RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 My daughter (against my advice) got a little mixed breed puppy, from a place that obviously didn't take very good care of their dogs. I guess she thought she was saving it. Anyway, straight after getting it, she wormed it, and this resulted in several large stools that were literally riddled with worms. I find it hard to believe that such a small pup could have so many worms in it's body, but it was bad. Anyway, seemed to get over that ok. Fast forward to a few weeks later - daughter had to go to a wedding out of town, and I took her pup over in my car, but during the car trip, he vomited. I didn't think it was any big deal, but he vomited a couple more times that afternoon, he seemed a little out of sorts, bit quiet and depressed, but thought maybe it was from the travelling. Next morning, he was vomiting again, and was really, really skinny. You could now tell he was actually sick. Was very quiet, sleeping a lot. We had to travel back home and he vomited again on the trip. Anyway that night I started thinking, could it be parvo? I told my daughter to keep a really close eye on him and tell me if he had any other symptoms, e.g. diarreah, blood in stools etc. She had to work early the morning, started at 6.30am but dropped her little boy off here on the way to work, and said that the pup had been having diarreah and one of the stools looked to have blood in it. She would've taken him to the vet after work (2.30pm finish) but they ended up having a meeting and she didn't actually get away till 6pm. She got home and the pup was dead. So what do people think? I've never had any run ins with parvo myself so I'm not totally sure of what it's like, how quickly it kicks in, how quickly it can kill? Should she get vet to check pups body to find out whether it WAS parvo? Any suggestions as to what else could have caused it. Also if the cause was parvo, and the pup was around another who hasn't been immunised, if the other pup gets immunised straight away, should it be ok, or would it be too late to do anything? Also, because the pup vomited in my car, is it safe to have my dogs in my car? Both of my girls are fully up to date with their vaccinations, so they should be ok right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) I hate to say it but 48 hours of vomiting and diarrhea without veterinary treatment would kill most young pups - chronic dehydration would do the job. It could have been any number of causes. Edited October 10, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Sorry but why was this pup not at the vets? Why didn't you take him? I agree with poodlefan that the dehydration alone would have killed him. But yes, I would be very concerned that it was parvo and yes it can kill that quickly - especially left untreated. Yes your car could be infected and no, vaccinating now will NOT protect the other pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I hope your daughter does not get another pup if she's not willing to give it the appropriate care (including taking it to the vet). Poor thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squinter Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Had she had the dog for a few weeks without vaccinating it? How old was the pup? Had she been taking it out and about places with a high level of dog traffic before it has been fully immunised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamSnag Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I hope your daughter does not get another pup if she's not willing to give it the appropriate care (including taking it to the vet). Poor thing. x2.. How horrible for the pup to go tho this.. Poor thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well the first vomiting occurred in the car in the middle of nowhere. Then the second one that afternoon. Then one vomit the next morning, then one more in the car on the way home. So it was 4 sessions of vomiting over a 36 hour period, and it was a very small amount of vomit. We were in a different town. We assumed at first it was just either a travel sickness thing, or some minor tummy upset. He seemed depressed and not much energy, but if you feel a bit crook, that's pretty normal. He was still eating and drinking fine. The diarreah didn't happen till during last night (after my daughter had gone to bed). Then she went to work first thing this morning, and unfortunately instead of knocking off when she was supposed to, she had to stick around for a meeting. If I had any idea he was sick before I travelled with him, then I wouldn't have travelled with him. I wouldn't intentionally put anybody else's dog at risk. I try and do the right things by my own dogs, get the vaccinations, do worming, all the normal stuff. But this pup wasn't mine, and I wasn't around him for the whole period of time that he was sick, so I only heard about some of the vomitting after it had happened. Once I started to think there ACTUALLY WAS something wrong, I told my daughter she would need to take him to the vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pesh Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm not going to judge you, obviously we don't have all the info and I don't know you. It sounds like parvo, although it could be one of many illnesses. If it is parvo, yes everything is infected. Did you think of an autopsy? It would give you the answers you need. A friend went through the same thing and knew nothing of parvo being the first dog they'd ever had. They did all the right things and lost the puppy. To cut a long story short they bought an older dog who was totally vaccinated, which saved the risk of parvo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss B Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 So it was 4 sessions of vomiting over a 36 hour period, and it was a very small amount of vomit. We were in a different town. We assumed at first it was just either a travel sickness thing, or some minor tummy upset. He seemed depressed and not much energy, but if you feel a bit crook, that's pretty normal. He was still eating and drinking fine. Next morning, he was vomiting again, and was really, really skinny. You could now tell he was actually sick. Was very quiet, sleeping a lot. We had to travel back home and he vomited again on the trip. ^^ He should have been taken to the vet by this point. Sorry, I know this doesn't help find out what killed him, or bring him back, and I don't mean to be rude. But I hope that your daughter understands that a sick puppy cannot just be left at home all by himself. What seems like a 'small' amount of vomiting and/or diarrhoea can be (as others have said) deadly for a tiny puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k9angel Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Poor little puppy. Sounds like parvo to me too, but I am no vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 I told her to ring the vet tomorrow and find out about doing an autopsy, just coz I think she needs to get an answer. My other daughter has rang a vet friend of hers and chatted to her about it, and apparently there is also some kind of upper respiratory infection going around that can also cause similar symptoms. So will find out after she talks to the local vet tomorrow. Thanks to the people who gave opinions etc without the really obvious judgements. Ok, I always take my dogs to the vets if there is a problem .... but this was my adult daughter, who does not live under my roof, and as much as I might try and give her advice on how to do things, it is her responsibility to follow through and actually DO them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Without testing it's hard to know for sure, but I'd say 99% positive this little pup had parvo. I have diagnosed at least 4 in the past week, there is alot around. Vomiting and lethargy come well before the diarrhea in most cases, and they can even die in treatment without diarrhea due to vomiting alone. I'd be really careful, and any new pups I would not take into this infected environment until they are fully vaccinated + 2 weeks to be safe. Vaccinated dogs should be fine, but they can carry it on them and spread it. It can live for up to 10 years in some environments, so this is something you will have to think about for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thanks Elise, really appreciate your post. I think my place and yard is ok, as she hasn't had her puppy over here for probably about 2 weeks (and I doubt he had it for that long), and I never take my girls over to her place (they are vaccinated anyway). But I will have to clean the car pretty thoroughly. What would be the situation if my girls are vaccinated, but could still potentially carry it, if they then ended up pregnant? Would their immunisation flow through to their babies? Because I was planning a breeding in two months time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 There immunization last somewhere between 6 and 14 weeks generally, but depends on the dog and their level of immunity, so you would have pups which might be vulnerable to infection. If this was parvo, pup might have been infected anywhere between 7 and 16 days before it began showing signs, so I'd still be very careful. Best to also get some good disinfectant as parvo is hard to kill. F10 is what we use in the clinic, but this needs long contact time, but I think that would be the best idea to try and clean what you can, obviously the yard is all but impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 You will not only have to clean the car`- but your clothes/shoes/everything. You will have walked it into your house/yard . be sure and use something specific to killing parvo. It is very sad ... poor pup. Upper respiratory infections , being that they involve lungs, etc don't usually cause vomiting/diarrhoea with blood , AFAIK . Untreated parvo in small pups goes very quickly from bad to worse .. That's what it sounds like to me ... but it may have been another nasty bug, coupled with a heavy worm burden .. Hope all goes well with your dogs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillbear Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 It could also be a result of the severe worm burden. The initial worms may have been enough, but if there wasnt a follow up worming 10- 14 days after the first dose then you have a compromised pup plus heavy worm burden plus dehydration. A fatal combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 It could also be a result of the severe worm burden. The initial worms may have been enough, but if there wasnt a follow up worming 10- 14 days after the first dose then you have a compromised pup plus heavy worm burden plus dehydration. A fatal combination. I'm pretty sure she done a follow up worming two weeks after the original one. I'm almost certain I remember her saying she'd wormed him again. But thank you everybody for your replies. I will post here and let you know what the outcome of the autopsy is. I am really really hoping that it wasn't parvo .... just because I will feel guilty if I've put anybody else's dog at risk by taking him to their house when I took him over to my daughter. We have already rang the people at the other house, and I told them to take their dogs to the vet just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 your daughter should have taken that pup to the vet several times after purchase for vaccination, faecal parasite count and blood tests. Such a heavy worm burden would have put the pup backwards in the first place and basic wormers do not always totally fix the problem. If the pup has been in your backyard and vomiting/defecating all over the place and does confirm parvo, you risk having contaminated that area with the virus. I would be virkoning the hell out of anywhere that pup went to the toilet even if your lawn then looks terrible. I think if you want to breed you need to start learning more about disease, quarantine procedures and how to protect your own animals. Knowing that your daughter has not totally cared for this pup properly in regards to its overall immunity and health, you should have implemented quarantine procedure and kept it in a crate the whole time, never in your yard, and dispose of everything this pup touched. This way even if it did come up with parvo the stress of cross infection is not there on your behalf particularly since you want to have your own litter of pups soon. How many places did you take this pup exactly if you are worried about other peoples dogs too? Fast forward to a few weeks later - daughter had to go to a wedding out of town, and I took her pup over in my car, but during the car trip, he vomited. I didn't think it was any big deal, but he vomited a couple more times that afternoon, he seemed a little out of sorts, bit quiet and depressed, but thought maybe it was from the travelling. Next morning, he was vomiting again, and was really, really skinny. You could now tell he was actually sick. Was very quiet, sleeping a lot. We had to travel back home and he vomited again on the trip.Anyway that night I started thinking, could it be parvo? I told my daughter to keep a really close eye on him and tell me if he had any other symptoms, e.g. diarreah, blood in stools etc. She had to work early the morning, started at 6.30am but dropped her little boy off here on the way to work, and said that the pup had been having diarreah and one of the stools looked to have blood in it. She would've taken him to the vet after work (2.30pm finish) but they ended up having a meeting and she didn't actually get away till 6pm. She got home and the pup was dead. The pup died from dehydration and lack of veterinary care. What caused the symptoms is irrelevent. Tell your daughter not to get any more puppies if she doesnt have time to afford them proper care. Dogs are like babies at that age they cannot wait for everyone to decide who needs to be responsible for taking it to the vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseRed Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 The pup hasn't been in my yard for probably around 2 weeks. The only other place it has been (apart from my daughter's house) is the place we were staying at for the weekend (my other daughter's place) coz we had to go over there for my other daughter's wedding. And yeah, as I have already said, I tried to talk my daughter out of getting the pup in the first place, because I didn't think she was in the best position to be ready for a dog. But unfortunately, the pup came from her neighbours, so she was there the day the pup was born, saw it regularly, developed an atttachment to it, then the neighbours little boy threw one of the pups off the stairs and killed it, so my daughter thought she was saving this other pup by taking it away from where it originally was. Yes, she should have had it vaccinated before now, and she had the intention of getting it done .... but I guess good intentions aren't enough if they come too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm suprised that people are jumping to the parvo conclusion? My boy had severe gastro and inflamed colon when he was about 1 (came out of nowhere, I took him to the emergency vet immediately after he vomited the first time because he didn't look right). I asked the vet if I overreacted and she said if he was not treated within 24 hours he would have been in a critical condition. As PF pointed out, a relatively harmless virus or bacteria can be fatal due to dehydration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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