Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops? It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose. They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) . Edited October 8, 2014 by Karentrimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home. You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ??? I know of a pedigree champion show dog exhibitor who lives on a 4000 sqm home with 23 dogs. (13 Shih Tzus and 10 Dalmations). My dogs have about 100 plus acres per dog ratio to roam with us when she herd the sheep. All puppies are offered a rehoming policy we only breed one litter per year Just because the females are fertile doesn't mean we breed from her…. Edited October 8, 2014 by Karentrimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) . Edited October 8, 2014 by Karentrimbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 We don't make money, we sell for friends and family and sell any that we cannot home. You say you sell what you can't find homes for.....I would have thought that with any good breeder finding the "right" home would be paramount. What you are saying is that you sell to anybody who comes up with the money regardless of where they are going. I would bet, that a LOT of your dogs end up in places like "Working Dog Rescue" along with the hundreds of other working dog litters that are bred for one of two pups & the rest are discarded. Do you know the difference between an ANKC Registered breeder, who ticks all the boxes, & a puppy farmer ??? In response to the quote from the OP, I hope you also realise that reputable breeders take back any dogs they have bred if the dogs find themselves in need, such as in a pound. If your fifteen bitches had one litter each year of five dogs that would make 75 pups a year. It's a lot of pups to be responsible for. Not saying that you are not a responsible breeder, just wondering that's all. Yes...& that's only if they have average of 5 pups per litter. That's a lot of loving homes to find. What happens to the ones that you can't find suitable & loving homes for A good breeder will go out of their way to find the "right" homes for their pups. Do you health & genetic test your breeding stock?????..... If you read the DEPI code this will answer all your questions. If I passed compliance in April. This shows I am doing something right I am fortunate enough to not work and play around on the farm and look after my kids while my husband works the farm. So I have a lot of time during the day when the kids are at school. This is my hobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: “Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied,” Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops? It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose. They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say… What the hell? Do you know anything about rescue? Very few rescue groups make a profit (maybe only the RSPCA?). Very few have dogs sitting in a shop window either (I personally don't know of any groups who have shop fronts - most dogs live with foster carers or maybe at the shelter till rehomed). Most are lucky to cover the cost of the dogs that come through their door because the majority need medical and behavioural help. And rescue wouldn't exist if existing legislation was actively reducing the number of unwanted dogs - dogs bred by backyard breeders, puppy farmers, oops litters and yes, registered breeders.* I agree with others that this proposal still fails to address the real issue of puppy farmers but don't go flinging your anger at other innocent parties. *Edited to add - I am a supporter of good registered breeders but we all know the reality is some pure bred dogs still end up in rescue that were bred by 'registered' breeders because registration and meeting council requirements don't necessarily equate to ethical breeding standards. Edited October 8, 2014 by Little Gifts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops? It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose. They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say… What the hell? Do you know anything about rescue? Very few rescue groups make a profit (maybe only the RSPCA?). Very few have dogs sitting in a shop window either (I personally don't know of any groups who have shop fronts - most dogs live with foster carers or maybe at the shelter till rehomed). Most are lucky to cover the cost of the dogs that come through their door because the majority need medical and behavioural help. And rescue wouldn't exist if existing legislation was actively reducing the number of unwanted dogs - dogs bred by backyard breeders, puppy farmers, oops litters and yes, registered breeders.* I agree with others that this proposal still fails to address the real issue of puppy farmers but don't go flinging your anger at other innocent parties. *Edited to add - I am a supporter of good registered breeders but we all know the reality is some pure bred dogs still end up in rescue that were bred by 'registered' breeders because registration and meeting council requirements don't necessarily equate to ethical breeding standards. Agree LG. The Glenfield Road Animal Shelter thread in the Urgent Rescues forum is an example of what rescue goes through to help all the unwanted working dogs that find themselves on death row in a pound. to those rescuers who try so hard to clean up other people's messes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied, Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities. It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: “Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied,” Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities. It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. It is not the dog numbers that are an issue It is the people breeding them.. The people breeding them should be required to undergo a test, have their premises inspected and be audited at least once every 6 months (randomly) I would even go as far as having people income tested or making people insure their pets if they are going to breed from them If they do not have a fixed address and they are breeding, they should surrender the dogs. These are laws that should be introduced. We need tougher auditing laws for people that even breed from any number of dogs. Not just persons with over 10 fertile females. Regarding rescue dogs, what I was saying is if you are going to ban dogs bred for profit from pet shop windows, you should be banning the pet shops that sell rescue dogs too.... You either ban one or all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dididog Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: “Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied,” Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities. It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. Sex work is a legitimate occupation, your moral objections to it does not necessarily equate to somebody being incapable of caring for animals. I don't really think there's enough information on this poor woman's breeding practices for you to use her as an example and I think she's suffered enough without needing to be further vilified, perhaps use one of your other hundreds of other examples instead. Also I don't think high-rise apartments rule people out of being ethical breeders if they only have one male and female that are toy breeds. Also as for rescue pups and kittens in petshops... the pet shops don't really profit from them, they are merely used as a platform by rescues and shelters to find homes. Anyone wanting to purchase one would still need to undergo the same checks as if they were getting the dog directly from the shelter or rescue as they don't belong to the petshop. I don't think it's in anyway comparable to pet shop puppies and does not harbor the same negative elements that puppies born in horrible conditions, shipped all across the country and sold for ridiculous prices to anyone willing to buy them does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Beautifully said Terri. Karen, I was having trouble making sense of what you were trying to say before but bringing in that specific tragic case as any sort of representation of anything to do with the impact of legislation on dog breeding and welfare, let alone what registered pedigree breeders have to do with that, is utterly ridiculous. You "rest your case" based on an irrelevant misquote? Righto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 No new laws are going to be effective while there isn't the manpower to enforce them. Laws are easy to pass and for the stupidest of reasoning - but to actually follow through and put bodies out into the field to make sure those laws are being adhered to is a whole other ball game... Until the current laws are being policed effectively, what's the freaking point of any new ones being added? Only those actually following the rules are being penalised - everyone else just goes about their merry business pumping out puppies for the masses... *sigh* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 No new laws are going to be effective while there isn't the manpower to enforce them. Laws are easy to pass and for the stupidest of reasoning - but to actually follow through and put bodies out into the field to make sure those laws are being adhered to is a whole other ball game... Until the current laws are being policed effectively, what's the freaking point of any new ones being added? Only those actually following the rules are being penalised - everyone else just goes about their merry business pumping out puppies for the masses... *sigh* T. Exactly. Tasmania has really good cat laws (any cat not owned by a registered breeder must be desexed, all cats must be microchipped, illegal for unregistered people to breed cats, etc) but with one part-time position to enforce these laws, they've made absolutely no difference. Cat rescue groups are still overflowing with cats, people are still breeding them and selling online, same old story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I know little of this issue but does anyone kniw why they won't ban puppy sales from pet shops? It would seem that a puppy farmer could still pump out two litters per bitch a year and still sell 200 odd puppies a year. Just more work for the bitches I suppose. They aren't going to ban the sale of rescue dogs from approved rescue facilities in the lovely shop window, but only dogs bred for profit? You either ban one or all I say… Seriously!? VERY few rescues have ever placed a pet into a shop window and no rescue is doing it for even $1 of profit. The profit on the rescue animals has already been made by the person who bred and sold the animal in the first place. The shop makes a profit by selling the accessories they hope people will buy to go with the animal. So is it the dent in your profit you are against or just the limited number of dogs? From your comments you want less laws but more laws. It doesn't make sense. If I passed compliance in April. This shows I am doing something right No it doesn't. Puppy farms easily pass their relevant compliance regulations as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It is not the dog numbers that are an issue It is the people breeding them.. The people breeding them should be required to undergo a test, have their premises inspected and be audited at least once every 6 months (randomly) I would even go as far as having people income tested or making people insure their pets if they are going to breed from them We need tougher auditing laws for people that even breed from any number of dogs. Not just persons with over 10 fertile females. Re the above it may be the dog numbers in some cases. There is a big difference between having 3 or 4 bitches that live as family & having 50 dogs shoved in inadequate housing at the back of some paddock. People don't need a test to breed themselves & have children so why for a dog ? They don't get audited before having children either. Even cafes & restaurants that serve food to the public are not inspected & audited that often & they could potentially kill people if unhygienic. They also make more money than hobby breeders. Pet insurance only covers illness & accidents they will not cover any kind of involvement or issue in breeding & whelping. We are not a communist/dictatorship country so breeding a dog or a few should not be treated like a criminal offense. Ill treating, neglecting or abusing a dog is an offense that can be prosecuted & there are laws to enable this. There seems to be more fuss, input & wild theories & extreme ideas about dog breeding than there is about child abuse. Hopefully this ridiculous trend will die down & people can focus on the many more important issues, ban pet shop sales & leave it all alone. Have to keep telling myself there are people somewhere with brains that can get priorities & practicalities right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Have to keep telling myself there are people somewhere with brains that can get priorities & practicalities right. Problem is that none of this type of person tends to run for government... *sigh* T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I would strongly suggest people read the DEPI CODE before making unsubstantiated claims. BAN the selling of ALL pets in PET SHOPS EVERYONE that breeds ANIMALS no matter how many, should abide by the relevant code of practice in their State (if applicable) Have the government start a Royal Commission into Animal Cruelty Banning or limiting something is not going to solve the problem Look at the drugs epidemic… This is so highly policed, people still do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 c It is not the dog numbers that are an issue It is the people breeding them.. The people breeding them should be required to undergo a test, have their premises inspected and be audited at least once every 6 months (randomly) I would even go as far as having people income tested or making people insure their pets if they are going to breed from them We need tougher auditing laws for people that even breed from any number of dogs. Not just persons with over 10 fertile females. Re the above it may be the dog numbers in some cases. There is a big difference between having 3 or 4 bitches that live as family & having 50 dogs shoved in inadequate housing at the back of some paddock. People don't need a test to breed themselves & have children so why for a dog ? They don't get audited before having children either. Even cafes & restaurants that serve food to the public are not inspected & audited that often & they could potentially kill people if unhygienic. They also make more money than hobby breeders. Pet insurance only covers illness & accidents they will not cover any kind of involvement or issue in breeding & whelping. We are not a communist/dictatorship country so breeding a dog or a few should not be treated like a criminal offense. Ill treating, neglecting or abusing a dog is an offense that can be prosecuted & there are laws to enable this. There seems to be more fuss, input & wild theories & extreme ideas about dog breeding than there is about child abuse. Hopefully this ridiculous trend will die down & people can focus on the many more important issues, ban pet shop sales & leave it all alone. Have to keep telling myself there are people somewhere with brains that can get priorities & practicalities right. They aren't shoved in some paddock. If you are registered and you are compliant you would be following the very strict code of practice. I encourage you to read it and repost at a latter date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karentrimbo Posted October 9, 2014 Author Share Posted October 9, 2014 I rest my case, The guy that killed himself after cutting up and murdering his transexual girlfriend prostitute has started breeding dogs from his apartment to keep him occupied: “Febri did not feel at home in Brisbane, however, he started to breed dogs about a month ago and hoped that would keep him occupied,” Ms Sukarni said. The backyard breeders are the problem. The property without the auditing and the facilities. It was the poor transgender woman who was killed who was breeding dogs, not the the awful man who murdered her. The quote was from the girl's mother who still refers to her as a son. But even if it was the murderer who was breeding the dogs I hardly see how that is at all relevant to BYB and puppy farmers needing tougher regulation nor in anyway a sufficient argument to 'rest your case'. How can a prostitute that travels the world as a hooker, who just moved to Brisbane from Melbourne. Who was living in a high-rise apartment equal an ethical dog breeder? This is just one of hundreds of examples I could pull. Sex work is a legitimate occupation, your moral objections to it does not necessarily equate to somebody being incapable of caring for animals. I don't really think there's enough information on this poor woman's breeding practices for you to use her as an example and I think she's suffered enough without needing to be further vilified, perhaps use one of your other hundreds of other examples instead. Also I don't think high-rise apartments rule people out of being ethical breeders if they only have one male and female that are toy breeds. Also as for rescue pups and kittens in petshops... the pet shops don't really profit from them, they are merely used as a platform by rescues and shelters to find homes. Anyone wanting to purchase one would still need to undergo the same checks as if they were getting the dog directly from the shelter or rescue as they don't belong to the petshop. I don't think it's in anyway comparable to pet shop puppies and does not harbor the same negative elements that puppies born in horrible conditions, shipped all across the country and sold for ridiculous prices to anyone willing to buy them does. So you are saying it is acceptable to breed dogs in a high-rise with no backyard? Based on the editorial, they travel the world as sex workers? I wonder what happens to these dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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