Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I was watching my 2 dogs play this afternoon and noticed how different they are in terms of intelligence and it got me thinking about what makes up a "smart" dog. Odie the frenchie is naturally very stubborn which some could mistake as being dumb. This is far from the truth though, she is very good at problem solving on her own. BUT she is the furthest thing from biddable and only does what I ask if she's certain that there's something in it for her. Hank the GR on the other hand is a little more (*ahem*) simple :laugh: But on the other hand I've taught him so many things and once he has learned a command he never ever ever forgets it. Training him to do something new is a much quicker process as he's just so happy to please. He's also very in tune to human emotions I think, more so than any other dog I've owned. They are both intelligent in their own way but it's interesting how much they differ in this respect. What do you consider to be a "smart" dog? Is it one who picks up new things straight away and is biddable or is it one who is able to think for itself and challenges you? Or is it both? (is it possible to have both? :laugh:) Edited January 28, 2014 by hankodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 * posts picture of Riley and says "not this"...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 What do you consider to be a "smart" dog? Is it one who picks up new things straight away and is biddable or is it one who is able to think for itself and challenges you? Or is it both? (is it possible to have both? :laugh:) Intelligent dogs simply have higher IQs. They are capable of learning more things, faster and applying them better. Biddable dogs are interested in pleasing you. The two characteristics are separate IMO. Both may be present or absent in a dog or a dog may have one of either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 What do you consider to be a "smart" dog? Is it one who picks up new things straight away and is biddable or is it one who is able to think for itself and challenges you? Or is it both? (is it possible to have both? :laugh:) Intelligent dogs simply have higher IQs. They are capable of learning more things, faster and applying them better. Biddable dogs are interested in pleasing you. The two characteristics are separate IMO. Both may be present or absent in a dog or a dog may have one of either. Yep Haredown Whippets!! One of my most intelligent dogs is also my least biddable. My most biddable is the dopiest lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think the level of drive the dog has and therefore it's desire to earn rewards can shape what we would call intelligence. A dog with more pack drive will be more responsive to their handlers, a dog like a beagle that has a strong desire to scent often gets called stubborn or stupid because they are so determined to scent above anything else. Highly driven dogs can be viewed as stupid or stubborn because they lock onto rewards so easily and push themselves to earn reward, captured properly this could also be a dog someone refers to as super intelligent :) We also have to teach our dogs how to learn and a dog that has never been taught how to earn rewards or how to think under pressure can struggle more to learn new things than a dog that has been taught from a puppy how to problem solve. I think dogs that are more instinctive and driven are more likely to be classed as intelligent as they will push themselves to problem solve to earn rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 My two girls are both intelligent but in different ways. I have watched Paige work out how to tilt the lid of a clam pool so that water caught in it runs towards her so she can drink it. She is quick to solve problems but I suspect t that most of that is directed towards taking over the world. Brandi is biddable and trainable, as well as food motivated. She can open doors, steal food, solve puzzle toys, works to please and never forgets what she's been taught. Completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It's interesting living with poodles and whippets. One breed is considered amongst the most intelligent. The other less so. But for sheer ingenuity in getting what THEY want, Whippets are hard to beat. Very cunning thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 LOL, that's pretty much how I find living with a kelpie and a basset Haredown. Bassets aren't considered to be very bright but I'd say she's smarter than she lets on, she just can't be bothered most of the time. She managed to hunt out the bag of fishfood hiding in my bedroom very successfully though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Stan is dumb as a box of rocks but when it comes to food? he's a Rhodes scholar. He can work out any possible way to get food, be that counter surfing or actually sinking his teeth into the door of my new freezer. Maddie on the other hand is sweet and purty...until the beady eyed assassin attacks They are very different but they are lovable...in their own special way :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 LOL, that's pretty much how I find living with a kelpie and a basset Haredown. Bassets aren't considered to be very bright but I'd say she's smarter than she lets on, she just can't be bothered most of the time. She managed to hunt out the bag of fishfood hiding in my bedroom very successfully though! Yup, this is what I wrote in the original post but I deleted it because it was a bit long-winded :laugh: bulldogs aren't considered to be a very smart breed but some of the stuff Odie figures out scares me. She is so cunning sometimes. For example if Hank is playing with a toy that she wants, she will pick up a stick, run around wildly in the yard with it until he chases her and then she will make a mad dash for the toy and disappear with it :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Stan is dumb as a box of rocks but when it comes to food? he's a Rhodes scholar. He can work out any possible way to get food, be that counter surfing or actually sinking his teeth into the door of my new freezer. HW I have the most hilarious image in my mind right now of Stan gnawing away at your shiny new freezer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Maeby Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 My Pug does the opposite of everything I ask him to do, so I've worked out that I have to use reverse psychology on him. Some people think Pugs aren't very smart but I think he's smarter than me :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodoggies2001 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 LOL, that's pretty much how I find living with a kelpie and a basset Haredown. Bassets aren't considered to be very bright but I'd say she's smarter than she lets on, she just can't be bothered most of the time. She managed to hunt out the bag of fishfood hiding in my bedroom very successfully though! Wouldn't that be more accredited to nose rather than brain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Not so sure on this one. Poodles are said to be super intelligent but I find teaching toys anything for the 1st 6 months a bit difficult because they are so silly, want to play a lot, their way, & are not food motivated. My only experience with a working bred was taking a ex neighbours blue heeler to the oval for an hour to train as the dog was ignored, tied up & untrained. I felt sorry for it. 5 months old & that was all it had known imagine my shock & delight when within that hour he was walking on the lead as though he had done it all his life, did a sit every time once he understood & by the end of a week was amazing with all sorts. I found him a new place & they let him go. Made my poodles look like idiots although they weren't. So was he the smart dog by obeying me Or were mine the smart ones by trying to do what they wanted & trying to train me ? Intelligence is shown in different ways. Edited January 28, 2014 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin-Genie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I agree that biddability and intelligence are not the same thing. My Golden Retriever is biddable, learns fast and is mostly predictable. My elkhound, like most spitz breed dogs, is stubborn and has a mind of his own. He finds unique ways of doing things, would sometimes turn a training session into something totally different, and seems to have an innate ability to sense things. He is actually easier to train in the sense that he gets it really quickly. But he wouldn't always do what he is asked to do, or find a different way to do what he is told to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think the level of drive the dog has and therefore it's desire to earn rewards can shape what we would call intelligence. A dog with more pack drive will be more responsive to their handlers, a dog like a beagle that has a strong desire to scent often gets called stubborn or stupid because they are so determined to scent above anything else. Highly driven dogs can be viewed as stupid or stubborn because they lock onto rewards so easily and push themselves to earn reward, captured properly this could also be a dog someone refers to as super intelligent :) We also have to teach our dogs how to learn and a dog that has never been taught how to earn rewards or how to think under pressure can struggle more to learn new things than a dog that has been taught from a puppy how to problem solve. I think dogs that are more instinctive and driven are more likely to be classed as intelligent as they will push themselves to problem solve to earn rewards. Very interesting point huski! Odie the bulldog is extremely driven (mostly by food) whereas Hank is more of a low drive dog. Odie is forever figuring out how to outsmart me to win her rewards quicker which makes training her a challenge. Hank on the other hand perfectly executes any command I teach him almost like a robot dog :laugh: but in terms of problem solving he's definitely not as quick as Odie. I just think it's so interesting how different they are. And funny point about the beagle - my dad brought home a beagle puppy a year ago and he kept telling me on the phone how frustrating it was that he couldn't teach her anything and told me "it's ok, I guess she can't help being a little dumb". When I went to visit a few months ago and met the dog I knew instantly that it was a very very smart cookie, just extremely driven :laugh: I whipped out my trusty clicker and spent some time every day teaching her new things and my dad was amazed, he was convinced it was some kind of witchcraft :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Intelligence in dogs is interesting but is very hard to judge. For example at one stage we owned a GSD X and a deerhound. The GSD X (who we got at 7 months old totally untrained)was constantly alert and very quickly learnt all the normal dog stuff - sit,come, fetch, shake etc. She also learnt very quickly the things she was not meant to do like digging in the garden. Now the deerie who we got at 8 weeks old was totally different - he didn't learn any of the normal dog stuff sit etc despite us trying but he did teach himself to open doors and I could walk towards the back door with the clothes basket and he would (slowly of course) get up and open the door for me to go out however if I wasn't carrying anything he didn't bother. He also invented his own games that involved us - his favourite was when my OH was doing laps in the pool and he walk alongside and at each end he would ask for a paw shake, every so often he would try and trick OH by turning around and going to the other end of the pool -I'm sure he was laughing when he did it. So which dog was the most intelligent - the one who was easily trained to do what we asked or the one who taught himself things that he thought was important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It is the 'lassie' type behaviors that always astound me with my dogs. Like if I go out to feed the dogs and only Poppy is there, she will run off and get Amber. I guess she figured out that she gets fed quicker if Amber is there. Poppy also seems to know by my clothes if we are going out for a walk. Not sure how she knows the difference between gym clothes and walking clothes as they are pretty similar! Have had various border collies over the years alert me to problems with the other dogs and horses. Was out walking once and a friends dog wouldn't cross a river, it couldn't work out how to get over the stepping stones. We were all on the other side. My border collie ran back over, touched it on the nose and walked slowly over the stones to show the other dog how to do it. He had a pretty strong herding instinct so I guess was just wanting everyone to stay together but it was pretty cool to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 So which dog was the most intelligent - the one who was easily trained to do what we asked or the one who taught himself things that he thought was important. Yes, this is what I was getting at in my OP but as always I took the long-winded approach :laugh: My golden retriever has all the attributes on paper that would make him a "smart dog" but I'd hesitate to say he is the more intelligent one out of the 2 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 It is the 'lassie' type behaviors that always astound me with my dogs. Like if I go out to feed the dogs and only Poppy is there, she will run off and get Amber. I guess she figured out that she gets fed quicker if Amber is there. Poppy also seems to know by my clothes if we are going out for a walk. Not sure how she knows the difference between gym clothes and walking clothes as they are pretty similar! Have had various border collies over the years alert me to problems with the other dogs and horses. Was out walking once and a friends dog wouldn't cross a river, it couldn't work out how to get over the stepping stones. We were all on the other side. My border collie ran back over, touched it on the nose and walked slowly over the stones to show the other dog how to do it. He had a pretty strong herding instinct so I guess was just wanting everyone to stay together but it was pretty cool to watch. How cool JulesP, your dogs sound like very very smart cookies! Would love a dog that alerted me to anything strange - the only time Hank alerts me is when Odie is doing something she shouldn't be (like digging holes outside for example) he will run in and bark at me and run back outside, he loves to tattle on her which I find hilarious :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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