The Saddest Thing About Purebred Dog Lovers

[SkySoaringMagpie]

There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

Sounds a bit odd to me, why would you want your dogs out there getting a reputation for being infertile?

[Salukifan]

There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

Sounds a bit odd to me, why would you want your dogs out there getting a reputation for being infertile?

I'd have thought there would still be a pretty obvious surgical wound on the bitches

Edited June 3, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[inez]

There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

Sounds a bit odd to me, why would you want your dogs out there getting a reputation for being infertile?

I'd have thought there would still be a pretty obvious surgical wound on the bitches

There was. They were all bitches, I only found out because I spotted the marks as the puppies were rolling and playing, and said. Ho what a pity they all had hernias? She blushed and said, "no they've been desexed."

then the new owners arrived and as she handed them their papers I could see they were all main registered, and I asked why desex them if they are main register? She said "they all wanted their pup on main register, but only want it as a pet, they said they only wanted to option to decide, if, they might want to breed down the track." Then laughed.

We were at an interschool sporting day and she had arranged for thir new owners to pick them up at the sports oval so she didnt miss watching her kids while she waited.

I was pretty astonished anyone would desex a puppy that young let alone a whole litter or do that to the buyers. Often wondered if she got sued.

Edited June 3, 2013 by inez

[Yonjuro]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

I have no doubt that most vets will encourage desexing of family pets , not everyone shows or is a registered breeder so recommending desexing seems like a responsible bit of advice - go figure. Neither this nor PETA are indications that the sky is falling.

[inez]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

I have no doubt that most vets will encourage desexing of family pets , not everyone shows or is a registered breeder so recommending desexing seems like a responsible bit of advice - go figure. Neither this nor PETA are indications that the sky is falling.

Except from day one she told him they were main registered and had no wish to desex them. So where do you get the idea he thought they were solely family pets?

Edited June 3, 2013 by inez

[Jed]

And that, intrepid reader, is why there will be few or no purebred dogs in Australia in 10 years. No one is going to ban dog ownership, that is not vote friendly. What is happening is that legislations which is not suitable to registered breeders is being mooted and as it succeeds, more breeders walk away.

Check out the legislation in Vic. I know personally two show breeders who have been told they may no longer whelp pups in their house, they must adhere to the regulations, and build kennels for whelping, with concrete floors and septic tanks, and put in proper applications. One has been told she may no longer whelp pups on her property at all, altough she has been doing it for 30 odd years.

They have 4 and 6 dogs. The dogs would never live in the kennels, and the cost is beyond both of them, and they don't want kennel dogs

Councils are in Vic reducing dog numbers allowed - most shire seem to have a limit of 2 or 4.

The rules mooted for NSW would be laughable, if it wasn't so serious.

It does not matter how wonderful purebred dogs are,or how wonderfully breeders breed them, the aim is to get rid of them. I very much doubt that the Queen, PM etc are even aware.

These changes are being brought in in the name of "animal welfare

Corvus

Who is "they"? I have never met anyone who wants to stop people having pets, and I'm neck deep in the animal welfare industry at the moment. I know people who think zoos are a major welfare issue, and it's unethical to eat meat, and we should do away with purebred animals (although they would never be bothered trying to legislate it), but I've never met anyone who wants to do away with pets

They are Anmal Rights. Peta, AA, who have committee members of most of the organisations framing laws,or reporting to government. Of course they arent going to carry banners around, and they are not visibly trying to prevent "pet ownership" - they a re trying to drive breeders out so there will be no pets.

Corvus,you obviously don't read the publications these items feature in, and you don' speak to the people who will be primarily affected.

Ingrid Newkirk

In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of pets altogether.

Newsday, 1988February 21

I dont use the word 'pet.' I think its speciesist language. I prefer 'companion animal.' For one thing, we would no longer allow breeding. People could not create different breeds. There would be no pet shops. If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship enjoyment at a distance.

The Harper's Forum Book, Jack Hitt, ed., 1989, p.223

And that is where "companion animal"came from, to replace "pets" or "dogs and cats". The connotation for companion animal is very different frm pets

And because I don't see bloodshed in Syria doesn't mean it doesn't happen

Buyers are buying Maltese x Shih Tze or Poodles because there are in sufficient purebreds to fill the market - just 305 Maltese were bred last year compared to 1,854 in 1986

Dog numbers generally have dropped drasrically, and continue to drop, from 15,503 pups in 1986, to 9,207 last year.

Yeah, I know about the other reasons for leaving, and natural attrition - but there should be a relative increse in new breeders breeding.

Not happening.

10 years

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jed

[Yonjuro]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

I have no doubt that most vets will encourage desexing of family pets , not everyone shows or is a registered breeder so recommending desexing seems like a responsible bit of advice - go figure. Neither this nor PETA are indications that the sky is falling.

Except from day one she told him they were main registered and had no wish to desex them. So where do you get the idea he thought they were solely family pets?

I wrongly assumed from your post that you were saying 'all vets' say all dogs should be desexed. It does at face value seem like your sister's vet is very single minded and I can understand your view which has probably been formed from experiences such as this. This being said, my experience with Vets and registered breeders has been overwhelmingly positive and as such I am confident that registered breeders will be around for a very long time.

[Jed]

PS - Inez, I cannot understand why, when the statistics are out there, the proposed legislation is out there, the new regulations are out there, people will not believe this is happening.

Scottish Fold cat breeding is banned in Australia.

The Dutch parliament tried to legislate to prevent the future breeding of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels .... Cavalier Spaniel owners from around the world protested, and breeding is now allowed to continue.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jed

[inez]

PS - Inez, I cannot understand why, when the statistics are out there, the proposed legislation is out there, the new regulations are out there, people will not believe this is happening.

Scottish Fold cat breeding is banned in Australia.

The Dutch parliament tried to legislate to prevent the future breeding of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels .... Cavalier Spaniel owners from around the world protested, and breeding is now allowed to continue.

Can only hope there is a dog breeds dna bank like the world seed bank so maybe some day they can be brought back for our descendants to enjoy loving as much as we did? Looks like they will be long gone, before the ostrich's pull their heads out of the sand.

[sandgrubber]

Who is "they"? I have never met anyone who wants to stop people having pets, and I'm neck deep in the animal welfare industry at the moment. I know people who think zoos are a major welfare issue, and it's unethical to eat meat, and we should do away with purebred animals (although they would never be bothered trying to legislate it), but I've never met anyone who wants to do away with pets (or livestock) period. It's a 6 billion dollar industry in Australia, and increasing. There are a lot of stakeholders involved. Maybe people should check out some places that do have a lot of animal-related legislation, like Sweden. Despite pet ownership being highly regulated in that country, there are still dog breeders there, and I don't think there is another country that is more proactive in improving breeding practices and breeding pedigree dogs that are sound in body and temperament. What is happening in Australia is not unprecedented, and nor is it extreme. In Sweden it took some refinement of guidelines before they got it right. They did actually adjust regulations that turned out to be impractical.

I can't imagine the Swedes making it difficult for a hobby breeder who chooses to raise litters in the spare bedroom, and I don't think they regulate matters such as how many times a bitch can be bred. They do have some pretty strict regulations on 'professional breeders' (it looks like the rules for dogs are similar to those for livestock), and some rules you don't see in the US, UK or Oz, eg:" It shall be prohibited to own or breed dogs which:

1. are exceptionally aggressive; 2. are irritable and bite; 3. are difficult to restrain once they have started an attack; and 4. are inclined to direct their aggression at people or other dogs. Ordinance (see www.government.se/content/1/c6/09/03/10/f07ee736.pdf‎). I may be missing something, but I think Sweden's laws generally do help animal welfare without meddling deeply in hobby breeder's rights. Ok, there's docking of tails and ears, but that affects appearance only, not the essential parts of dog breeding.

[gwp4me]

Just looked up Peta's page, they are working on something, assuming after reading this: Animal Rights Uncompromised.

http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/pets.aspx

http://www.peta.org/about/why-peta/responsible-breeders.aspx

Edited June 3, 2013 by gwp4me

[The Spotted Devil]

Anyone interested can google osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats. Every fold eared cat will develop this to some extent. The Cat Fancy of Great Britain excluded the breed in the '70s due to the health issues. Do we really need to breed for a painful genetic mutation?

[Steve]

Anyone interested can google osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats. Every fold eared cat will develop this to some extent. The Cat Fancy of Great Britain excluded the breed in the '70s due to the health issues. Do we really need to breed for a painful genetic mutation?

Agreed - however the issue is this was banned by law not a Fancy in Victoria and that brings new things into play.

Why didnt the Australia fancies self regulate and ban them without government intervention , why have other state's Fancy members been able to continue? If it is to be government intervention over self regulation who will make the decisions, based on what criteria and how?

Can any of you really see the ANKC banning the breeding of any breed or genetic characteristic without a law and with only self regulation? clutching at what they can do to appear to care about the welfare of animals they have introduced restrictions on when a bitch can be bred and which dog she cant be bred to with disregard for science but that wont help at all - in fact it makes it worse. Eventually there will be legal intervention. No way out of it and the stage is set especially in Victoria to simply add them in to existing laws without the need for debate or parliamentary looks and momentum for that is building.

Instead constantly looking out and blaming those things impacting we need to focus on the positive things WE do - stop giving into them and stand our ground - exposing some of what is being pushed as ill informed and crap.

Ive recently had the honour of speaking individually with numerous purebred breeders, some of whom are working with breeds in development and without exception they are inspirational , the work they do to ensure their breeds will continue on with animals with great quality of life is outstanding and breeders like that will never be shut down by any outside interference .Its those things we need to be talking about in forums such as this. Problem is saying one breeder is doing a good job usually leads to dozens disputing that .

If animal rights have been successful at anything its destroying any chance of unity and without unity and combined voices even if there are some things which we all don't agree on there is only a whisper to fight it.

[Jed]

Anyone interested can google osteochondrodysplasia in Scottish Fold cats. Every fold eared cat will develop this to some extent. The Cat Fancy of Great Britain excluded the breed in the '70s due to the health issues. Do we really need to breed for a painful genetic mutation?

Cavaliers are prone to developing syringomyelia. The cause is not known, and there is no cure. Basically the dog's head hurts all the time. So, there is no reason for not banning them which is what the Dutch parliament did.

2% of Cavaliers are affected in Aus, more overseas. Many other toy breeds develop SM too, but there is no publicity about that.

Edited to say - Unfortunately, Steve, AR divided the dog fancy 20 years ago so it would not be as strong, or as difficult to overcome. And of course we have our differences too. Once there was no shame attached to not showing. There was no shame in having 3 or 4 litters a year. The only criteria was that the dogs were well cared for. There were no puppy farms either and registered breeders tended to not worry about byb.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jed

[The Spotted Devil]

I don't think breeding Scottish Folds is banned per se? I *think* the legislation says that you cannot breed fold to fold plus any fold kitten buyers MUST be informed of the early onset arthritis etc and cats must be checked regularly by vets. Cats hide pain very well and, seeing as the disease is inevitable I think this is fair. The point of the legislation is to catch out unregistered breeders too - there were fold kittens being sold in pet shops (presumably for good $$$) and there nothing the governing bodies could put in place. I doubt you are going to get national POCTA legislation anytime soon so yes it will be state based.

[The Spotted Devil]

Jed, 100% of fold cats will suffer some form of this disease.

[Steve]

Im happy to be corrected but as far as I know you cant breed Scottish Fold Cats in Victoria - dont have time at the moment to look it up.

[moosmum]

The people who own the 33 million pets in Australia?

And that's where it's possible to be proactive. Get the information to the consumers.... about companion dogs & how they're best bred and raised to be so. Information that's based on evidence.

CHOICE (the Australian Consumers' Association) took a first step back in 2006 with their advice on how to buy a dog. Gently & rationally, they point people towards registered breeders... & to responsible rescue. Away from a 'farming' style of producing puppies. With a little tweaking to add more explicit evidence .... like socialisation of both puppies & mother dogs, & what constitutes a home-style setting .... this kind of information should be got out to the public.

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx

Better information will allow pet owners vote with their feet when getting a puppy/dog. And also gather support for criticism of any proposed laws that could reduce the best sources for getting sound companion dogs.

This. There is a huge un tapped human resource thats being ignored.

We are ALL focused on cases that are used to illustrate a need for regulation.

Its not just peta using these tactics. Many of us here use the same to denigrate non ANKC breeders.They in turn use the same against pedigree breeders.Shocking things happen and they will always happen,but we aren't hearing about how people are spending more than ever on their pets care and veterinary treatment or any other positive change in pet ownership.There are plenty. People are much more aware of animal welfare issues and society is changing .

While every one is busy pointing the finger at where legislation is needed, none are promoting practices that are shown to work for both welfare and pet buyers.Regardless of whether they are ANKC or not.

Edited June 4, 2013 by moosmum

[Steve]

The people who own the 33 million pets in Australia?

And that's where it's possible to be proactive. Get the information to the consumers.... about companion dogs & how they're best bred and raised to be so. Information that's based on evidence.

CHOICE (the Australian Consumers' Association) took a first step back in 2006 with their advice on how to buy a dog. Gently & rationally, they point people towards registered breeders... & to responsible rescue. Away from a 'farming' style of producing puppies. With a little tweaking to add more explicit evidence .... like socialisation of both puppies & mother dogs, & what constitutes a home-style setting .... this kind of information should be got out to the public.

http://www.choice.co...ying-a-dog.aspx

Better information will allow pet owners vote with their feet when getting a puppy/dog. And also gather support for criticism of any proposed laws that could reduce the best sources for getting sound companion dogs.

This. There is a huge un tapped human resource thats being ignored.

We are ALL focused on cases that are used to illustrate a need for regulation.

Its not just peta using these tactics. Many of us here use the same to denigrate non ANKC breeders.They in turn use the same against pedigree breeders.Shocking things happen and they will always happen,but we aren't hearing about how people are spending more than ever on their pets care and veterinary treatment or any other positive change in pet ownership.There are plenty. People are much more aware of animal welfare issues and society is changing .

While every one is busy pointing the finger at where legislation is needed, none are promoting practices that are shown to work for both welfare and pet buyers.Regardless of whether they are ANKC or not.

Not everyone is pointing the finger at where legislation is needed and some ARE promoting practices that are shown to work for both welfare and pet buyers regardless of whether they are ANKC or not My link

[Guest Wildthing]

It isn't just Fold Cats that have problems. Manx also, particulary when tail less to tail less are bred. The resulting Manx Bowel Syndrome results. I am currently dealing with one that was bred by an unregistered breeder in NSW. This breeder is know in the cat fancy world, but nothing can be done about them. Do not think that they should be allowed to continue to breed such cats that go on to suffer. I have to wonder if they inform kitten buyers about the problem.