Seperating Dog Fights

[aussiecattledog]

Hi, I'm new to this online community and I'm a young dog enthusist, right now I own my first dog (a georgous white cattledog/kelpie cross) and I'd like to ask all the dog breeders, trainers and handlers out there about what they know about seperating dog fights. As this is my first dog I want to make sure I'm well and truely prepared for resposible ownership, before we got her I read up a hell of a lot about owning a dog. Now I realise there was one thing I missed, probably because the thought of my dog getting into a fight never crossed my mind. I'd like to know how to sepererate a dog fight, I'm quite well aware ont he signs of dog aggression but should an actual fight start I'd have no idea how to berak it up, so could you please help me out? I'm also quite curious to know about dog behaviour when they fight, for example how they might attack another dog in different circumstances, or how they would attack prey differently to another dog. Also which dogs have the strongest bite force, and inparticular, what bite force do Kelpies and Cattle dogs (Blue heelers) have?

It's so great to be part of this online community, and thanks to all those people who answer.

Woof Woof

[Salukifan]

You'll probably get some good tips on this thread but I've got only one:

* Don't put any part of your body you can't live without into the process.

Generally a lot easier to prevent a dog fight than it is to break one up.

[Rozzie]

Search... http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/220520-what-would-be-the-right-thing-to-do/page__hl__%2Bbreaking+%2Bfights

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/215817-dog-attackfight-on-street/page__p__5169714__hl__%2Bbreaking+%2Bfights__fromsearch__1#entry5169714

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/215467-moron-dog-owners/

[sandgrubber]

see also

http://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/search?q=dog+fight

(I like the artwork in this one. Says pretty much what people say in DOL discussions)

[tdierikx]

The most important thing to remember is that the back end of the dog has no teeth... if you are going to pysically intervene (not recommended) - grab the back legs and make like the dog is a wheelbarrow. It's almost impossible for you to get bitten by a dog in the wheelbarrow position - and it reduces the leverage the dog has to keep fighting with another.

As others have mentioned though, prevention of anything happening is always going to be much better than having to stop something that has already started.

T.

[Alison03]

You'll probably get some good tips on this thread but I've got only one:

* Don't put any part of your body you can't live without into the process.

Generally a lot easier to prevent a dog fight than it is to break one up.

Excellent advice Haredown : ))

My husband does the grab and lift, which is grabbing the skin on the back of the neck and near the rump and lifting the dog up and away, it works on medium sized dogs, having had to lift a few off his GSD in the past. He's a big guy though. Preventing a fight is always easier and safer. : )

[ellz]

Sorry but last time somebody here used the "wheelbarrow" position, the dog swung around and latched onto them....and that person is me. It IS possible to be bitten like that!!

I wasn't thinking clearly and didn't approach the skirmish like I normally would, ie break stick in, choke hold on collar and push dogs towards each other. They have to breathe and if you cut off their oxygen supply, they WILL open their mouths to grab a breath and this is the time to quickly separate them.

I have also had success with a hose down the throat or nose or a spray bottle with lemon and water or ammonia and water sprayed in the face. Be careful you don't spray it on yourself or you'll be no help whatsoever.

Editing to add: And yes, definitely easier to prevent fights rather than break them up. And if you do have dogs which are more potentially volatile make sure they always have a collar on!!!

Edited October 28, 2013 by ellz

[Little Gifts]

I have a technique of grabbing a towel and dropping it around the face/eyes and snout of the aggressor and during the fray it can distract that dog long enough that they let go temporarily or end up with towel in their mouth when they are trying to get a better grip I use the opportunity to drag them away by their back legs (wheelbarrowing). The non-aggressor or less aggressor can use the opportunity to escape. Even better if you have two people, once the aggressor loosens grip or lets go for that nano-second, if one person pulls the dog back the other can wrap the towel (or another towel) around their eyes and jaw so no-one can accidentally get bitten and even if that dog gets close to the other again it is hindered in being able to latch on again. I've also used wet towels and they are heavier and work slightly better.

Of course this only works if you have a towel handy. In my backyard we always have at least one draped somewhere because we keep stuff like that available for toad spits or just cleaning up dirty dogs paws before they run in the house. So for us, if we heard a skirmish in the yard we would run out the door, grab a towel, dunk it in one of the dogs water bowls and be there at the fight within seconds all prepared. I also tend to have at least a hand towel (and water) with me on walks so it would also work to a degree if an unknown dog went for one of mine in public.

Having broken up a couple of fights over the years one thing I have to remember is to grip the back legs harder (I find tail lifting too hard) and not be afraid of being rougher with the dogs when it counts. My adrenalin shoots through the roof and I tend to collapse afterwards, totally zapped of all energy and I think it also muddles my thinking a little. Instead of focussing on wounds and who has who and what happened (all the emotionally distressing and draining stuff), I need to simply focus on separation and be more determined to make that physically happen, worrying about what I will find after that is done.

[dragonwoman]

I have a technique of grabbing a towel and dropping it around the face/eyes and snout of the aggressor and during the fray it can distract that dog long enough that they let go temporarily or end up with towel in their mouth when they are trying to get a better grip I use the opportunity to drag them away by their back legs (wheelbarrowing). The non-aggressor or less aggressor can use the opportunity to escape. Even better if you have two people, once the aggressor loosens grip or lets go for that nano-second, if one person pulls the dog back the other can wrap the towel (or another towel) around their eyes and jaw so no-one can accidentally get bitten and even if that dog gets close to the other again it is hindered in being able to latch on again. I've also used wet towels and they are heavier and work slightly better.

Of course this only works if you have a towel handy. In my backyard we always have at least one draped somewhere because we keep stuff like that available for toad spits or just cleaning up dirty dogs paws before they run in the house. So for us, if we heard a skirmish in the yard we would run out the door, grab a towel, dunk it in one of the dogs water bowls and be there at the fight within seconds all prepared. I also tend to have at least a hand towel (and water) with me on walks so it would also work to a degree if an unknown dog went for one of mine in public.

Having broken up a couple of fights over the years one thing I have to remember is to grip the back legs harder (I find tail lifting too hard) and not be afraid of being rougher with the dogs when it counts. My adrenalin shoots through the roof and I tend to collapse afterwards, totally zapped of all energy and I think it also muddles my thinking a little. Instead of focussing on wounds and who has who and what happened (all the emotionally distressing and draining stuff), I need to simply focus on separation and be more determined to make that physically happen, worrying about what I will find after that is done.

Years ago we had a fight on the beach, they had played for an hour but one got too close to the other's owner, dog locked on, after all else failed we carried both into water and dunked offender's head under, he soon let go!! It didn't help the other one's temperament though, gave him the idea he should get in first from then on so I would advise avoiding issues at all costs...................you live and learn

[Pepper21]

I agree with everyone, prevention is the key. That means having a bomb proof recall, not going to dog parks, and having a means of scaring off loose dogs. If you're dog sees that you're capable of fending off strays, she'll be unlikely to react defensively. I've trained one of my dogs to 'go behind'; she stands behind my legs while I deal with the dog. I've heard of people training their dogs to climb trees too.

As a vet nurse, it's not uncommon for dog attack victims to come in with some awful injuries. Their owners are also often sporting some punctures because they attempted to intervene. I honestly would not try to stop the kind of dog fight that's all noise; teeth and slobber flying, posturing etc. Because the dogs are often so stimulated that they'll redirect onto you without even realizing. If there's a hose nearby, or a bucket of water, this is often sufficient at startling them into stopping.

For serious fights (the predatory types, where one or both dogs are hell bent on killing), a spray of water isn't going to do much. If you've got a leash, swing the clip end around one dogs neck (the aggressor), and loop it through the handle. Pull upwards, to literally choke the dog off its target. I've only had to do this once, but it was good in that I didn't have to actually touch either dog, and therefore wasn't bitten. Otherwise, like other threads/posters have mentioned, grabbing the dog by the back legs and pulling/walking backwards is sometimes effective. It may stop the ripping/shaking action that is really how most of the damage occurs.

Having said all that, it's pretty useless if you're up against multiple dogs and are alone. My mum, who is a tiny woman, was walking my husky when she was set upon by 2 Labs. Despite kicking the dogs in the head and ribs, they had my husky on her back in a second and were going to work. Neither had a leash or collar, and the owners were a way off. If my mum had a can of pepper spray, or a big stick, perhaps things would have been different.

[blakkjackal]

If you ever have to break up a fight involving a bull breed dog...

...Don't try to pull them apart. They latch on pretty damn hard and can cause a lot of damage when you're trying to pull the dog off the other one. Keep the dogs steady and either hold them still and wait until the bully changes positions and pull them apart (gotta be quick), or even better, grab a (breaking) stick or whatever skinny hard object that fits between their jaws and pry them open.

Don't do this with other breeds though as they tend to snap and change positions a lot more often, not grab and hold, you'll just end up getting hurt in the process..

[Sandra777]

If you ever have to break up a fight involving a bull breed dog...

...Don't try to pull them apart. They latch on pretty damn hard and can cause a lot of damage when you're trying to pull the dog off the other one. Keep the dogs steady and either hold them still and wait until the bully changes positions and pull them apart (gotta be quick), or even better, grab a (breaking) stick or whatever skinny hard object that fits between their jaws and pry them open.

Don't do this with other breeds though as they tend to snap and change positions a lot more often, not grab and hold, you'll just end up getting hurt in the process..

Wot they said.

And if the other dog is a bull breed type which has 'locked on' bashing it on the head with anything won't do a thing except make it more determined to hold on.

[Pepper21]

'And if the other dog is a bull breed type which has 'locked on' bashing it on the head with anything won't do a thing except make it more determined to hold on.'

I think that's true of any dog though, particularly terriers, not just bull breeds. Bully breeds don't tend to redirect as much as most other breeds, which is a massive advantage in my opinion. That's the reason, as Hockz said, that you can use break sticks on them without fear of a bite.

[Staffyluv]

If you ever have to break up a fight involving a bull breed dog...

...Don't try to pull them apart. They latch on pretty damn hard and can cause a lot of damage when you're trying to pull the dog off the other one. Keep the dogs steady and either hold them still and wait until the bully changes positions and pull them apart (gotta be quick), or even better, grab a (breaking) stick or whatever skinny hard object that fits between their jaws and pry them open.

Don't do this with other breeds though as they tend to snap and change positions a lot more often, not grab and hold, you'll just end up getting hurt in the process..

Wot they said.

And if the other dog is a bull breed type which has 'locked on' bashing it on the head with anything won't do a thing except make it more determined to hold on.

Yep and yep..

Prevention is best - try to avoid situations where it may happen.

Train and socialise your dog the best you can. Only hang with other trained and socialised dogs and their owners..

Years ago we had a meet and greet with our old SBT (male) and a some friends SBT (female)..

The cow of a dog jumped right on his face and wouldn't let go. Her owner was a solid lass and she jumped on her - this did nothing at all.

Here was a little 14kg staffy bitch with a 100kg+ woman on top of her and she still didn't let go. She kept a hold of her to stop her from shaking her head from side to side (which would have ensured much more damage to my lad)..

Eventually she did and we pulled my boy out. Then her owner dived on her again to stop her from coming back..

I swear she only let go to catch her breath..

Ollie had a few puncture wounds but was OK.. It is a scary thing to be involved in.

[tdierikx]

Try being the only one there when 2 nearly 30kg dogs decide to go at it to the death... trust me, the wheelbarrow does work to minimise the damage being done by the aggressor... and if you get the back legs up high enough, there is virtually no chance of the dog biting you before you can throw it as far from you as you can....

There is no way on this planet I'm going anywhere near the bitey bits to stop a dog fight - I've gotten used to having 10 fingers that all work properly.

T.

[ellz]

Try being the only one there when 2 nearly 30kg dogs decide to go at it to the death... trust me, the wheelbarrow does work to minimise the damage being done by the aggressor... and if you get the back legs up high enough, there is virtually no chance of the dog biting you before you can throw it as far from you as you can....

There is no way on this planet I'm going anywhere near the bitey bits to stop a dog fight - I've gotten used to having 10 fingers that all work properly.

T.

Ummmmmm.....I WAS by myself, and it was a fight between two bull breed dogs. Wheelbarrow is essentially useless and I would NEVER do it again. As for throwing the dog....two bull breeds....you'd be throwing TWO dogs!!

[Little Gifts]

Try being the only one there when 2 nearly 30kg dogs decide to go at it to the death... trust me, the wheelbarrow does work to minimise the damage being done by the aggressor... and if you get the back legs up high enough, there is virtually no chance of the dog biting you before you can throw it as far from you as you can....

There is no way on this planet I'm going anywhere near the bitey bits to stop a dog fight - I've gotten used to having 10 fingers that all work properly.

T.

Ummmmmm.....I WAS by myself, and it was a fight between two bull breed dogs. Wheelbarrow is essentially useless and I would NEVER do it again. As for throwing the dog....two bull breeds....you'd be throwing TWO dogs!!

This is why I have to use the towel idea and get as forceful as I can on the back end to kind of off balance steer a dog away. I am not tall enough to get enough up leverage (or flinging leverage!) for a true wheelbarrow and rely on that split second when one dog needs to loosen its jaw to regrip to get them apart. Keeping them apart can be the next challenge. I hope most people never have to experience this anyway.

[Akayla]

In my experience. Stay calm. Try loud vocal correction and clap hands. If they keep going go get a bucket or hose of cold water. If they keep going and you are willing to risk injury try the wheel barrow. If they keep going which has happened to me with large dogs, drag to a doorway and close door/gate what ever on muzzles (so one in one out). Also if you have one handy a folded chair between them can work. Be aware at any point it can be redirected to you. Be careful.

[korbin13]

Thankfully I haven't had to witness many dog fights. Most notable one was two bitches, I was able to get the attacking dog off, only to have the 'victim' wheel around and grab hold of the dog I was holding. I then had to drag them both to a door and throw one in the house.

Little did I realise how much danger I had put myself in by grabbing their collars, don't think I would do it now.

[Sabbath]

I have scars from separating dogs on two occasions. I'd do it again. Rather have scars than a vet bill or injured dogs. I know this isn't the right answer.