Exercising Reactive Dogs Thread

[BC Crazy]

Yes Snook, Prozac didn't work for me either. I think thats another reason why I was hesitant to put Stella on it, as silly as that sounds. And also am terrified she is going to slip backwards again. So hope it works for her. I will tweak the dose accordingly but thought I'd start her very low as you can always move up. I hate it when she is in a medicated daze, as by nature she is extremely bright & bubbly. Loves every inch of life my girl, so trying to avoid that haze at all costs.

Good luck with Justice tomorrow will be thinking of you :)

Quick question to all. Have been looking for a descent trainer for a while now & happen to find a Delta accredited one which am very interested in hiring. Was wondering what you folks look for when looking for a good trainer? What do you think are things I should ask/look for ??? I'm looking for private lessons for both my guys. Maybe weekly at first as I'm not a motivated training type person so I need someone to help make it happen. I also need to make sure they are experienced with reactivity of course.

Any ideas much appreciated :)

[raineth]

Goodluck Stella! Sounds like she is amanging really well at this point BC Crazy :)

So you're just tapering off one med and tapering on to another?

Goodlcuk with Justice's play date tomorrow, Snook. Although I'm sure he doesn't need it :) I bet it will go very well.

[BC Crazy]

Raineth, yes more or less. She will still have Kalma when she is struggling with noise. Thunderstorms & crackers bring her undone as any loud noise does really. Even heavy rain & loud music.

[Staff'n'Toller]

Back when I did the course, there was an emphasis on it not being suitable to students who have never had any experience in dog training. One lady was asked to leave in the first few days of our residential segment as she didn't own a dog and it was clear she'd hardly come across a dog lead, let alone with a dog on the end of it.

I have no idea how it is now, but have heard very recently that they are not keen on methods from the US trainers doing stuff like BAT, as one example. However reports from students with the other major RTO would make you believe they are no different.

You'll find Delta trainers who are indoctrinated, and due to their membership in the Professional Org (if it still runs?) can't do anything else.

Then there's others who've worked in a variety of clubs and have their Cert IV qually as it's professionally important, but also take bits and pieces from lots of methods.

If a trainer had done the Delta course but had very little experience in reactive dogs previously or thereafter without a mentor, I would prefer they referred to a Veterinary Behaviourist than try to deal with behaviours out of their league.

I get the feeling Delta trainers are spending more time in person and via the interwebs interacting with Veterinary Behaviourists now, and that the VB's see there is a place for these trainers in initial behaviour management with a plan to refer if necessary, whereas before it was a bit of an 'us and them' atmosphere.

Edited for clarification.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Staff'n'Toller

[dididog]

I am so glad we have a behaviourist coming out next week, it's scary how fast these things unravel. Last week before our vet incident Didi was a little headshy and flighty but otherwise okay. Now she is a completely different dog outside our house

I took her to the oval for a run around and we were having fun and she was enjoying herself when it was only us there. Then an elderly man with a stick started walking around the oval and she caught a glimpse of him while still 200m away and just froze and stared at him intensely and not wanting to risk anything I put the lead back on and we wandered around. While normally she'd have her nosed glued to the ground sniffing she would only sniff for a few seconds and then look over her shoulder at the man for the rest of the time he was there. Then since she hadn't really gotten to run aroynd at the oval I had to take a spin around the block. We passed a few people and I just took her right to the edge by the road and she was fine.

Then when were nearly home I could see a man with two walking sticks and appeared to have some sort of muscular disease as his movements were erratic walking towards us. I couldn't cross the road because there was a constant stream of traffic so I moved to the very furthest side of the verge and got Didi to face me and stuck a handful of treats in her face. At first he just seemed like he would keep walking past but then at the last minute he spoke to me and asked if she was a bulldog and Didi whipped around and backed up into me so I said 'please ignore her and keep going, she doesn't like strangers' and tried pulling Didi as far away as possible but of course now she was on alert and even though he stopped approaching us he still had to walk past us and Didi started barking and jumping backward.

I got her attention once he'd passed and waited till she was not as tense, did some high-fives to get her mind off it and kept going and we passed some other people with little to no reaction. It's just the moment she thinks they might approach her that she gets worried.

I'm supposed to be making sure she has no chance to have more reactions til our behaviourist sees us but it's so hard to completely avoid people even on quiet streets at non peak times. :/

[hankdog]

My first PTS recommendation was from a Delta trainer, my impression is they're great for normal dogs but not really for our nutcases. My experience is to go with someone who has no one specific method. Someone who will work with drugs, prongs, BAT and everything else. Basically someone who starts at the dog not at a method.

Stella is probably as far out the box as Jake so you need someone open minded and who will love her for what she is so you don't end up feeling like you have to defend her right to be here.

I think it's important that they're working out of a large facility as well. The trainers operating out of the local park or their front yard just can't offer our dogs the space they need. Just my own experience and no disrespect to the trainers that operate that way but when there's a whole lot of crazy you need space and fences.

[dididog]

It's really stressful when our dogs start showing reactive behaviours like that but don't beat yourself up Terri, you're doing a great job. Whether it's dogs or people that are the trigger, it's so incredibly hard to ensure you never encounter them at a close distance when you're out walking and you've done all the right things by putting Didi back on leash when you saw the first man and moving her off the path and using treats to keep her focus on you when you saw the second man. It's not your fault that the man stopped and all you could do was ask him to keep moving and try to calm Didi down, which you did. Just keep doing what you're doing until your appointment with Steve and continue to try and minimise the chances of coming in to contact with people. Perhaps ovals and empty carparks and the like might be a better option that the streets as at least you should have more of an opportunity to keep a good distance between Didi and anyone you see, which means that although she may go on alert and be stressed she hopefully won't feel the need to cross that line in to barking and carrying on. Hang in there as you don't have long to go until you can get some help. :)

Thanks, I read this thread quite a bit so I had a vague idea what to do when the second man walked past us and she almost didn't react but I think his walking sticks and weird gate just pushed her past being able to let it go. Will probably stick to the oval from now on although it's a no-go on weekends so might have to drive her somewhere else. I can't wait for Wednesday!

[Taliecat]

Thanks, I read this thread quite a bit so I had a vague idea what to do when the second man walked past us and she almost didn't react but I think his walking sticks and weird gate just pushed her past being able to let it go. Will probably stick to the oval from now on although it's a no-go on weekends so might have to drive her somewhere else. I can't wait for Wednesday!

Is there anyway you'd be able to round up some crutches or walking sticks and a few friends/family members and do some positive associations around those types of items with Didi? And then perhaps move onto the friends/family assisting with familiarising her with people walking with assistance.

[dididog]

Thanks, I read this thread quite a bit so I had a vague idea what to do when the second man walked past us and she almost didn't react but I think his walking sticks and weird gate just pushed her past being able to let it go. Will probably stick to the oval from now on although it's a no-go on weekends so might have to drive her somewhere else. I can't wait for Wednesday!

Is there anyway you'd be able to round up some crutches or walking sticks and a few friends/family members and do some positive associations around those types of items with Didi? And then perhaps move onto the friends/family assisting with familiarising her with people walking with assistance.

I don't think it would be a great idea to start any kind of counter conditioning and desensitisation work like this prior to Terri's consultation with Steve next week. There is a reasonable chance that Didi will be pushed over threshold in the process and it may end up back firing, worsening Didi's behaviour. Based on what Terri also posted in another thread about Didi's response to a vet receptionist trying to check for a microchip (although granted this was done very poorly) and when another person in the clinic tried to pat Didi, I suspect the issue goes beyond being about the walking sticks and needs to be assessed by a professional before any training programs are implemented.

I'm actually seeing Judi from proK9 in Melbourne not Steve but yes you're right Snook, I also am not doing anything until I meet with her and she assesses the situation. It's very delicate atm and I think we are balancing on the edge of this behaviour becoming very ingrained in Didi and I don't want to be working against that.

[BC Crazy]

Snook, SNT & Hankdog, thanks for your advice on finding a trainer. So glad I asked actually because you all thought of things I wouldn't of like going to watch a class first for one.

I'm very motivated to learn but a bit overcome with training actually.

We don't have much of a choice in our area as far as trainers go unfortunately & the few we have I wouldn't use or have already tried & with one in particular, I knew more than she did. Gosh I was disappointed. She was a school teacher who liked dogs actually. GREAT.... & she was frightened of Stella. So you understand my wariness when it comes to getting a capable trainer.

So this Delta accredited girl is only quite new & she is young. I'm still unsure about it. Might email her & ask what other experience she has had with dogs besides Delta then.

Terri, good luck with K9 Pro. I hope your boy settles down for you. I totally understand how very unnerving it can be when your dog begins to show signs of reactivity. I tended to lose confidence as well which doesn't help the situation.

Edited August 20, 2014 by BC Crazy

[hankdog]

I have "play with Pax" envy. Play must be such an important learning tool for dogs. I can get a game of bitey face with pillow out of Jake but nothing else. They look so happy and I'm so glad to see Justice having fun.

Interested to know about the DVD sounds like it coukd be quite good.

Edited August 21, 2014 by hankdog

[BC Crazy]

What a great time Justice & pax had Snook So pleased for you. They had such a blast together. I love watching the clips of them playing. Just lovely. This may very well be exactly what Justice needs. Such a huge confidence builder for a reactive dog IMHO. Made my day, such success :D

Interested to know your thoughts on that DVD as well.

Edited August 21, 2014 by BC Crazy

[grumpette]

Absolutely brilliant. I am so very happy for the both of you. It restores a lot of hope and faith in the future when you see your reactive dog having a great time with another dog. Awesome.

[BC Crazy]

Snook, I have always found it so surprising just how dogs rebound off a bad experience at times. They tend not to hold onto bad things like we do. Amazing really. Dogs are though aren't they :)

[raineth]

I am so glad we have a behaviourist coming out next week, it's scary how fast these things unravel. Last week before our vet incident Didi was a little headshy and flighty but otherwise okay. Now she is a completely different dog outside our house

I took her to the oval for a run around and we were having fun and she was enjoying herself when it was only us there. Then an elderly man with a stick started walking around the oval and she caught a glimpse of him while still 200m away and just froze and stared at him intensely and not wanting to risk anything I put the lead back on and we wandered around. While normally she'd have her nosed glued to the ground sniffing she would only sniff for a few seconds and then look over her shoulder at the man for the rest of the time he was there. Then since she hadn't really gotten to run aroynd at the oval I had to take a spin around the block. We passed a few people and I just took her right to the edge by the road and she was fine.

Then when were nearly home I could see a man with two walking sticks and appeared to have some sort of muscular disease as his movements were erratic walking towards us. I couldn't cross the road because there was a constant stream of traffic so I moved to the very furthest side of the verge and got Didi to face me and stuck a handful of treats in her face. At first he just seemed like he would keep walking past but then at the last minute he spoke to me and asked if she was a bulldog and Didi whipped around and backed up into me so I said 'please ignore her and keep going, she doesn't like strangers' and tried pulling Didi as far away as possible but of course now she was on alert and even though he stopped approaching us he still had to walk past us and Didi started barking and jumping backward.

I got her attention once he'd passed and waited till she was not as tense, did some high-fives to get her mind off it and kept going and we passed some other people with little to no reaction. It's just the moment she thinks they might approach her that she gets worried.

I'm supposed to be making sure she has no chance to have more reactions til our behaviourist sees us but it's so hard to completely avoid people even on quiet streets at non peak times. :/

That does sound like a stressful experience Terri, but honestly it sounds like you handled it well.

Might be a time to walk really early in the morning, to avoid people until your consult with Erny.

[raineth]

Snook,

I am so pleased to see Justice having such a good time with Pax. Definitely a huge positive step for him.

He just looks so relaxed and happy :)

[raineth]

Raineth, yes more or less. She will still have Kalma when she is struggling with noise. Thunderstorms & crackers bring her undone as any loud noise does really. Even heavy rain & loud music.

Sounds like a good plan :)

How did you go asking the trainer whether she had had much experience with reactive dogs?

[hankdog]

I would say reactive dogs and also bite work training. The trainers that have been unfazed by Jake both do extensive work with the big, bitey dogs. Not sure if it's schutzhund?

I guess if you're used to the big Rotties and malinois looking all agitated and bitey a little bulldog or border collie doesn't seem so bad.

[BC Crazy]

Well I'm thinking of widening my search for a trainer. I think what you are saying makes sense to me Hankdog. I need someone who is very experienced but also a bit unfazed or unflappable as well. Like there are lots of normal trainers that do great work with non-reactive dogs but truly would be very out of their depth with Stella I feel.

So I'm going to keep searching.

[BC Crazy]

Thanks Snook, the way I'm going I'm going to need it.

I found a really good trainer this morning. Had experience with very reactive dogs, 26 years experience Blah Blah

Shame he is in OHIO :laugh:

Edited August 23, 2014 by BC Crazy