Tangles And Grooming

[flux]

Hi all,

I own a year old rough collie and thought I was doing well until last night. I have been brushing her about once to twice a week, and have been trying to educate myself on the best methods, having only been around Border Collies (whom didn't have thick fur) I was amased to learn you could brush a dog against the lay of the coat! Last night our wonderful Jazz stank of chicken poop and who-knows-what so we thought we would give her a bath. We have done this many times before, as we have been trying to get her used to it as a puppy, having been warned about the amount of grooming they require. I considered brushing her before the bath but thought that the water, rub down, shampoo and dry would actually get out a lot of dead fur, so I didn't. Bath went well (a continual learning experience for all involved) and pup dried well - until I noticed that almost every inch of her REALLY underfur (I think I have counted 4 types of fur on her thus far) seemed very thick. I felt around and was shocked to find this close underfur was in fact matted. I sat her down with a fresh bone and gently tried to tease out some of the matts with i think, a pin brush. Normally I groom her with (sorry for lack of lingo) a square looking brush full of fine and bent metal bristles, this drags out her underfur, and use the pin brush to go a once over once I'm done. This teasing process wasn't effective, as I spent the best part of an hour trying to tease out a patch on her rump about the size of hand with no success. Jazz was good natured about it but it clearly wasn't comfortable for her, so I didn't continue. I tried to ascertain what has happened as we had done nothing different bathing wise. I thought it looked like there was dead fur clinging to "good" fur, as if the dead fur was just too plentiful to have been washed out and got caught half way - perhaps the rubbing from drying tangled it. I've called one groomer a friend recommended, but who is not open on a Monday, and I'm going to take poor jazz straight to her asap. I have assumed that up until now I have been ignorant about just how much grooming fluffy breeds need. I think because winter is ending and she is all grown up with a full coat, I just completely have underestimated the coat and the shedding - still at the same time I care a lot about her and have been brushing her at least once a week since her coat bloomed on her. I would love to know what has happened here, tips for grooming and advice on grooming. I think I must really have the wrong end of the stick on HOW to groom her correctly. It is so awful to feel under her fur and feel all these tangles, and I'm sure it's really unpleasant for her :laugh: I am now assuming the groomer will clip her and am a bit worried about jazz being too cold? Is it too early to clip at this time of year? I am in Canberra. Also, can anyone recommend a great groomer in Canberra? Thanks heaps everyone for the advice.

[Guest DBT]

first of all relax and take a deep breath.....any groomer worth their badge will NOT need to clip your dog!. Double coats are a relatively easy fix, even with plenty of dead shedding hair packed in there......

try Chris at PoodleAntics, i'll PM the details

Edited August 22, 2010 by DBT

[shmoo]

Do not let a groomer clip her!!!!!

Talk to the groomer about what you have been doing and ask for advice. The groomer will be able to demonstrate the different equipment and ways to brush. Her coat will also be changing slightly due to loosing her puppy coat (which can be easier to manage than the adult coat)

[Crazy Daisy]

There should be no need to clip the coat. If there are any dreads that are way way too matted they could possibly be cut out with scissors (but I think you would have noticed them). It may be nicer to your dog if you get the groomer to do it in two sessions so she doesn't stress too much.

Make sure once she is knot free that you brush her everytime before a bath. If you can get a poodle comb (metal comb with long teeth) this is the best way to make sure her back end stays tangle free.

I hope all goes well.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Crazy Daisy

[Tenties]

You shouldnt have to clip her, the groomer will most likely use a matt splitter to cut the matt into smaller matts to remove them... in future NEVER wash her without brushing all knots and tangles out of the coat as washing will set the knots and clumps and make the job worse than what it would have been..

[Dogsfevr]

As a groomer we wouldn't clip off by choice BUT if the mats are so bad then no groomer will get them out because the pain to the dog is not pleasant.

We have had to clip 2 RC off & they came off like a sheep as one piece & no matt breaker would have got through it & we wont put dogs through a certain level of pain to remove bad knots.

Are you using the tools the breeder recommended??

Most collies with will brush out easy with the right gear & patience,

Don't bath the dog as it sets the mats worse.

A good groomer would be able to tell you what they can /can;t do & what it will cost which may not be cheap

[shells]

Please be careful about which groomer you pick as I found out the hard way there are some real cowboys around in Canberra. I have used Shampooch in Kambah and was extremely happy but I do have poodles so their grooming needs are different. I would try calling Kylie as she is very knowledgeble.

[flux]

I'm just about off to bed - but I just wanted to say a massive thank you to everyone!! I was going to book her in for a clip first thing tomorrow!! Thank you so much, her matting is not bad at all. I've seen worst muddy dreadlocks on the side of a lower ear of a border collie before! I'm going to try some tips and see how I go, Jazz and I owe you all a really big thank you - will def post updates and will arrange a meeting with a local groomer for a chat! :p

[Rascalmyshadow]

Collies are quite easy to groom out even thick undercoat. To make the job as easy as possible, wash her again with a good shampoo and then condition well especially in the matted areas. Dry with a force dryer brushing at the same time. Comb and rake through to finish.

I have use this method on many double coated breeds over the years and it works wonders.

[dancinbcs]

Collies are quite easy to groom out even thick undercoat. To make the job as easy as possible, wash her again with a good shampoo and then condition well especially in the matted areas. Dry with a force dryer brushing at the same time. Comb and rake through to finish.

I have use this method on many double coated breeds over the years and it works wonders.

With matted coats, I find combing through with a wide toothed comb useful when the conditioner is on in the bath. Start at the ends of the hair and work your way up towards the skin a little at a time. Diluted conditioner or a specific detangler, sprayed on a dry coat is also useful for grooming out tangles. Never try to detangle a completely dry coat. Always dampen with some sort of conditioner.

Never rub a long coated dog with a towel to dry. Use the towel to squeeze the water out of the coat, or better still invest in a force dryer.

A mat splitting rake will groom out most Collies no matter how neglected the coat is but for future reference always brush from the back of the dog to the front in layers down to the skin. Lift the coat and brush a layer in the direction it grows, let a little more coat settle and brush that, gradually working in layers towards the front. It sounds like you have just been brushing the topcoat and not getting down to the skin.

Collies have a lot of coat but are usually pretty easy to groom.

[kirst_goldens]

LINE BRUSHING LINE BRUSHING LINE BRUSHING!!

Ask ur groomer to demonstrate - im not great at explaining stuff hahaha but if u ask them to teach u to line brush and show u what tools are best then u will be able to manage it easy

[Patters]

This is your pup's first major coat drop. It will usually take 2-3 baths and "effective" grooming to clear this old undercoat out. As dancinbcs said, A wide-tooth comb (I find the horse mane'n'tail combs the best for this) of the conditioner through the wet coat from ends back to skin first, before rinsing. And then the same over every inch as you dry. I also find it better if you train your dog to lay down on her side for this, not standing. I personally did not find "brushing" removes the dropped coat that sits almost on the skin.

Lacey aged 13 years RIP

Edited August 23, 2010 by Patters

[Natsu chan]

Flux you're more than welcome to pm me if you need some help. Jazz is getting the adult coat in and dropping the baby coat, that's why it all seems so so much! If you start at the tail and groom in layers it will all come out, I promise. If worse comes to worse you can use a rake to slit up any really bad areas but it's it's only a small area you can us a comb. Everything will be fine don't worry, collie coats aren't difficult it's just knowing how. And you've learnt your first lesson never ever bath without grooming first! Remember what I said about the spray bottle? That will help detangle too.

I can take a video with my camera to show you how to groom out the undercoat if you like. The Collie club of NSW sell a dvd on grooming collies if you want something a bit more through.

[flux]

Oh thanks so much again everyone! The penny that has dropped in my head is still ringing in my ears! Thankyou thankyou thankyou thankyou!! I'm going to go out and grab some utensils, new shampoo and conditioner. I'm slightly relieved that this is a relatively normal mistake, I was quite distressed that I had completely ruined her through utter ignorance. Thank goodness I posted on here. Thank you all so much again. We are off to a groomer today to chat, but I am determined to fix most of this myself and learn up!! I think I'm going to have to promise a few play dates with some doggy buddies for an entire week to make it up to Jazz. I am also going to look into that Dvd Natsu, thanks for your offer Will post more updates soon!

[flux]

No Good. I feel like too much of a novice. Can't seem to find any groomers open today but have left messages with a few for tomorrow. Went out a bought a new slick brush and a new greyhound (?) wide tooth comb + plus new shampoo and conditioner. We are not tempted to bathe her again, so we opted for the diluted conditioner in a spray bottle option and have been trying to tease out matts all afternoon. Needless to point out the dog and I are now slightly tired, with very little result and much fidgeting and protesting from jazz. She is now chomping on a dried roo tail as a reward for her patience, but I am really hoping I can get her to a groomers tomorrow, I don't think I'm doing a very good job. Thanks again for all the wise words, I'll keep updating.

[Natsu chan]

Flux don't loose heart there is a knack to it. Try running your hand down to her pants and then push the whole lot up towards her back then gently start combing a small amount down towards the ground at a time. It will take awhile but it will be much easier on both of you and perhaps look into getting an undercoat rake. They really are usefully when this happens.

Don't be too hard on yourself, it's all a learning curve!

[nynka]

Don't worry, it is just her biggest coat drop ever - changing her puppy coat over to an adult coat. It does happen quickly and it is shocking if you weren't expecting it. The bonus is that when her coat grows back it will be her adult coat and easier to groom. It happens with all double coated breeds and if you get through this, you will handle the rest of the grooming with no troubles in the future.

Good luck, I'm sure she will look much smaller when all that coat is groomed out, but it will grow back to its former glory.

And there is no need to clip her.

[becks]

most groomers work saturdays, so we tend to be closed on Mondays and Sundays. You may not be able to get her booked in with a groomer for a few days or week or so, depending on how busy they are with regular clients. However, you should be able to book in a bit of time for a chat and a quick demo on how to groom out.

[OSoSwift]

I groomed a Rough that had not been brushed for ages and sges. She had heaps of dead coat that had matted in. I used a slicker brush, detangling spray and started backwards and groomed forwards layer by layer. It did take around 4 hours in total and the dog was less than half the size she cam in, but the coat was suprisingly easy to remove. It wasn't dreadlocks just caught up hair.

I hope you find someone soon to give you a hand, don't clip her off though.

[Linda K]

good luck, and as others have already said, the one thing to do before bathing is to make sure there are no tangles - washing will only pull the knots tighter and make them harder to get out. I have a Persian cat, and I swear he can knot up at the drop of a hat, and at first I was not grooming him right down to the skin, the comb I was using was too wide a tooth, and was just going through the top f the coat only and not down to the bottom layer, but with a slightly smaller tooth comb and slightly different technique, it is amazing how much comes out each day (and how much you need to stay on top of it), so can only imagine yor girl is the same sort of thing. Hopefully you can get that appointment soon, and be back on best terms with your girl.