Puppy Farm Awareness Rally

[ohh la la]

just been to my local pms office..got print out of what the will be doing to stop rogue puppy farm operators .hope full you guys can veiw at www.tedbaillieu.com.au ....unlike jon helper who all so whats to restrict vca memers to same rules as puppy farms.who dont health test ..

[oakway]

Bump

Come on people are you going to let the animal libbers get away with including Registered Ethical Breeders in this presentation to the Government.

Where will you go for your beautiful pets when all breeding has been closed down.

Registered Ethical breeders were not specifically excluded from this bill.

Again I ask where will you go to purchase healthy genetically tested dogs from, if we the registered breeders, and I mean registered with the Controlling Body of our state of Residence, are not permitted to breed ???????????.

Well, I'm not quite sure who you're really addressing here. Future buyers of puppies?

Registered breeders have their canine councils, lobby them to act on your behalf, isn't that why you elect them? Registered breeders have to fight the fight themselves, they have to stand up and separate themselves.....in the eyes of the puppy buying public....from puppy farms, backyard breeders etc. And they have to tell the public loud and clear why it's better to buy a puppy from them.

I'm talking to ALL the people and that includes you..

So, are you all going let the animal libbers walk all over you.

To be truthful it won't effect me because when all this eventuates I will not be breeding, I am just doing my best to see that any breeders that follow after me will have the right to breed should they wish to do so.

If the animal libbers have their way their will be no breeders left, not even Ethical Registered ones.

Or.............. will the only ones left be the Puppy Farmers that have the money to stand up and fight.

[Gayle.]

But to identify "registered ethical breeders" then ALL breeders need to be screened. Being registered does not make you ethical, and lots of unregistered breeders think they breed with a good ethic.

And just cos you say you're ethical does not make you so. Just as saying you're registered does not make you so.

I will always support the closure of any breeding establishment that produces puppies or any animals in squalor. And so far the animal libbers as you call them, are the only ones stepping up to the plate. The canine councils duck for cover and say "Oh that's not us", the government...from local to fedeal level, pass the buck or turn a blind eye.

At least the "animal liberationists", the RSPCA and concerned members of the public are bringing this to the media and saying "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".

[oakway]

But to identify "registered ethical breeders" then ALL breeders need to be screened. Being registered does not make you ethical, and lots of unregistered breeders think they breed with a good ethic.

And just cos you say you're ethical does not make you so. Just as saying you're registered does not make you so.

I will always support the closure of any breeding establishment that produces puppies or any animals in squalor. And so far the animal libbers as you call them, are the only ones stepping up to the plate. The canine councils duck for cover and say "Oh that's not us", the government...from local to fedeal level, pass the buck or turn a blind eye.

At least the "animal liberationists", the RSPCA and concerned members of the public are bringing this to the media and saying "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".

So what you are really saying is that you don't care that those of us that are ethical breeders, and there are thousands of us, get lumped into the same basket as Puppy Farmers.

[Gayle.]

No, this is what I really said:

But to identify "registered ethical breeders" then ALL breeders need to be screened. Being registered does not make you ethical, and lots of unregistered breeders think they breed with a good ethic.

And just cos you say you're ethical does not make you so. Just as saying you're registered does not make you so.

I will always support the closure of any breeding establishment that produces puppies or any animals in squalor. And so far the animal libbers as you call them, are the only ones stepping up to the plate. The canine councils duck for cover and say "Oh that's not us", the government...from local to fedeal level, pass the buck or turn a blind eye.

At least the "animal liberationists", the RSPCA and concerned members of the public are bringing this to the media and saying "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".

[oakway]

No, this is what I really said:

But to identify "registered ethical breeders" then ALL breeders need to be screened. Being registered does not make you ethical, and lots of unregistered breeders think they breed with a good ethic.

And just cos you say you're ethical does not make you so. Just as saying you're registered does not make you so.

I will always support the closure of any breeding establishment that produces puppies or any animals in squalor. And so far the animal libbers as you call them, are the only ones stepping up to the plate. The canine councils duck for cover and say "Oh that's not us", the government...from local to fedeal level, pass the buck or turn a blind eye.

At least the "animal liberationists", the RSPCA and concerned members of the public are bringing this to the media and saying "DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT".

You said this............And just cos you say you're ethical does not make you so. Just as saying you're registered does not make you so.

Well I am Ethical and Registered with my Controlling Body and I object most strongly to being likened to a Puppy Farmer along with many others that are as ethical as I am.

[Gayle.]

But to be separated from them, you would need to be screened along with all breeders. That's the only way to tell the difference. Being registered and saying you are ethical does not make you NOT a puppy farmer. Check any puppy farm sites....they ALL say they are ethcical and they all advertise themselves as registered. One even goes so far as to say they are an Australian government registered breeder.

[oakway]

But to be separated from them, you would need to be screened along with all breeders. That's the only way to tell the difference. Being registered and saying you are ethical does not make you NOT a puppy farmer. Check any puppy farm sites....they ALL say they are ethcical and they all advertise themselves as registered. One even goes so far as to say they are an Australian government registered breeder.

Go tell the the local Councils / Shires to do their jobs and close down the ones that do not come up to the standards set down by them.

The majority of Registered ANKC Breeders these days do not own enough bitches to come under scrutiny.

Those that own more would come under council/shire regulations.

[Steve]

Ethical is in the eye of the beholder.The term means different things to different people.

The term ethical when it pertains to staying within the code of ethics for the Canine Councils in my opinion doesnt make you ethical according to what I believe is ethical.So just being a registered breeder and staying within the CCs codes of conduct - does not automatically make you any different to any puppy farmer.

Whats more the Canine Councils have now admitted that they register puppies to breeders who are their members who break the law and do all manner of things the public should be able to assume is happening based on the way being a registered breeder is pushed and promoted.

2 states so far have introduced new accredited breeder programs. These breeeders have codes of conduct over and above what those who are not prepared to apy the extra money and agree to. They can still breed a thousand puppies as long as they say its for the betterment of the breed and they can still sell puppies to pet shops, they can still breed cross bred dogs.

The Bateman report said introduce an accredited breeder program IN THE UK. In the UK they dont have the same system as we do here and they need an accredited breeder system because of these differences.

But yet again instead of standing their ground and telling people we have a different system and saying all loverly warm fuzzy things about us they backed down and did what they were told.In Queensland instead of saying bugger off we are the breeders and giving examples and reasons as to why line breeding is used in all mammal breeding - putting the science out there they bow down to the animal rights pushers and tell the world that people who have never bred a pup know better.

So as far as Im concerned we are still right in exactly the same spot we were in 6 years ago.

People were bagging us out and no one was defending us least of all our Canine Councils, cross bred dogs and designers names were touted as being superior and for the first time I noticed breeding dogs was seen as a way of making mega bucks over night. Any one can get into the canine councils and still do all the things people who love dogs shouldnt even be thinking of doing. Redneck animal rights tell us what to breed at what age how often and how and unless the Canine Councils change from being a bunch of wimps with clearly little real knowledge of what is best for the species none of us will ever learn what we need to know about breeding dogs for the true better ment of the dogs and the breed.

Real conversations and real education on canne husbandry has become fraught with political suicide if you dare to challenge the status quo animal rights driven crap and the Canine councils in order to suck up in case they get nasty about our breed standards in the future and fall over themselves too frightened to tell the truth even if they know it.

So Oakway The canine Councils in this country are seen as the spokeman for purebred dogs and its not politically correct to say they dont agree with new laws to control puppy farmers and the standard rule is answer with - it wont affect anyone who is being responsible .

Vic dogs have already made a statement to say they are backing the RSPCA push for new laws for stopping puppy farms and they have even got involved in writing submissions to councils telling them not to allow puppy farm DA when that has nothing what ever to do with what they are supposed to be doing for their members because it scores em points with animal lib and RSPCA.

They have the biggest load of crap yet posted on their website re a meeting they are holding to restrict their own members this month.

6 years ago a bunch of us decided that if we were ever going to expect that the CC were going to defend registered breeders we had no hope.

6 years ago we saw that the codes of conduct which were lacking in what we felt was ethical could never be changed and that there was definitely a group of crook breeders.There was no point in denying these crooks existed because we all knew some.

6 years ago we saw that any one could get in to the CCs as a breeder and do all manner of things - they were never screened and never policed.

We started the MDBA and Im more passionate and more convinced to day than ever that its the right thing to do for the future of our dogs.

So if the CCs stand up and fight we will fight with them but unless they fight all we can do for now is set up a different battle plan which we will run past our members.

We intend to work our hearts out to promote our members and what they do - Its harder for a breeder [ or a rescue] to get into the MDBA than it is to complete the accredited breeder process- work on building our numbers [votes] because numbers is the only currency that will pull the trigger.

[Fevah]

What I'm hearing in this thread is that canine councils, the governing bodies who are meant to protect and police registered breeders, are not doing their job. This is perplexing to me because I would assume council members are themselves registered breeders with the knowledge and experience to know what they are talking about. Is this not the case? If it isn't, shouldn't well known, ethical registered breeders who have influence in the dog community be board members? Or is it too difficult/time consuming/political/expensive etc. to do this?

[~Anne~]

The canine councils are registires only, not advocay groups (in general). Hence why they are slow to react. It is not their function nor was it an intended function. Pedigree dog breeders would be better placed supporting groups such as the MDBA who are advocates and will lobby where needed.

[Souff]

Go tell the the local Councils / Shires to do their jobs and close down the ones that do not come up to the standards set down by them.

The majority of Registered ANKC Breeders these days do not own enough bitches to come under scrutiny.

Those that own more would come under council/shire regulations.

My thoughts exactly.

Legislation is a very expensive thing to introduce. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars every time a small bill is introduced, or an amendment to a bill.

If the existing laws are not being policed then it is a total waste of public money.

Introducing new laws when the existing ones are not being used is also a total waste of public money.

Souff

[oakway]

Steve Hi,

I agree with every word you have written. It's true and it's fact and I have no problem with it.

The only problem that I have, is people classing me and many other Registered Breeders that don't deserve it as "Puppy farmers".

We are NOT all tarred with the one brush.

Any scheme that comes in I will pass with flying colours, as will you, and so many of the other Registered Breeders out there.

What ever comes in as Rules and Regulations will possibly not effect me, because by the time this happens I may not be Breeding due to my age and situation, but I reserve the right to be able to fight for a fair deal for those that may wish follow in my footsteps.

By the way, for those of you out there that believe I have a big kennel, I don't.

I have three bitches, 2 Whippets and 1 Italian Greyhound.

One Whippet that has been bred once, and I have her daughter, so far she has not been bred with and will be 4 years old next February.

The Italian has also not been bred with.

These dogs live in the house with me.

If every body was as open as me, maybe there would not be as many problems out there with breeders as there is today.

I am just so sick and tired of all the Rules and Regulations being heaped upon Breeders that do no harm to anybody.

Because of these Puppy Farmers that have have emerged, why do the many Ethical Registered Breeders have to suffer for the Puppy Farmers crimes ?.

Steve, you are a breeder youself and know what I am talking about. I also applaud the work you and your band of followers do to help the Pure Bred Dog World.

[*Bones*]

Puppy buyers don't care, they will happily buy non registered pups. Since PDE, they would probably prefer crossbred. Because they know there are lots of diseases in purebreds, and crossbreds are healthier.

It's easier to find a pet shop or a puppy farm than a registered breeder, because of numbers advertising.

Canine councils have not been very interested. They do seem to be more proactive now.

Too little, too late.

Most exhibitors and breeders don't care. Very few are interested in taking any action. They suspect that anyone making waves is a weirdo radical dope smoking ratbag.

Many breeders and exhibitors have left because the fees are too high, or the regulations where they live make it difficult, or they wont keep an undocked dog.

In summary - the majority of pet owners don't care,. the majority of breeders don't care, and the canine councils don't care.

Why bother?

Edited October 12, 2010 by Octavia

[oakway]

Octavia we see where you are coming from and wonder the same things , but negativity is not getting us anywhere.

Please try and think positively, we as breeders need all the help that can be given just to survive.

[toy dog]

Bump

Come on people are you going to let the animal libbers get away with including Registered Ethical Breeders in this presentation to the Government.

Where will you go for your beautiful pets when all breeding has been closed down.

Registered Ethical breeders were not specifically excluded from this bill.

Again I ask where will you go to purchase healthy genetically tested dogs from, if we the registered breeders, and I mean registered with the Controlling Body of our state of Residence, are not permitted to breed ???????????.

Well, I'm not quite sure who you're really addressing here. Future buyers of puppies?

Registered breeders have their canine councils, lobby them to act on your behalf, isn't that why you elect them? Registered breeders have to fight the fight themselves, they have to stand up and separate themselves.....in the eyes of the puppy buying public....from puppy farms, backyard breeders etc. And they have to tell the public loud and clear why it's better to buy a puppy from them.

it is true, the majority don't care just whinge amongst themselves when the ones with the loudest voice are often heard. there's alot a registered breeder can do amongst the general public to promote ourselves but sadly not many are interested. lobby your breed club to conduct a friendly members comp to include members with pets to educate them about the pros of pedigree dogs.

talk to your workmates about it, on facebook, on public forums, write to your councils, MP's the government,there is heaps you can do rather than telling each other, its not going to get us anywhere.

you are preaching to the already converted.

in our state the state controlling body IS doing something after they were bombarded by its members, they are holding a puppy farm forum, have invited its members to have input on how to deal with this issue. They are one of 5 approved organisations i hear to advise the government on canine issues. So the RSPCA is pushing their agenda but i see their proposed legislation does exclude Registered breeders of DogsVictoria. So Dogs Victoria are pushing for its members too. all the things RSPCA listed on their proposed legislation is what registered breeders are already doing.

this is why they did set up this companion dog club thats going very well i see in Victoria. it promotes us in the general public and something for the average pet owner to join and learn about what we do best in a positive light.

and all the while most registered breeders at shows that i talked to were grumbling about the general public coming in ruining their shows. how ridiculous, its getting us out there amongst the general public pushing something positive....but no, grumble grumble grumble.....

sometimes i just don't understand the negative attitudes its not helping anyone at all isn't it any wonder that anything is said about us is just negative stuff ....!!!

i get sick of hearing negative stuff its really depressing im sorry that way but i really do...... and i don't really agree with US and THEM policy of saying its animal libbers against US registered breeders. people who are against puppy farmers are not hard core animal libbers i will say it again.

it is just normal people that want to see dog and cat sales banned in petshops and also puppy farms banned nothing else tacked on the end. becuse they believe in this they are called the dreaded "animal libbers" are they? its not a coo against registered breeders and stopping anyone breeding nothing has been said about this.

if i can't find anything out in plain sight written about stopping registered breeders im sure no one of the average community can too.

Edited October 13, 2010 by toy dog

[toy dog]

just been to my local pms office..got print out of what the will be doing to stop rogue puppy farm operators .hope full you guys can veiw at www.tedbaillieu.com.au ....unlike jon helper who all so whats to restrict vca memers to same rules as puppy farms.who dont health test ..

they are saying that because they don't know about registered breeders and what we/they do. no one is blowing our horn telling them. go on the facebook page there needs to be more reg breeders in amongst people saying "we want oscarslaw" i mean i want that too but these polies also need explanations why its not a good idea to buy a cross bred not health tested the parents not health tested and just breeding anything to anything and getting anything then passing it onto the consumer. we need more registered breeders on here talking about genetics and what happens when we buy crosses not genetically tested for anything. we need people that know what they are talking about...... so far all thats speaking is RSPCA, and organisations representing the pet owning public/shelters etc..

[Steve]

Steve Hi,

I agree with every word you have written. It's true and it's fact and I have no problem with it.

The only problem that I have, is people classing me and many other Registered Breeders that don't deserve it as "Puppy farmers".

We are NOT all tarred with the one brush.

Any scheme that comes in I will pass with flying colours, as will you, and so many of the other Registered Breeders out there.

What ever comes in as Rules and Regulations will possibly not effect me, because by the time this happens I may not be Breeding due to my age and situation, but I reserve the right to be able to fight for a fair deal for those that may wish follow in my footsteps.

By the way, for those of you out there that believe I have a big kennel, I don't.

I have three bitches, 2 Whippets and 1 Italian Greyhound.

One Whippet that has been bred once, and I have her daughter, so far she has not been bred with and will be 4 years old next February.

The Italian has also not been bred with.

These dogs live in the house with me.

If every body was as open as me, maybe there would not be as many problems out there with breeders as there is today.

I am just so sick and tired of all the Rules and Regulations being heaped upon Breeders that do no harm to anybody.

Because of these Puppy Farmers that have have emerged, why do the many Ethical Registered Breeders have to suffer for the Puppy Farmers crimes ?.

Steve, you are a breeder youself and know what I am talking about. I also applaud the work you and your band of followers do to help the Pure Bred Dog World.

Thats not the only problem I have but its the main one.

Under the system as it stands there is nothing there that is going to make any distinction between you and a puppy farmer and every day the line in the sand is less and less obvious. The days of people assuming because you are a registered breeder you are in some way better than any other person who mates a dog and has a litter of puppies is long gone. The days of people assuming that because you are a registered breeder you are covering the bases and breeding better dogs is well and truly out the window. Those breeders who show their dogs and think that any thing thats said is about other people and not them because they are automatically superior still havent worked out that its them and their dogs which are being spoken of as being less healthy and they are being seen to be less ethical than any group.

There is no point in trying to turn it around by applying pressure to the Canine Councils to amend their codes of conduct because its already been tested and they cannot stop people from selling their puppies to pet shops, they cant stop them from breeding designer dogs,they cannot stop them from breeding more than they should.

If they dont know what I know they are pretty slow and that is that if they bring in many more regulations and bullshit rules their members will walk away in droves,so they are not going to go after mandatory testing and even if they do it comes down to what it is in the breeds that are already there. What is the point in making a breeder pay big bucks to test their stock when there is no restriction on what scores or results have to be eliminated from the gene pool and if there were the gene pool would be reduced and ruined anyway ?

So from where I sit there are a couple of options but if I want to remain breeding registered dogs and not be seen to be swimming in the same pond as registered breeders who suck there are only 2 that I can see.

1 is to start a new registry and the other is to belong to a group which is more selective about who gets in and how they stay in based on what I think is ethical

and leave the Canine Councils to do the only thing that they were ever set up to do and the only thing in my opinion they have ever been successful at. Keeping a record of births and organising dog shows. If their attempts at animal welfare are reliant on advice from people who dont now, nor ever have, bred a puppy, who want dogs treated like people when they are being bred and if their actions are motivated by politcal motives rather than what truly is best for dogs they should get the hell out of that part of the game because they are doing more harm than good. That's not likely so we go back to the beginning again. The MDBA. The MDBA will never back putting more quasi police powers in the hands of the RSPCA while ever there is no legitimate way for ordinary every day pet owners to have methods of defending themselves in line with natural justice as they do in every other circumstance in a democracy.The MDBA will not back laws which are in conflict with what is best for the species and remove the rights of their owners.

Someone somewhere said that its cruel to debark dogs so we need council permission for our vets to do that - we cannot decide with our vet until we prove we have tried all manner of things to avoid it and yet we can ask our vet to kill them and we dont need council approval to do that - yet. How on earth did these crap laws ever get past go let alone make the RSPCA the policeman - and if you cant ping them because they debarked without council approval make crimminals out of them because they take em to a dog show?

You have to be kidding! If thats not a demonstration that we have enough laws and enough powers to the RSPCA may God help us.

No more laws- police the ones we have and realise that the people who are pushing for more laws are the ones responsible for the very things they call cruel happening.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Steve

[oakway]

Steve Hi,

I agree with every word you have written. It's true and it's fact and I have no problem with it.

The only problem that I have, is people classing me and many other Registered Breeders that don't deserve it as "Puppy farmers".

We are NOT all tarred with the one brush.

Any scheme that comes in I will pass with flying colours, as will you, and so many of the other Registered Breeders out there.

What ever comes in as Rules and Regulations will possibly not effect me, because by the time this happens I may not be Breeding due to my age and situation, but I reserve the right to be able to fight for a fair deal for those that may wish follow in my footsteps.

By the way, for those of you out there that believe I have a big kennel, I don't.

I have three bitches, 2 Whippets and 1 Italian Greyhound.

One Whippet that has been bred once, and I have her daughter, so far she has not been bred with and will be 4 years old next February.

The Italian has also not been bred with.

These dogs live in the house with me.

If every body was as open as me, maybe there would not be as many problems out there with breeders as there is today.

I am just so sick and tired of all the Rules and Regulations being heaped upon Breeders that do no harm to anybody.

Because of these Puppy Farmers that have have emerged, why do the many Ethical Registered Breeders have to suffer for the Puppy Farmers crimes ?.

Steve, you are a breeder youself and know what I am talking about. I also applaud the work you and your band of followers do to help the Pure Bred Dog World.

Thats not the only problem I have but its the main one.

Under the system as it stands there is nothing there that is going to make any distinction between you and a puppy farmer and every day the line in the sand is less and less obvious. The days of people assuming because you are a registered breeder you are in some way better than any other person who mates a dog and has a litter of puppies is long gone. The days of people assuming that because you are a registered breeder you are covering the bases and breeding better dogs is well and truly out the window. Those breeders who show their dogs and think that any thing thats said is about other people and not them because they are automatically superior still havent worked out that its them and their dogs which are being spoken of as being less healthy and they are being seen to be less ethical than any group.

There is no point in trying to turn it around by applying pressure to the Canine Councils to amend their codes of conduct because its already been tested and they cannot stop people from selling their puppies to pet shops, they cant stop them from breeding designer dogs,they cannot stop them from breeding more than they should.

If they dont know what I know they are pretty slow and that is that if they bring in many more regulations and bullshit rules their members will walk away in droves,so they are not going to go after mandatory testing and even if they do it comes down to what it is in the breeds that are already there. What is the point in making a breeder pay big bucks to test their stock when there is no restriction on what scores or results have to be eliminated from the gene pool and if there were the gene pool would be reduced and ruined anyway ?

So from where I sit there are a couple of options but if I want to remain breeding registered dogs and not be seen to be swimming in the same pond as registered breeders who suck there are only 2 that I can see.

1 is to start a new registry and the other is to belong to a group which is more selective about who gets in and how they stay in based on what I think is ethical

and leave the Canine Councils to do the only thing that they were ever set up to do and the only thing in my opinion they have ever been successful at. Keeping a record of births and organising dog shows. If their attempts at animal welfare are reliant on advice from people who dont now, nor ever have, bred a puppy, who want dogs treated like people when they are being bred and if their actions are motivated by politcal motives rather than what truly is best for dogs they should get the hell out of that part of the game because they are doing more harm than good. That's not likely so we go back to the beginning again. The MDBA. The MDBA will never back putting more quasi police powers in the hands of the RSPCA while ever there is no legitimate way for ordinary every day pet owners to have methods of defending themselves in line with natural justice as they do in every other circumstance in a democracy.The MDBA will not back laws which are in conflict with what is best for the species and remove the rights of their owners.

Someone somewhere said that its cruel to debark dogs so we need council permission for our vets to do that - we cannot decide with our vet until we prove we have tried all manner of things to avoid it and yet we can ask our vet to kill them and we dont need council approval to do that - yet. How on earth did these crap laws ever get past go let alone make the RSPCA the policeman - and if you cant ping them because they debarked without council approval make crimminals out of them because they take em to a dog show?

You have to be kidding! If thats not a demonstration that we have enough laws and enough powers to the RSPCA may God help us.

No more laws- police the ones we have and realise that the people who are pushing for more laws are the ones responsible for the very things they call cruel happening.

Well by what you and i believe of the Pure Bred Dog World it is in a rather sad and sorry state.

It is almost like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

If I give up and walk away it means that the Animal Libbers have won.

If I stay and do as I am told I will be brought down by Rules and Regulations.

Maybe it's time to bring the horse out of hibernation and bye bye dog world.

Yes, give up and let 40 years go down the gurgler.

Well at least I will have another hobby to fall back on, do the rest of you have one ?.

[Steve]

If things stay the same nothing will change and world wide none of the crap thats going on with more and more laws and rules are doing anything for those who they are supposed to be helping - the dogs.

There is no evidence to show that going down the path we are on is going to prevent one single dog from suffering in fact there is strong evidence to suggest the opposite.

Its going to take a different way of thinking to get to a point where we are all working toward the greater good - the dogs.

Give up? Never. Identify the problem - the real problem not one thats beaten up and made to look like its the problem and then find the solutions.

But part of that solution is going to have to be to acknowledge that regardless of what you choose to breed - whether you register them on a stud registry

or not, whether you show them or not that we are all equal in the eyes of the law and we all have the same obligation to the dogs we breed and the families they live with.

While ever we fall into the trap of beating a drum and pushing for ways of getting the other group shut down and run out of town because we are deluded into thinking we are the superior group and our beliefs and philosophies are the only ones which should be left standing we are writing our own death warrant and dogs will still suffer.

I am a dog breeder - and Im a bloody good one. Ive made my mistakes and still make em now and then. Ive served my apprenticeship and devoted my life to getting it right and Im proud of what I do and so are the people who live with the dogs I breed - and you know what? Kate Scoffeld the leader of the AAPDB which represents commercial breeders who is 100% anti purebred says the same thing about herself and the dogs she breeds. If I expect that I am going to have rights to breed my dogs and have her rights removed or vice versa neither of us will be breeding dogs. Like it or not thats a fact and rather than each group concentrating on making the other look bad and pushing for tougher laws to shut the others down - its time we concentrated on our own back yard and made sure thats in order regardless of which group we belong to.

In this country its not possible to make a law which disadvantages one group over any other and the sooner we realise that and stop expecting that we are going to be seen as the special ones over any other the quicker we can work out real ways of stopping dogs from suffering because bringing in laws to allow the RSPCA to police local by laws is a crap shoot especially with animal lib pointing out the targets.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Steve