Simply Grand Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 That is interesting to know. I will read the BC standard to educate myself and understand the differences from the Aussie Shep standard. I hope we can withhold judgement on Collie chaos' pup and the breeder unless we know more about them. A thread from a soon to be Aussie puppy owner the other day upset both the puppy buyer and the breeder, also a DOL member, when some assumptions were made based on limited info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 SG, I don't think either Dancinbcs or myself have yet slammed any breeder in particular and no kennel names were mentioned. I don't know where CC has gotten their puppy from, but I do hope they have done careful research on breeders, the standard and have not been ripped off by paying extortion amounts for a merle (or any other colour for that matter). There is a colleague at work who bought a blue/white or lilac/white bc from a registered (colour) breeder. That dog is currently on death row due to a serious heart murmur costing the owners thousands of dollars. The pup may not survive the next two weeks. Because it was a "rare" colour they paid extra and have now had to deal with the bad health and expensive surgery to correct this. The pup is only 9 months old. It really irks a lot of breeders (show politics aside) of some of these breeders breeding colour without any consideration for the health, temperament and breed standard. Colour and the money they can make is more important than producing quality healthy puppies. Whether the breeder of CC's pup falls into this category, I don't know. I hope not. Personally I don't care who the breeder is... if they are not breeding for health, temperament, and correct structure, then they should not be breeding. If they are breeding for "pets" then they should be making sure those pets are still healthy and are of quality. On the whole, some of the breeders who are breeding for colour, really need to clean up their act a lot. It is through education and topics like this, that we can hopefully educate other readers and not just the OP, what things they need to look out for and not be suckered in by the sugar coated tongues of some of these "breeders". The photos I posted were from a QLD website outside of Victoria where the OP is situated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollieChaos Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks for the tips guys, from the sounds of things, it should be fully pigmented in time, his parents/grandparents had normal pigmentation, so hopefully he follows suit :) Sid is A-DORABLE! His little colour patch looks like a little doggy yamaka! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Best of luck with him. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) MV, I don't think anyone has said anything against anyone in particular yet either, just didnt want this thread going the way of the other one, doesn't look like it will :) I do understand and agree with everything you've said above, especially that breeding for a "popular" colour should be the last thing to put ahead of health, temperament and conformation. I certainly have no time for anyone who charges more for particular colours. Ooo, also just realised today's the day for Collie Chaos, I'll check the puppy thread for pics. Edited January 24, 2013 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Dancinbcs, I'm surprised to hear that even Merle well bred BCs shoul have a fully pigmented nose by 6 weeks. I know Aussie Sheps are a different breed, but given that their colour genetics are so similar I'm surprised because the Aussie standard allows up to 12 months for "final" pigmentation. I'm not doubting you, just saying I'm surprised, and wondering why it's so different. I was talking about solids. No one mentioned anything about merles and the number of what I call well bred merles is very, very few. I could almost count the actual dogs on one hand and have only ever seen 3 in the showring here. Most merles come from coloured puppy farmers who breed only for colour, not quality. Regardless of the fact that a lot of merles do lack pigment the breed standard still says "The nose colour in all dogs will be a solid colour with no pink or light pigment, and shall complement the background colour of the dog." Agree. Merle has fast become a fad "colour" in BC's and with any of the fads people are being ripped off accordingly. There are some very questionable breeders breeding the merle to any thing without taking into consideration the breed standard at minimum. In some cases I have seen near all pink noses with very little pigmentation at all even up to an adult. I have also seen an increasing amount of excess white being produced and in some cases, all white heads and excess body white. In a couple of cases, deaf puppies being produced. I would personally stay clear of any breeder breeding merle to red/white. I know of one case of a merle to merle litter being bred from genetic merle parents and producing deaf puppies. Hear, Hear!! Incomplete pigmentation is highly undesirable in a working dog, especially in a climate such as ours. A breed standard does not just describe pretty show dogs, it describes a functional breed of dog, fit for the purpose it was developed for. Many "breeders" would not know a standard it they fell over it!! Merle to red and white is very risky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I have not seen the photos of the puppy and have no idea where it is coming from but hope both parents have been DNA tested for all three conditions and hip/elbow scored and that the breeder knows what they are doing with the merle gene, because most breeding it have no idea about the genetics. Regardless of the colour of any puppy of any breed, I would not buy a puppy with incomplete pigment of the nose and especially eye rims in this country due to the high risk of skin cancer. If the nose has a tiny spot left to pigment it will come with age but bigger patches may not. Eye rims are really important as there is no way to protect them with any suncreen or cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollieChaos Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Through my retardation and probable tired puppy brain i never realised there was a second page to this thread when I replied to it. I am sorry for not addressing the concerns raised in the posts on this page. Thankyou for the concerns about where I got him from, its nice to know that there are good breeders out there trying to make sure everything is done right by the dog :) His parents have definately had the appropriate health testing, his mum is a black tri, and his dad is a chocolate merle. I paid the exact same price as I would have if he was a black and white pup. His nose pigmentation has also increased since we got him last week. His eye rims are completely dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Gorgeous boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) He's beautiful !! Edited January 30, 2013 by Jules❤3Cavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 He's beautiful :) I thought I read somewhere that there is something you can supplement them with to help increase the pigment. Not sure but it might have been Kelp. Maybe someone else here can clarify that. Welcome to the wonderful world of Border Collies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 He's beautiful :) I thought I read somewhere that there is something you can supplement them with to help increase the pigment. Not sure but it might have been Kelp. Maybe someone else here can clarify that. Welcome to the wonderful world of Border Collies I've supplemented with kelp to help nose pigmentation come back after a dog bite (SWF next door stuck its head under the fence and when Cole went and said hello it went crunch and skinned his nose). The pigmentation did come back though it took several months. His pigmentation was good before the accident so probably would have come back without the kelp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollieChaos Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thanks for the tip Sheena, I might google it to see if there are any other recommendations :) Thanks for the welcome as well ;) I'm already amazed at how smart he is! On his first day of me training him to do commands, he learnt sit and drop, and now does both reliably, on the second day he learnt stand and today he learnt touch (touch his nose to my hand). He's a wonder dog! He's 9 weeks old today :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I was going to say he looks like a clever boy already! That expression, he's already doing the "really mum?" face :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) I’m also interested as to how to treat this. When we first got spud at 8 weeks he had minimal pigment on his nose. Now at nearly 1 year it was darkened up significantly but I still get worried about around his eyes and his pink skin in general! The pics show his nose and face as a baby and the difference in it now ( excuse the muddy look lol ) Edited January 31, 2013 by miss2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollieChaos Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yea hes got that look perfected. He doesnt really like going down the stairs, so he will just sit at the top and stare at me *sigh* I can tell when hes sick of training too because he will get distracted by the kitties lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Miss2, it's usually caused by genetics rather than being an illness you treat. You can get non-toxic dog sunscreen, or keep him out of the sun if he gets burnt. Other than that you can only hope more pigment develops as he ages. His nose has darkened quite a bit. Kelp and livamol both can improve pigment in dogs but they can't create it where there is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I've going no advice in regards to the pigment, but he is just super adorable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Thanks greytmate! Yep I meant treatment as in the sunscreen I'm just a bit reluctant to put it round his eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss2 Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Colliechaos your boy is stunning :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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