My Dog Is Not Agressive Some Advice Please

[Kavik]

It is simply the Lab temperament and not all dog temperaments work well together

Labs are exuberant and bouncy and physical when they play. That is just how they are. I am not saying it is a bad thing, just that owners are not always aware that other dogs don't appreciate that play style. I avoid them not because they are bad or because I don't like them, but because my dog has a different play style and does not want to physically wrestle with a Lab and I have learnt that you cannot always rely on other owners to do the right thing by your dog especially when their dog is very different. I avoid Staffies for the same reason. With Diesel not so much of an issue but Kaos does have quite a different style of interacting with other dogs than Labs do. He has gotten more tolerant (the other day we had a Sheltie who continued to follow us and bark at him quite close to him for about 10 mins and apart from one bark he just ignored it and followed me - it followed us around the park) but still I prefer to avoid situations that could cause a problem.

[Starkehre]

The Northern Beaches Ranger was terrific! I was hesitant reporting it as I had my Rotti with me and thought she would assume he was the instigator. The Rotti only started getting antsy when the Lab kept barreling my swf who started screaming in fright which got the Lab more excited and my Rotti more protective. The Lab owner then yelled at me that Rotties should be banned and my dog should be muzzled, my dogs didn't touch the Lab at all! The Ranger came straight out,the Lab crashed in to her and she couldn't get him off so it only confirmed to her that my dogs were under control and the Lab was not.

TBH I would not have bothered reporting it if the owner was not such a a-hole about it.

It makes me mad that some people think they can blame anything on the Rottis and excuse their own poor dogmanship.

Sending big Christmas hugs to all the gorgeous Rottis out there!

Souff

Thanks Souff. I will pass on your wishes to our kiddies.

Yes, we wear that sort of thing all the time.

That is why when you own the types of breeds that tend to get blamed before they have done anything, you often end up deciding not to attend places like leash free parks, even if they are bomb proof, don't rush and have excellent recalls. Just not worth the grief. My breed means too much to me to risk it receiving further negative publicity than is necessary.

[Adza]

The Northern Beaches Ranger was terrific! I was hesitant reporting it as I had my Rotti with me and thought she would assume he was the instigator. The Rotti only started getting antsy when the Lab kept barreling my swf who started screaming in fright which got the Lab more excited and my Rotti more protective. The Lab owner then yelled at me that Rotties should be banned and my dog should be muzzled, my dogs didn't touch the Lab at all! The Ranger came straight out,the Lab crashed in to her and she couldn't get him off so it only confirmed to her that my dogs were under control and the Lab was not.

TBH I would not have bothered reporting it if the owner was not such a a-hole about it.

It makes me mad that some people think they can blame anything on the Rottis and excuse their own poor dogmanship.

Sending big Christmas hugs to all the gorgeous Rottis out there!

Souff

;) Thanks Souff. I will pass on your wishes to our kiddies.

Yes, we wear that sort of thing all the time.

That is why when you own the types of breeds that tend to get blamed before they have done anything, you often end up deciding not to attend places like leash free parks, even if they are bomb proof, don't rush and have excellent recalls. Just not worth the grief. My breed means too much to me to risk it receiving further negative publicity than is necessary.

god help me when Tahls gets bigger

[toshman]

but runs very fast up to them

This in itself can be considered an offence. If any dog runs up fast to me or my dogs it gets my boot in it's face.

A and G, here's a great article written by Suzanne Clothier, on her website, called "He Just Wants to Say "Hi"! It's a bit long, but contains some very sensible advice.....

http://flyingdogpress.com/content/view/42/70/

[Agility Dogs]

a) does she have a leg to stand on; if she reports her as an aggressive dog( i know every council is different but just generally)

b) do you think this is aggressive behavior and I am just not aware and if so is there anyway I can train her not to do this.

Thanks for listening! I also just need to vent as I am so angry with how she approached the situation. if she had of nicely engaged with a discussion about it I think I would not be so angry.

Thanks for asking such a great question - its always a fine line between your dogs wanting to play and other people being threatened by their manner. I'm sorry if she was aggressive herself, but I can understand why she might feel that way. Different breeds of dog play very differently and they don't always understand each other and unfortunately it is usually the smaller dogs that end up hurt.

To answer your questions - unless she knows who you are and where you live then you don't have too much of a problem. Also - without some sort of proof that it happened and that it was your dog involved it might be difficult to get anything done about it.

In terms of the second answer - I'm not sure that I would call it aggressive, but I would call it inappropriate and with the potential to start a problem. My boy will not go near another dog and will actually go out of his way to avoid them, but if your lab behaved the way you have described to him and did not read his signals to leave him alone then your dog would be told off in no uncertain terms.

One the weekend I had an incident like this at the beach and the people who owned the other dogs were nice enough, but just didn't understand their dogs' behaviour. I saw their two boxers running towards us from about 300m and decided to put 2 of mine on lead - the puppy would go to play (and risk injury from bigger dogs - a similar incident with a GR is why I have to be so careful with my boy/and I don't want her learning that running away from me is rewarding) and my boy would be protective of the puppy.

The two boxers were at least 200m from their owners when they got to me. They started out polite enough and my boy was happy to say hello, if a little bit put out by the game being interrupted by strange dogs. This escalated into the other dogs trying to incite my three to play. By this time the other owners had reached us and said, 'Oh, what a shame, you can't let your dogs off lead.' 'Ah, no, I can let them off lead, but there is a reason that I don't like them annoying other dogs and getting in their faces (hint hint).' They came back with ' Oh, that's a shame you can't control them.'

Hmmmmmm............. My dogs weren't the ones that had bolted 300m to get to other dogs, weren't the ones starting to jump on a much smaller dog and weren't the ones that had to be dragged away up the beach. I have to make myself stay very calm in situations like this one - it annoys me more than I can put into words, but I know my boy feeds off my frustration which is never a good thing. perhaps this is the situation that the poodle lady was faced with and she just didn't keep her emotions in check.

Bottom line - it is rude for your dog to race up to other dogs that she doesn't know and at some point it will end up in a fight You need to work on being able to recall her from ANYTHING and check with other owners before letting her bound up to their dogs.

[Keira&Phoenix]

a) does she have a leg to stand on; if she reports her as an aggressive dog( i know every council is different but just generally)

b) do you think this is aggressive behavior and I am just not aware and if so is there anyway I can train her not to do this.

Thanks for listening! I also just need to vent as I am so angry with how she approached the situation. if she had of nicely engaged with a discussion about it I think I would not be so angry.

Thanks for asking such a great question - its always a fine line between your dogs wanting to play and other people being threatened by their manner. I'm sorry if she was aggressive herself, but I can understand why she might feel that way. Different breeds of dog play very differently and they don't always understand each other and unfortunately it is usually the smaller dogs that end up hurt.

To answer your questions - unless she knows who you are and where you live then you don't have too much of a problem. Also - without some sort of proof that it happened and that it was your dog involved it might be difficult to get anything done about it.

In terms of the second answer - I'm not sure that I would call it aggressive, but I would call it inappropriate and with the potential to start a problem. My boy will not go near another dog and will actually go out of his way to avoid them, but if your lab behaved the way you have described to him and did not read his signals to leave him alone then your dog would be told off in no uncertain terms.

One the weekend I had an incident like this at the beach and the people who owned the other dogs were nice enough, but just didn't understand their dogs' behaviour. I saw their two boxers running towards us from about 300m and decided to put 2 of mine on lead - the puppy would go to play (and risk injury from bigger dogs - a similar incident with a GR is why I have to be so careful with my boy/and I don't want her learning that running away from me is rewarding) and my boy would be protective of the puppy.

The two boxers were at least 200m from their owners when they got to me. They started out polite enough and my boy was happy to say hello, if a little bit put out by the game being interrupted by strange dogs. This escalated into the other dogs trying to incite my three to play. By this time the other owners had reached us and said, 'Oh, what a shame, you can't let your dogs off lead.' 'Ah, no, I can let them off lead, but there is a reason that I don't like them annoying other dogs and getting in their faces (hint hint).' They came back with ' Oh, that's a shame you can't control them.'

Hmmmmmm............. My dogs weren't the ones that had bolted 300m to get to other dogs, weren't the ones starting to jump on a much smaller dog and weren't the ones that had to be dragged away up the beach. I have to make myself stay very calm in situations like this one - it annoys me more than I can put into words, but I know my boy feeds off my frustration which is never a good thing. perhaps this is the situation that the poodle lady was faced with and she just didn't keep her emotions in check.

Bottom line - it is rude for your dog to race up to other dogs that she doesn't know and at some point it will end up in a fight You need to work on being able to recall her from ANYTHING and check with other owners before letting her bound up to their dogs.

Very informative and polite post. Thank you!

[corvus]

Clearly those applauding haven't considered that no amount of socialisation is going to turn a timid dog into a confident one, a dog aggressive dog into a friendly one or a breed that wasn't developed to associate with strange dogs into one that seeks their company and welcomes rushed approaches from strangers.

I've often thought about this. I've been lucky with my two, but next breed I get will perhaps be a Basenji. They are not known for tolerance of strange dogs. Basically, I won't be getting one until I have a yard big enough to give it the room to stretch its legs in case that turns out to be the only place it can do it and feel safe. Someone used to bring a Chow to our dog park. I don't know why, really. She wasn't interested in the other dogs, she didn't ever break out of a walk, and she'd get peeved if a strange person tried to pat her. We have plenty of places around here you can take a dog for a nice on leash walk for exercise and a change in scenery.

[aussielover]

Don't let your dog rush at smaller dogs in a dog park. It is simply not on.

Souff

How about don't let your dogs rush at ANY other dog in the park, unless you know them.

[jacqui835]

Clearly those applauding haven't considered that no amount of socialisation is going to turn a timid dog into a confident one, a dog aggressive dog into a friendly one or a breed that wasn't developed to associate with strange dogs into one that seeks their company and welcomes rushed approaches from strangers.

I've often thought about this. I've been lucky with my two, but next breed I get will perhaps be a Basenji. They are not known for tolerance of strange dogs. Basically, I won't be getting one until I have a yard big enough to give it the room to stretch its legs in case that turns out to be the only place it can do it and feel safe. Someone used to bring a Chow to our dog park. I don't know why, really. She wasn't interested in the other dogs, she didn't ever break out of a walk, and she'd get peeved if a strange person tried to pat her. We have plenty of places around here you can take a dog for a nice on leash walk for exercise and a change in scenery.

One of the parks I visit with my dog is huge and so there is plenty of room for the dogs who like to be social and play with the other dogs to do so whilst other dogs who just want to chase a ball/stretch their legs etc but don't necessarily enjoy the company of other dogs can also be comfortable. However, there are a few people who for some reason like to bring their unsocial dogs over to the group and this can and has made for some very scary situations. For example, one guy has a staffy who loves to chase frisbies. The staffy will not drop the frisbee or return when called, so the guy brings 2 frisbees and this he claims enables him to control his dog. The dog will not charge at other dogs from across the park and doesn't even seem to notice dogs who just walk past and so I would have no problem with him being in the park but for the fact that he insists on having the dog so close to others. Problem is, if any other dog touches or so much as looks at his frisbee, the staffy tries to start a fight, and sometimes, other dogs even just sniffing him are enough to set him off. Scares the crap out of all of us and I just don't get it. The guy has even said, "oh so long as he has his frisbees he wants nothing to do with the other dogs etc". Anyway, bit OT but yeah, I don't know why everyone brings their dogs to the dog park - I wouldn't if my dog wasn't obsessed with playing with his friends.

[Whippetsmum]

Hi A and G,

It's obvious that you trust your dog, and wouldn't have meant any offence or harm in the situation you describe. I get that from your post.

"It's OK he/she's friendly"....is probably the hardest thing NOT to say if you think your dog is friendly, but it's almost 100% sure to p### people off when your dog approaches theirs uninvited, wherever you happen to be. Owners read their dogs differently, perhaps the dogs being approached are signalling to their owner that they are uncomfortable. What I'm thinking when it happens is, well, we might have different definitions of friendly, and , fine...it's nice that you have faith in your dog but have our dogs met before, do they know how my dogs will react and even though it's never happened, what would the approaching "friendly" dog do if my "friendly" dog decided to protect me, and what if my dog is taken surprise and reacts to the oncoming intruder (has not done this yet but you can never tell) Lately my boy has taken a dislike to anything like a GSD, pricked ears and mid length coat are the common factors, the dislike extends to Samoyds too. It may be from a friendly approach by an off leash dog a while ago, it wasn't even an incident, the dog was reasonably friendly, but a bit abrupt and in your face, but now my boy gets really over vigilant and tense when he sees a similar body shape. Rin Tin Tin or Inspector Rex, it wouldn't matter to him. As responsible dog owners, we have to remember that our dog is less than 50% of the equation at the best estimate.

The only thing I want to hear when a dog is rushing me is "Come Muttly" and for the dog return to their owner, possibly followed by "I'm sorry, I've got him/her now, did you want them to meet?"

I hope that you get a chance to make friends with the other dogs, and that the owner doesn't stay mad. It would be a shame to feel like avoiding places or people.

[poodlefan]

Clearly those applauding haven't considered that no amount of socialisation is going to turn a timid dog into a confident one, a dog aggressive dog into a friendly one or a breed that wasn't developed to associate with strange dogs into one that seeks their company and welcomes rushed approaches from strangers.

I've often thought about this. I've been lucky with my two, but next breed I get will perhaps be a Basenji. They are not known for tolerance of strange dogs. Basically, I won't be getting one until I have a yard big enough to give it the room to stretch its legs in case that turns out to be the only place it can do it and feel safe. Someone used to bring a Chow to our dog park. I don't know why, really. She wasn't interested in the other dogs, she didn't ever break out of a walk, and she'd get peeved if a strange person tried to pat her. We have plenty of places around here you can take a dog for a nice on leash walk for exercise and a change in scenery.

At the risk of being accused of breed bashing (again) some aren't renowned for their tolerance of dogs they know either. Primitive breeds bring a range of challenges. Pack dynamics will keep you on your toes. You'd be wise to opt for a female with your current dogs.

PM me if/when you decide to take the plunge. I have a friend who's a breeder.

[RallyValley]

Just for you PF. ;) This is how I felt last night after a certain post;

But I couldn't stay up late because I start work really early and have to bring my a-game.

I have a little wierdo dog, and I accept it will always be two steps forwards 3 backwards with him. I got him neglected, possibly 8 weeks old, possibly abused. After owning him for a week he broke his leg (I know all my fault ) and had to be in a cast from 9 weeks to 6 months and missed out on all that vital socialization. I have put a TON of work into him and was really coming foward when I had three incidents in two weeks of dogs rushing at him, two of those dogs were labs, once was at an offleash park, the others were on the street, all times the dogs had poor/no recall all times Toby was onleash.

To anyone who wants to say am I being immature when I get peeved that thier "Just being friendly" dog rushes up to mine maybe pause for thought for a second. You dog might just be friendly but mine is unpredictable. The issue is dog rushing, I don't care what breed, size or if it's just being friendly. It has come to the point where I don't take my dog out much because I am sick of offleash dogs, I find busy roads are a good place to walk to avoid dogs, only Toby is terrified of wheels/cars and is in a state of anxiety the whole walk. This is not a gripe with any breed, just a gripe with irresponsible owners and idiot ranting posters (whose posts have been removed).

[corvus]

At the risk of being accused of breed bashing (again) some aren't renowned for their tolerance of dogs they know either. Primitive breeds bring a range of challenges. Pack dynamics will keep you on your toes. You'd be wise to opt for a female with your current dogs.

If we get a third, which will probably be after the bunnies are no longer with us, it'll be a girl no matter what the breed. With E's temperament our choices will be much more carefully considered than for the last two. ;) Kivi would get along with anything, but Erik is a bit... Erik.

PM me if/when you decide to take the plunge. I have a friend who's a breeder.

I will.

Back on topic, honestly I see a lot of dogs in dog parks that don't really enjoy it. It's very sad. Mine love it, and Erik enjoyed it even when he didn't really like to mix with other dogs. My previous dog enjoyed it even when she was old and sore and didn't want strange dogs bouncing around her. She'd give them the look and they'd avoid her. I find beaches and really big parks make a big difference. It's usually not hard to get away from other dogs. I've been in our local park when there's been over 20 dogs there, several games of fetch and there's still room to avoid the lot if you want. The way that park is set up it's very long so the dogs get walked up and down the park as they play. It means pestering is rare as the dogs are keeping tabs on their people. It's not fenced either, so dogs kinda have to come when they are called to be safe. It's not foolproof, but we rarely have any troubles there or on the beach.

We have a local fenced park we avoid, but it does have three fenced sections and usually all the dogs are in one being bratty and weird together. I like the idea that if we did ever have to use it if we had a dog not trustworthy off leash, we could find a time when we could be reasonably confident to have one of the sections to ourselves.

I find walking on the streets nerve-wracking. Too many territorial dogs. We aren't fond of being verbally abused by dogs, and you never know when one is going to be on the wrong side of the fence.

[melzawelza]

We have a local fenced park we avoid, but it does have three fenced sections and usually all the dogs are in one being bratty and weird together.

Kirrawee? If so, best description ever. LOL Can't stand it.

[Robbi]

I think that as dog owners we have to accept the fact that not all dogs are suitable for dog parks, it is up to us to put the safety of our dogs and other peoples dogs at the fore front and not take some dogs to the park, dog parks shouldn't be used to socialise dogs that haven't yet learnt manners and socialisation, dogs that have no recall are also a hazard to themselves and others.

My Whippet loves to play with his friends at DOL meets but I would be very cautious of letting him loose at some of the more crowded parks as he does zoomies with other dogs and could hurt himself or others, if he was in a fight he would come off second best as although he thinks he is a toughie he is like tissue paper. My Bull arab x is never going to be a social butterfly, she loves her dog brother Yogi and they play nicely and she has some dogs that she plays with but she is not ever going to back down from a more aggresive dog, as her owner I am not going to ever set her up to fail in any way and she misses out on nothing by not going to dog parks

[Staff'n'Toller]

Just for you PF. :D This is how I felt last night after a certain post;

But I couldn't stay up late because I start work really early and have to bring my a-game.

I have a little wierdo dog, and I accept it will always be two steps forwards 3 backwards with him. I got him neglected, possibly 8 weeks old, possibly abused. After owning him for a week he broke his leg (I know all my fault :D ) and had to be in a cast from 9 weeks to 6 months and missed out on all that vital socialization. I have put a TON of work into him and was really coming foward when I had three incidents in two weeks of dogs rushing at him, two of those dogs were labs, once was at an offleash park, the others were on the street, all times the dogs had poor/no recall all times Toby was onleash.

To anyone who wants to say am I being immature when I get peeved that thier "Just being friendly" dog rushes up to mine maybe pause for thought for a second. You dog might just be friendly but mine is unpredictable. The issue is dog rushing, I don't care what breed, size or if it's just being friendly. It has come to the point where I don't take my dog out much because I am sick of offleash dogs, I find busy roads are a good place to walk to avoid dogs, only Toby is terrified of wheels/cars and is in a state of anxiety the whole walk. This is not a gripe with any breed, just a gripe with irresponsible owners and idiot ranting posters (whose posts have been removed). :D

Thank you soooo much for that illustration...it's a keeper! :D

My dog is much the same as yours, being on lead heightens his responses though so I am the same in that there's not many (any) off lead places we can go. It's super stressful, and doesn't help when you get called nasty names because you've had to ask three times for the other person to recall their dog.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'm at dog park with just me and my dog - it's a cricket oval, loads of room. I've been practicing drills with my dog - just for fun.

Two little poodle / schnauzer like dogs show up, and the schnauzer type rushes my dog. And the poodle is hot on trail. Having posted here already about liking to greet on lead first... well there goes that. Owner has no clue her dogs are going to be in trouble if they keep doing that and I don't tell her. Neither of them come when she calls them. They don't even stop to check out who is calling... She does say "sorry, the schnauzer is just a puppy"... he looked full grown size to me.

And then a lab came along and did the same again. He was a bit more persistant - cos I have treats and I didn't give him any. I hate being slobbered on. Did manage to persaude lab owner to pick up after her dog. I am sure she looked at him doing his crap and then kept walking until we yelled at her. She didn't need any help finding the spot so I don't know what she was thinking... That's another thing I hate - giant craps on the ovals. Takes a big dog to make a crap that big.

And then there was some sort of huski like dog - wasn't a huski but one of those wolf looking breeds but this one had shorter fuzzier hair all over. I've had a few bad experiences with dogs that look like that so I was a bit worried - he was quite a bit bigger than the labrador. I thought I'll get my dog on lead and we can find out if he's friendly, but no - the "owners" let him off without greeting any of the other dogs on the oval and they'd never met any of them because they were just looking after dog for a friend. One of the pair of humans with this dog was extremely old school when it came to giving this dog directions - lots of scolding and yelling and no praise at all.

This dog rushes me and my dog too. Sheesh. The fourth one in 10 minutes. They were all friendly but what if they were not. What if my dog wasn't. My dog was under control but none of the others were. I let my dog play with the fuzzy dog, and they're having quite a bit of fun, ignoring the fuzzy dog's guardians. I call my dog back to keep her closer to me, and fuzzy dog comes too. Ie he comes when I call but not when his responsible adults call him. Sigh.

And this afternoon there's a lady walking her dog on the oval with no collar or dog rego. A group of us were discussing different ways to rack up fines - mostly with cars - but she was oblivious to the fact she could get one for having dog at park with no collar or lead. And that dog generally did not come when she called either.

I consider myself very lucky that I have a dog that is such a grovel dog that she rolls over when she is rushed by other dogs. And she doesn't rush other dogs without permission. And she backs off if the other dog shows any sign of being uncomfortable with her presence - usually well before the other dog issues a growl.

There are two dogs that visit our oval that I think I might sick the council ranger on to because the man does not pick up after them. Both of the dogs will rush my dog, they play too rough for her, and she freaks and runs away. It's very hard to get her back if shes them coming before I do. I don't think these dogs wear rego tags either so that would be enough to get them off. Or fined. Or discouraged. But half the dogs on the oval would be in trouble.

Sigh, our dog management act covers what it needs to, but nobody enforces unless someone is bleeding. Sigh.

[corvus]

We have a local fenced park we avoid, but it does have three fenced sections and usually all the dogs are in one being bratty and weird together.

Kirrawee? If so, best description ever. LOL Can't stand it.

Yes. :D I don't know if it's a fenced park thing or just that one, but man, every time I've been there it's had dogs behaving weirdly and everyone sits at the tables in the middle and lets their dogs follow my guys around being strange and vaguely, incomprehensibly threatening. Stopped going after the second or third time. I just don't see that at the unfenced places. It's really unusual to be followed.

I agree, Robbi. Some dogs are just not really suited to dog parks. Unfortunately, I think you've got to expect to be rushed. I feel bad sometimes when people bring dogs into the park that find it stressful. I can keep my boys away from them, but it's a drop in the ocean. We've had dogs refuse to walk past us before. You've got to wonder what happens to those poor dogs on a daily basis. Sometimes we have to give them a good 10m before they'll scoot past us, even when we put ours on leash just to make sure they won't bother them. People with these dogs never seem to realise they are terrified. They say to us "Oh, don't worry, she's a scaredy-cat." It's not necessarily a character trait, you know. Forcing the dog through this gauntlet of overly friendly dogs everyday isn't helping. And I am worried! If I let my dogs intimidate these little guys like the owners seem to think is appropriate, what would I be helping to create? I'm mindful of contributing to problems, whether the owner recognises them or not. At least I can give the little dogs one enconter in which they didn't need to growl or snap or run around barking hysterically.

The worst is the people that bring dogs to the park that don't like other dogs, then hit them whenever they growl. Then if my dog is the one that got growled at, the owners apologise to me! I try to tell them I'm very sorry for letting my dog scare their dog and they are incredulous and argue with me about it. I just feel like crying sometimes. Kind of puts friendly rushes in perspective.

[Silvawilow]

"Rushing" at another dog or person IS considered an offence in Victoria. Its enough to have your dog declared dangerous! If your dog ran up to "say hello" (rushing) to my dogs I would have reacted exactly the same as the lady with the poodles, and I would have reported you to council

Agreed. In our council our local laws define "dangerous dog" to include rushing up to another dog or person. I would have reported you to the council too as the dog was rushing and IMO not under effective control.

[megan_]

I thinkt he big issue is that you can't walk your dog in an on leash area without being hassled by off leash dogs. It isn't as simple as "avoid dog parks".

FWIW, There are no dog parks in Melbourne - all parks where dogs are allowed off leash are shared spaces for the whole community. I used to love my local off leash park. Kids played footy, people jogged and rode bikes and the few dogs that frequented it were happy with this arrangement. I could walk my girl on her long leash. People knew that she didn't like being rushed and would give her space. Unfortunately, a few guys have now bought "muscle" dogs (who they have no control over) and go there every night, so it is now on the "places to avoid" list. The list of places that I can take my girl to are getting less and less.