Cesar Milan Discussion

[Staranais]

I haven't watched much of his stuff at all, since I don't own a telly.

I've seen people do silly things like poke their dogs and go SHHHHT before, but didn't realise it was a Cesar Millan thing until I read about it on DOL. The dog just looked rather confused. :rolleyes:

[pixie_meg]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

I like most of his ideas, but wish there was a way to communicate with the average person that the cases he is dealing with are generally extreme and what he does in those extreme cases would be totally unnecessary for the average pet dogs.

what, like on every episode it is written do not try this at home without a professional?

:rolleyes:

I couldn't articulate but you've summed up my feelings on it. I saw a behaviourist at 14 weeks for some serious issues and the methods were like cesar milans and the biggest help we could have got. a puppy develops its status in the household pretty quickly. we were surprised at how quickly. he was not just being a 'puppy'.

[biker girl]

Mostly I enjoy watching Ceasar (particulary if you watch South Park, they "do" a great episode)

I enjoy what he teaches about calm assertive energy, to me this is part of life, not running around like a chook with it's head cut off. Adults/children & animals do/will respect you more if you have that calm assertive energy about you. :rolleyes:

Body languge too is as we all know an excellent tool when dealing with people/animals ........................

however..............as Adian knows from a couple of our PMs, Ceasear doesnt deal with multi pack familys well. We had an incident a couple of months ago when two of our sheppies triggered into an attack on our our x-breed when she was choking. A couple of episodes when something like that has happened in the background, I have noticed it was edited out :D when they replay the incident. I have no problem with an older dog putting a younger dog in it's place when required.

What i would REALLY like to see is HOW all those dogs at his centre REALLY get on when either he or the camera crew is not there. To me if you have over twenty dogs running together, there are sub packs therefore conflict within those sub packs.

I hope that made sense

[Aidan]

What i would REALLY like to see is HOW all those dogs at his centre REALLY get on when either he or the camera crew is not there. To me if you have over twenty dogs running together, there are sub packs therefore conflict within those sub packs.

I hope that made sense :rolleyes:

It does make sense, but you would be surprised how well 20 dogs get along together compared to, say, 3 or 4. It's a different dynamic, in the short term and in the longer term.

[lovemesideways]

In response to the issues people have with flooding, there are cases where it Can be acceptable, (I believe) and very effective.

Here is a video showing flooding being used on a highly aggressive Rottie that had been in a shelter for something like 8 years. Never before had a man touched the dog. They quite literally saved this dogs life.

(there is also a part 1 explaining different training used)

And here is a video of counter conditioning being used on a dog (by a awesome PP clicker trainer) that has a fear of the floor in the kitchen.

It all comes down to the trainer. A great trainer will decide which method is correct for the dog, and use it accordingly.

Problem is Cesar is not a trainer but people still try to emulate him. They don't realise he works with dogs that most of the time are on their last legs. Dogs that have actually killed other dogs and animals, will try to rip a persons throat out if given the opportunity. Last chance or off the to the rainbow bridge.

I know people say "Look how much he has been bitten!" Considering the size and strength of some of the dogs he works with though, I'm thinking if he had been full on bitten there would be surgery and a lot of recovery timed required.

Either way, no way in hell could I do what he does. I just hope I'll be able to get to the point where I can have a Great Dane barking and lunging at me, and stand there completely calm with nothing but a teeny tiny fence between us. He has serious balls for sure.

Edited October 6, 2010 by lovemesideways

[aussielover]

I agree with his message that dogs need exercise, discipline/training and love.

I believe his methods work in the short term. If the dog went on to live with Cesar or someone like him, then I believe the dog would behave.

However, usually the people are incapable of implementing his instructions long term.

I think a lot of his success comes from his calm demeanour and showing no fear to a dog that is used to intimdating people.

I've not had a problem dog, but i do believe some dogs respond to some forms of training better.

[B-Q]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

I'm not naive enough to think that. But I don't think you can fix a severe behavioural problem in one session. I think good dog training probably doesn't make great TV. But what he does does.

I just don't think its a fair situation to put her in.

[B-Q]

double post.

Edited October 6, 2010 by busterlove

[W Sibs]

I like him. there are things he does that makes me go 'WTF!' though.

[biker girl]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

I'm not naive enough to think that. But I don't think you can fix a severe behavioural problem in one session. I think good dog training probably doesn't make great TV. But what he does does.

I just don't think its a fair situation to put her in.

Isnt what Cesaer is "generally" dealing with............dogs that have been allowed to get away with certain behaviour??????????

IS it no different from the Nanny 911/Supernanny deals with?????? Children with no boundires, no respect therefore no consequnces to their behaviour???

In the perfect world it would be wonderful to fix all dogs with food & cuddles, however no all dogs are wired to respond to that reward base. Like children they need to know boundries & when they have crossed them & THAT consequnces will follow & sometimes those consequnces are not pleasant.

I am not advocating the alpha roll either, though conequnces must be made clear to certain behaviour.

The other aspect that i like about Ceasaer, is that he teaches people animal, dog, name. That the dog IS NOT a furry person & to stop treating them like that. Very similar to Dr Phil too, in the respect of STOP feeling sorry for your dog (if it has been abuse etc) & to move on, yes what happened in the past is horrible but it was in the past now move forward to the present/future.

[Vickie]

I like most of his ideas, but wish there was a way to communicate with the average person that the cases he is dealing with are generally extreme and what he does in those extreme cases would be totally unnecessary for the average pet dogs.

what, like on every episode it is written do not try this at home without a professional?

:rolleyes: ok, maybe I should have said "communicate effectively" :D

[SparkyTansy]

I agree with his message that dogs need exercise, discipline/training and love.

I believe his methods work in the short term. If the dog went on to live with Cesar or someone like him, then I believe the dog would behave.

However, usually the people are incapable of implementing his instructions long term.

I think a lot of his success comes from his calm demeanour and showing no fear to a dog that is used to intimdating people.

I've not had a problem dog, but i do believe some dogs respond to some forms of training better.

Agree with this post..

plus every season his teeth get whiter... i'm going to need tinting for my TV soon.

[jesomil]

I like Cesar alot.

[RallyValley]

plus every season his teeth get whiter... i'm going to need tinting for my TV soon.

:D

Also in the first series he was all "oh you can do this with a leash from the dollar store" and then later its "I am using my Illusion collar which costs $$" :rolleyes:

I have respect though for what he does for Pit Bulls and how he never makes stupid claims, he is what he is

[Rysup]

I love watching his show and if you watch regularly you will see he almost never uses the alpha roll anymore.

And as a few others have said, he deals with a lot of extreme, last chance, cases.

But I am also smart enough to know that you take everything you see on TV with a large grain of salt

[Alfie02]

I agree with Ceasar Millan's training techniques as they have helped my dogs 100%. Before we found Ceasar I was almost in tears everyday as I couldnt walk my dog without him choking himself to death at every single dog we passed. We even came to the situation where he would bite us to get to another dog as he was insuch a rage (he is a small dog - but still a horrible experience). We tried the 'positive' training techniques but to no avail. So we tried Ceasar.

After a year of living by Cesars rules we can now take our boy the the dog beach, he can walk so well (I actually look forwards to our walks) and his desire to please has increased dramatically.

Even just his tip on placing the check chain higher up the dogs neck and only doing very gentle checks whilst holding the leash lightly helped us so much as we had no idea this would make a difference to the chain being on the base of their neck/on the top of the shoulders.

I completely understand that Ceasars training methods have their place, but used in the right situation they are excellent.

Just my experience and opinion

[huski]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

Surely Nekhbet though you are aware there are other options when training an aggressive dog other than choke it, or cuddle it and give it food

I've seen trainers handle "red zone" (as Cesar would call them) dogs without resorting to alpha rolling them (that would just be sheer stupidity anyway) or choking them till they give up (or run out of oxygen, either way) with great results so... I guess the "they are strong aggressive dogs" doesn't really make sense for me. And often, handling big aggressive dogs like Cesar does would be outright impossible for many owners to do - you'd have to be able to physically over power the dog, until it breaks. And even then, you are setting yourself up to get bitten.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I agree with what he does. As for choking, dog has an option - continue your behaviour and you get a consequence. If the dog calms down it stops. The options are in the dogs hands. He deals with a lot of large, strong dogs who are past the point of playing nice. Many of them are fix or go for a one way trip to the vet.

Not every dog can be fixed with cuddles and food.

Surely Nekhbet though you are aware there are other options when training an aggressive dog other than choke it, or cuddle it and give it food

Yeah, I have to agree with Huski here. There is a ton of options between cuddles and food and cutting off a dog's air supply.

To answer the original question, I think Milan is a tv personality. I think he sits in the same genre as Steve Irwin, in that a certain kind of person finds the macho shenanigans entertaining and/or impressive. However, if you're a serious student of animal behaviour you're not out there wrestling the poor buggers on prime time. Defenders of both point to their work saving animals, detractors point to the bad example and crazy merchandising. It's like a religious war now, and so I try not to get sucked in.

For me it's not so much a matter of what i think of his methods, as it is a matter of spending time on the methods of those trainers I get the most out of for my dogs. He's not one of them. I think his advice about being calm and assertive is good, however he doesn't recognise in his TV programs that most of the people he is dealing with need a 6 month retreat at a tai chi school or 12 months of psychotherapy before they even get close to being able to emulate his own calm assertiveness on a consistent basis.

[~*Shell*~]

I'm indifferent. Put it this way, if the option was to either put the dog to sleep (or dump it in the backyard for the rest of it's life) or send it to Cesar, I know which one I'd be choosing. Having seen Zero in that same situation, I can tell you it's heartbreaking. Thankfully, we found Steve

The simple fact that people try to use Cesar's methods without direction and without training is scary but at the same time, it has enlightened some of the general public to the way a dog is capable of acting. I have had a couple of people at training mention to me that they wouldn't have come except that they've been watching Cesar and they want a better behaved dog. For the first time, they've been able to believe it's possible because they have seen the cases he has been able to turn around.

I suppose you have to take the good with the bad though having met the man in person, I think he is in it for the good of dogs - that being said, I don't think anyone I've ever met is able to be as calm as he is in a panic situation.

[charley101]

I would be very interested to do the same poll in 10 years time to see the difference.

I think a lot of his methods are very out dated and some incredibly dangerous and horrible. I personally wouldnt let any of my dogs within 2000 k's of him. I am not saying everything he does is bad but choking something till it shuts down because it cant breath is no way to treat any living thing whatever it has done. Its a big fat NO from me