Havasneeze Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havasneeze Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, I like most of the aspects of this. I must admit though I'm a little hesitant about the challenge aspect and the ommission of RU/BOB - I mean if a bitch wins BOB and the reserve challenge is RU/BOB, the dog would appear on the pointscore to be better. I know that's purely putting up a hypothetical situation, but I think by taking the focus away from BOB, it can reward mediocrity - eg 8 dogs and 1 bitch - bitch is BOB and goes on to win show...in the challenge pointscore the dog challenge winner would appear to be better. I don't see it as a massive issue given that most in the know don't use DOL pointscore to judge the quality of a dog - it's just a competition run within parameters that represents the result based on those parameters but I guess the thing for me is where there is a numerical deficiency in either the dogs or bitches, a points award advantage may exist where the specimen doesn't even rate when it comes to all of the breed being judged. So I'd have to say I favour the best of breed competition - it rewards the winner and second-place getter. I do agree with the aspect of taking the absentees, babies out of the picture. I don't see that as being correct, though I might have missed something.... BOB Challenge is the total of dogs and bitches, therefore if the bitch gets BOB she gets the challenge points for the dogs as well as herself, making it a 14 point Challenge (BOB) and 13 point Dog Challenge Edited December 9, 2011 by Havasneeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conztruct Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) Hmmm, I like most of the aspects of this. I must admit though I'm a little hesitant about the challenge aspect and the ommission of RU/BOB - I mean if a bitch wins BOB and the reserve challenge is RU/BOB, the dog would appear on the pointscore to be better. I know that's purely putting up a hypothetical situation, but I think by taking the focus away from BOB, it can reward mediocrity - eg 8 dogs and 1 bitch - bitch is BOB and goes on to win show...in the challenge pointscore the dog challenge winner would appear to be better. I don't see it as a massive issue given that most in the know don't use DOL pointscore to judge the quality of a dog - it's just a competition run within parameters that represents the result based on those parameters but I guess the thing for me is where there is a numerical deficiency in either the dogs or bitches, a points award advantage may exist where the specimen doesn't even rate when it comes to all of the breed being judged. So I'd have to say I favour the best of breed competition - it rewards the winner and second-place getter. I do agree with the aspect of taking the absentees, babies out of the picture. I don't see that as being correct, though I might have missed something.... BOB Challenge is the total of dogs and bitches, therefore if the bitch gets BOB she gets the challenge points for the dogs as well as herself, making it a 14 point Challenge (BOB) and 13 point Dog Challenge No - I might have missed something because I haven't read through the detail - lol. I guess maybe then the only thing I can complain about (and I'm not really complaining - the point score is what it is no matter what the parameters) is the poor RU/BOB who is judged second best for the breed but the opposite sex challenge winner takes home the points. Edited December 9, 2011 by conztruct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RallyValley Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Troy in regards to the Field Ch. or the Retrieving Ch. being worth only half the points of a Tracking Ch. that is just insanity! To get a retrieving champ or a field champ dogs must win multiple times in trial to progress from upper levels to lower levels and then win again at the top level multiple times to complete the championship, this is intense and competitive and very few dogs actually reach the level of Field Ch. or Retrieving Ch..... Either make them all the same please or follow up on just how hard it is to get one of these titles, no idea why it is worth half a Tracking Ch.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. I would think a retrieving Ch title is much harder than a tracking Ch. A lot of people seem to be able to get a TCh title in one season... Only if there dog is bloody good !!!!!!!!!!!! And then they deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards LOL I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D & D Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards LOL I was thinking the same thing. LOL, they're 40 cents each, same with the Best in Show cards (from Dogs NSW gazette). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellcara Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I think the best change is the limit on shows taken into account ... A quick check on a couple of breed "leaders" show they have attended in excess of 70 shows this year (and it isn't finished) .... Nice to see that the exhibitor who maybe only attends a few shows a month might now feel they can be competitive in the pointscore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CaptainCourageous Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 (edited) ADVANCE® Breeder of the Year - More titles now eligible for points. Are the Dancing With Dog titles coming in next year, or are they there already? CC Edited December 10, 2011 by CaptainCourageous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conztruct Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards LOL I was thinking the same thing. LOL, they're 40 cents each, same with the Best in Show cards (from Dogs NSW gazette). I know in Qld when I write we're supposed to cross the breed points out on the BOB certificate and change it to the group points, but we still do the group/show cards as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D & D Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards LOL I was thinking the same thing. LOL, they're 40 cents each, same with the Best in Show cards (from Dogs NSW gazette). I know in Qld when I write we're supposed to cross the breed points out on the BOB certificate and change it to the group points, but we still do the group/show cards as well. Really? We write the breed points on the back of the card in pencil of all the BOBs. When BIG is done, we write them on the front, and fill in the group card. Don't always fill in the BOB card of the BIG (not always 25 points), so do the same for all the BIGs...........write them in after BIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiesrule Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 We need those results for tie-breaking if there is more than one dog on the same number of points. Troy is is possible to add The Rally-O titles as well which will start up in 2012 ? Flyball isn't in their either Is Flyball and ANKC sanctioned title? Abby has her Flyball Master (FM) ANKC cert Awesome ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaar Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 You guys don't have group or special certificates up there? We get certificates for everything Breed, challenge, best in group, class in group, best in show, class in show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmaro Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 Breed Challenge Competition NEW - Previously known as Best of Breed competition.Points will be awarded based on challenge points received (NOT the number of dogs entered). Only best 40 results (points value) will be counted. I like the fact it will be based on challenge points for BOB and that it is capped at 40 shows/results (less would have been better, but hey it's a start) So if a dog now wins BOB and there is no other entries they will be entitled to 6 points compared with 1 under the old system? Yes And on the flip side if they win a national where there are hundreds of entries they get 25 regardless? No idea I didn't like the old system where baby puppies and absentees are included, but not sure I'm keen on this way either. The ideal for me would be to count the number of actual dogs beaten but that raises the issue of how do you actually control/police it? I'll follow with interest how this will affect each different breed That what will be happening now... Beat 2 dogs, you get 8 points Beat no other dogs, you get 6 points As apposed to the old way where 10 could have be entered and you are the only one who showed, Your CC says 6 points, yet the DOL point score would have said 10. Sorry disagree ... take the example of my boys's daughter ... she won the whippet national with a total entry of 300 from memory, then won anothe specialty in NSW with 150 dogs ... that's 450 dogs (guessing the numbers here), so under the old system she'd have got 450, whereas under the new system she'd get 50 points right? As I said I don't think that there is a better way of doing it to what has been suggested, but those with bigger breeds will be capped at 25 points regardless of what they beat. I have heard of some breeds entering in extra dogs in attempts to get extra points on the pointscore (good luck to them if it means that much and they have extra money to throw about) but I don't think I've ever seen it happens in our breed. Cheers Elly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havasneeze Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Dellcara, the problem is there isn't another certificate for BIG it is a BOB certificate. there is in Victoria ... I have always got a BOB Certificate (with the Breed points) & a BIG Certificate (with 25pts on it) when I've been fortunate to win the Group In NSW we just cross out the points and make it 25 points instead and put Best In Group under the points on the BOB certificate... cheapskates ... tell them to buy the Group cards I have suggested it and was shot down in flames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 You guys don't have group or special certificates up there? We get certificates for everything Breed, challenge, best in group, class in group, best in show, class in show. The NT does use the official BIG & BIS cards, however as they do not contain the judges signature they are not permitted to be used for verification of titles. No alterations are permitted on Challenge Certificates (who is to say that the alteration was made by the challenge writer not by someone after the event). That is why the system Meg described is used, no points are actually recorded on the CC's until that exhibit has been eliminated from further (point gaining) competition. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarrowfell Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Congrats on the New rules. I love the idea of restricting the number of shows and fantastic your have a Neuter pointscore but still confused why only some ANKC titles are included. No points for Rally-O? Flyball? DWD? Surely ALL ANKC titles are worthy of being on the pointscore? I personally think it should either be a Show Dog of the year (Conformation only) or a DOTY (All titles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capanash Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 (edited) GREAT JOB TROY!!! The new results page will cut down own results entry time but must have taken you a lot of time! Thankyou. Also looking forward to entering the Neuter Comp. Edited January 1, 2012 by capanash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 >>>>> PLEASE NOTE - MINOR RULE CHANGE <<<<< The Breed Challenge competition has had a minor rule change since it was first published at the start of December. Only the challenge points awarded for your breed level win are to be submitted. Do not include any extra challenge points that you may have received if you went on to win the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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