breeds of dogs that have been banned in both state law and local councils to prevent (i am assuming) dog attacks/aggression and make their state/council a safer place I thought I might give them a hand and revise the current BSL, I know that mine WILL stop attacks/ aggressive behaviour from ALL breeds of dogs not just those who have been condemned.

My List I might warn doesn't include ANY of the current breeds or characteristic that a dog has to have to be registered as a restricted breed, some might think that my list is a bit radical. There is only one breed covered in this list. Here it is -

The Revised version-

Restricted breeds of HUMANS in relation to the welfare of dogs and those in the community-

1. Those who sell dogs for profit

2. Those who sell dogs without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

3. Those who sell breeds of dogs to people who don't meet that particular breeds all round requirements, e.g. exercise

requirements, training

4. Those who sell dogs that are in poor condition

5. Those who sell dogs that have come from a puppy farm

6. Businesses who hire staff for their sales knowledge NOT for their knowledge of dogs

7. Breeders who ONLY breed for the all mighty dollar

8. Breeders who sell puppies without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

9. Breeders who breed dogs with compromised temperaments

10. Breeders who breed dogs with health/hereditary problems

11. Breeders who don't know that much about dogs or appropriate breeding practices, but still breed

12. Breeders who breed only for "looks" and not temperament

13. Breeders who don't screen prospective buyers to see if they suit the breed

14. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs, and breed them for profit

15. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and keep them crated the whole of their life

16. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and breed female dogs every season starting with their

first season

17. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't socialise the puppies whilst in their care

18. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't temperament check breeding dogs

19. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't health check their breeding dogs

20. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and educate prospective buyers

21. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't screen prospective buyers

22. Dog owners that didn't do any research into what breed would suit their life style (ignorance is no excuse)

23. Dog owners who don't socialise their puppies in their critical period and on wards

24. Dog owners who want to fulfill their ego and buy a "TUFF" breed of dog

25. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible pet shops

26. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible breeders

27. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible establishments

28. Dog owners who don't train their dogs either in obedience and or manners

29. Dog owners who put other people and animals in danger through irresponsible actions E.g letting their unsocialised dog

off lead in public

30. The media for spouting a whole lot of crap about dogs and individual breeds

31. CEOs of large welfare organisations (no names) condemning breeds and putting fear into the public

32. Local councils and state law focusing on condemning breeds of dogs and not condemning those who are FULLY responsible- People who fit into one or more of the above categories

All of the above will help produce healthy, happy, stable dogs that are well looked after (mentally and physically) through the breeding, the selling and owning stages of its life.

Remember that genes, socialisation starting when the dog is just weeks old and having owners that exercise and train the dog are extremely important. I don't know where you could go wrong if these areas are done right with any breed?

What does everyone think? will the above BSL sort everything out or not? If you wish you can make additions or take something out.

I do want to make it clear I support breeders, pet shops, councils, and people in general who are responsible and are in it for the dogs.

............................................................

...

Well done on all that thinking and typing!

However, are you sure there would be anyone left to become a dog owner?

Fewer people allowed to own means inevitably fewer dogs!

But the black market in dogs and underground trading/ using would grow no doubt.

Nevertheless I agree with your underlying premise-- responsible DOG ownership really enforced would be superior to any form of BSL

Edited April 24, 2010 by ZBC

[Robbi]

I agree whole heartedly with your list and I will be the first to join you on your campaign for PSL (people specific legislation)

It will be unfortunate if we cull the occasional innocent person but it will be for the greater good and their families can buy a more socialised, dog friendly person once they get over the trauma of having a loved family member taken away and euthanased for failing the 20 point test as to whether they are an iresponsible dog owner

[moosmum]

With so few dogs/owners left,they would be a rare and novel species. None could be taken out in public with out being in danger of peoples reaction to them causing more trouble again.

Little kids either running away screaming or treating them like fluffy toys,adults grabbing their kids away,abuse and threats from people no longer able to see a companion,only a "dirty animal"in public.

I think serious education as part of school ciriculum is the only way,and should be started asap.

[animalia]

I agree that a program should be undertaken in schools and I am always saying this to my sister who is a primary school teacher and animal lover. She agrees something needs to be done as well as she can see that clearly her students really don't care about animals because they haven't been exposed to them in a positive way by their parents. I think that it's also up to anyone or any business that sells dogs/animals to provide sufficient amount of information to prospective buyers so that they walk away knowing how to look after the dog in all aspects : - socialisation, training, health etc, OR give them names of people who can help them along the way so that both dog and human live happily ever after.

I think the genetics, socialisation, training, exercise and owner knowledge can minimise the incidents of dog problems in the community.

I don't want less dogs being owned I want more educated/responsible people

[steve11]

When I was reading a recent post that listed the breeds of dogs that have been banned in both state law and local councils to prevent (i am assuming) dog attacks/aggression and make their state/council a safer place I thought I might give them a hand and revise the current BSL, I know that mine WILL stop attacks/ aggressive behaviour from ALL breeds of dogs not just those who have been condemned.

My List I might warn doesn't include ANY of the current breeds or characteristic that a dog has to have to be registered as a restricted breed, some might think that my list is a bit radical. There is only one breed covered in this list. Here it is -

The Revised version-

Restricted breeds of HUMANS in relation to the welfare of dogs and those in the community-

1. Those who sell dogs for profit

2. Those who sell dogs without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

3. Those who sell breeds of dogs to people who don't meet that particular breeds all round requirements, e.g. exercise

requirements, training

4. Those who sell dogs that are in poor condition

5. Those who sell dogs that have come from a puppy farm

6. Businesses who hire staff for their sales knowledge NOT for their knowledge of dogs

7. Breeders who ONLY breed for the all mighty dollar

8. Breeders who sell puppies without educating the prospective buyer in regards to the breed

9. Breeders who breed dogs with compromised temperaments

10. Breeders who breed dogs with health/hereditary problems

11. Breeders who don't know that much about dogs or appropriate breeding practices, but still breed

12. Breeders who breed only for "looks" and not temperament

13. Breeders who don't screen prospective buyers to see if they suit the breed

14. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs, and breed them for profit

15. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and keep them crated the whole of their life

16. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and breed female dogs every season starting with their

first season

17. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't socialise the puppies whilst in their care

18. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't temperament check breeding dogs

19. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't health check their breeding dogs

20. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and educate prospective buyers

21. Establishments that have tens/hundreds of breeding pairs of dogs and don't screen prospective buyers

22. Dog owners that didn't do any research into what breed would suit their life style (ignorance is no excuse)

23. Dog owners who don't socialise their puppies in their critical period and on wards

24. Dog owners who want to fulfill their ego and buy a "TUFF" breed of dog

25. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible pet shops

26. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible breeders

27. Dog owners who buy from irresponsible establishments

28. Dog owners who don't train their dogs either in obedience and or manners

29. Dog owners who put other people and animals in danger through irresponsible actions E.g letting their unsocialised dog

off lead in public

30. The media for spouting a whole lot of crap about dogs and individual breeds

31. CEOs of large welfare organisations (no names) condemning breeds and putting fear into the public

32. Local councils and state law focusing on condemning breeds of dogs and not condemning those who are FULLY responsible- People who fit into one or more of the above categories

All of the above will help produce healthy, happy, stable dogs that are well looked after (mentally and physically) through the breeding, the selling and owning stages of its life.

Remember that genes, socialisation starting when the dog is just weeks old and having owners that exercise and train the dog are extremely important. I don't know where you could go wrong if these areas are done right with any breed?

What does everyone think? will the above BSL sort everything out or not? If you wish you can make additions or take something out.

I do want to make it clear I support breeders, pet shops, councils, and people in general who are responsible and are in it for the dogs.

& so say all of us...

[sandgrubber]

I was a utopian when I was younger. I'm more cynical now. Will the councils recruit and pay and hold on to rangers with enough power to enforce what you advocate?

[mita]

As it's people specific legislation (a damn good idea)...the rangers that enforce it, should be dogs.

Could provide retirement jobs for police dogs.

I thought Robbi's post said it all.

[sandgrubber]

I'm not going far into your long list. I do not worshop the market mechanism but find it hard to find a better way to regulate economic transactions. In my experience, 'solve everything' solutions are . . .put it in german ... quatsch.

But Jezus K-Rist. Are you saying that it's not ok to make a profit on selling pups at some minor profit if you do reasonable screening on health and temperament. Breeders are providing a product. Hopefully, healthy dogs of predictable temperament. They deserve to earn at least minimum wage for all the time spent and some bonus for absorbing the many risks you take when you breed a dog or provide guarantees on the pups sold.

No wonder the DD people are running laps around the pedigree breeders.

When I was reading a recent post that listed the breeds of dogs that have been banned in both state law and local councils to prevent (i am assuming) dog attacks/aggression and make their state/council a safer place I thought I might give them a hand and revise the current BSL, I know that mine WILL stop attacks/ aggressive behaviour from ALL breeds of dogs not just those who have been condemned.

My List I might warn doesn't include ANY of the current breeds or characteristic that a dog has to have to be registered as a restricted breed, some might think that my list is a bit radical. There is only one breed covered in this list. Here it is -

The Revised version-

Restricted breeds of HUMANS in relation to the welfare of dogs and those in the community-

1. Those who sell dogs for profit

Edited May 4, 2010 by sandgrubber

[spottychick]

Hmmm yes, I agree there's a problem with the statement "those who sell dogs for profit" although I know what you meant.

It's not about "profit" - it's about greed. I see no problem with responsible breeders making some money from breeding puppies. Perhaps we just need to refine that bit! :cool:

Also, re "the owners" I'd add "owners who keep dogs tied up for weeks on end in the backyard" or "owners who don't feed their dogs a decent diet" or owners who beat up their dogs..... actually the list could go on. Maybe there's a better way to say this that covers a range of serious owner sins!

But your list would exclude me from owning dogs too.

I didn't research dalmatians as the "best breed for me" before I bought them - I just met one and loved him so I got one of my own. Six dalmatians later and I'm still getting dallys.

But one of them I bought from a crappy irresponsible BYB when she was only 6 weeks old. Why? Because I'd met the puppies previously when a friend took me to see them to distract me from my grief over losing my mum. A couple of weeks later someone told me one of the puppies had died when a horse stepped on it. The breeder had been leaving these tiny pups alone all day in an open yard with horses, goats etc with no thought to their welfare. Fortunately, they had all been bought and moved away (even tho they were very young!!!) from there except the one I'd been most taken with - a gorgeous girl with a V shaped dot pattern on her head who I had nicknamed Venus. The lady I spoke to thought Venus was in danger of going the way of the other puppy. I had to get her out of there - so I offered to "look after her" and then eventually bought her - known to everyone now as 'Pepper'.

So, yeah I agree with others here - perhaps that bit needs some work!

Great idea tho

[animalia]

I don't have any problems with breeders making a profit, it just needs to come secondary to doing whats right for the dog and the breed.

I know the list maybe a bit over the top and not perfect, but the point of the list is to outline that irresponsible people are the problem not any particular breed such as the APBT

i feel at the moment the ideaology of local/state law and various other prominant stakeholders such as the main voice for the RSPCA, think that curing the problem of "aggression" in some dog breeds is to ban and destroy them. I think that prevention is the key, so this means more regulation AND education is needed in regards to the breeding, selling and purchasing of dogs.

APBT if they have a good genetic makeup, appropriate socilisation in critical period and onwards, training through out life and boundries, excersice and owner knowledge like any other breed under the same circumstances they will be a fabulous dog.

Again I am NOT against breeders, only irresponsible breeders.

Edited May 5, 2010 by animalia

[sandgrubber]

I'm about to move to Santa Cruz County, California. I like their general framework of dog management. Manditory desexing . . . not breed specific . . . people who want to keep entire dogs/bitches can get permits, but this requires an annual vet check and a clean record re dogs wandering, aggression, various complaints, etc. Various programs to support low-cost desexing. Rather weak policing (like most of California, the government is on the brink of bankruptcy) . . . but police powers likely to come on line if there are serious infringements. Petshops can't sell puppies.

Edited May 5, 2010 by sandgrubber

[mita]

Hmmm yes, I agree there's a problem with the statement "those who sell dogs for profit" although I know what you meant.

Yes, I also assumed it meant that the single reason for breeding & selling dogs, was to make a profit.

[Adnil444]

Hi, agree, but with everything in this life, how would it ever be policed/enforced. There is no licence or laws for humans to stop creating our future adults and look at many of them. Should never have been allowed to breed in the first place.

The problem is that everytime we hear or read about another dog attack, the general public want "blood" - they want something done to stop this. Councils and governments have to be seen to do something and since they cannot ban people from owning dogs or specific breeds, they do the only thing that is available to them - ban the breed/s that are in the headlines. They are taking the same approach to the gun buyback program - the less guns out in the community, the less gun related deaths/injuries/crime that there will be - it worked to a degree, though I'm sure the criminals of society still have the guns, just like the undesirables now will own the banned breeds for all the wrong reasons. The people on these forums are not the average joe-blow that we are trying to reach. We all care, love, devoted, and I'm assuming responsible dog owners.

We do need tougher laws and enforcement and education. But you only have to look at the on-line ads, classifieds etc to see that no matter what you try and do, there are pages and pages of puppies out there, many who will be sold to homes that are not suitable and many will end up in trouble with the law, in pounds, dumped etc.

I wish we could eradicate the byb - and you could only purchase a dog from a registered breeder, who provided you with all the correct information on that breed, and the buyer had to guarantee a certain amount of training, socialisation, care etc etc. The only other place to get a dog would be from the pound/rescue organisations. These dogs would be temp tested, desexed etc.

Would love to know the answer and one that could be enforced.

[moosmum]

Dogs started their development alside man and have been left behind with modern advaces that make them mostly superfluous.

They are not a kown quantity taken for granted as part of our lives any more.

Too many have very little understanding of dogs as a species and have become intolerant and ignorant.

I believe education in starting in Primary school as part of school cirriculum is needed.

Educate kids from the start on dogs- How to safely behave around them,their needs,why breed characteristics are important to consider,care and welfare.

Where to go for help with problems and training,why socialisation and responsibility is needed.

get kids interacting with dogs,seeing their abilities and what they have still to offer us if done responsibly....Then take the kids to the shelter to see the other side of the coin!

And rather than legislate against dogs,educate society and enforce the laws we have,which should be edquate.

Many nasty attacks could be avoided if people had a better understanding and empathy with the species we grew with.

We have all these movies about meeting and interacting with alien species and cant even manage the ones we evolved with!

Its not complicated,its not hard,it benefits every one from the dogs to their owners and non-owners.It just needs people to start demading -No more legislation with 1st education.