huski Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 Hey everyone I am OS for another week and so I can't give first hand experience with this for another couple of weeks but I am really curious as to what you all think about this puppy pre school class. I can post more info on the class tomorrow when my family go for the next session. My mum and sister have just started taking our 3 1/2 month old pup Daisy to puppy pre school. This is a not at an obed club but the people who run it are experience dog trainers. My mum sent me an email saying she was really frustrated with the trainer taking the class (this is after the first lesson). The class runs for just over an hour and is $90 for the five weeks. The first class the trainer spent the hour talking about the training methods she uses etc. She made all the baby puppies sit for the entire hour and got annoyed if the owners couldn't control them and keep them sitting the entire time. Now is it just me or is this unreasonable? We are talking about puppies that are from 7 1/2 weeks plus. Isn't it unfair to expect owners to have full control of such young puppies and also to expect the puppies to be able to sit still for almost an hour? The trainer also explained that she doesn't believe in saying "no" or "uh uh" to the puppies, so this is frustrating as we have always used this technique and it has always worked for us. Is it wrong to use this verbal correction? Daisy our pup does respond to "no" or "uh uh" and so does my Sibe. Now we aren't in puppy preschool so much for the training side (Daisy can already do most of the basic stuff you learn in puppy school) but more for the socialisation aspect. However according to my mum and my sister the puppies didn't have any time to socialise as they had to sit down for almost the whole class. Also according my family the trainer was very patronising and quite rude if the puppies couldn't do what she wanted. Not only this but there was really no actual training of the dogs done - about five minutes was spent on this and the rest of the hour was spent with her talking. From memory the puppy school we took my Sibe to a few years ago was completely different to this. Does this sound right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scope Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 they sound like idiots... i'd tell your sis and mum to ask for a refund and find another puppy pre school to go to... asking puppies to sit for an hour is completely unreasonable... hell you'd be hard-pressed to get a lot of mature dogs to stay sitting that long... and what's wrong with verbal correction? what do they expect to be used instead? i think these "trainers" are the ones that need the training.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeak Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I could be wrong but they sound like "purely positive trainers" which frown on ANY form of correction, even verbal. Their theory seems to be to praise the correct behaviour and ignore the unwanted behaviour... and it will go away. When we adopted Stormy from the RSPCA, I had an idealistic view that I would train her with purely positive methods... well that lasted about one hour I think... during which time she ran through the house and jumped on the bed, kitchen table and dining room table It may work with some dogs, but some dogs I think need a firmer hand and well defined boundaries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 To Me - that sounds silly. The main aspect of PPS, IMO is to let the puppies socialise with each other as well as introduce them to as many different situations and environments as possible. I am sure she needed a lot of things to cover in the first class, but she shouldn't have expected the puppies to be sitting. It's also a lot for the new owners to take in and listen for a full hour while they are also trying to control their 8wk old little dynamite . PPS is also not about teaching obedience really..... that can come later... it's about teaching handler the basics of dog training and about socialising the dog. Thats what later classes are for..... obedience. As for saying 'no'..... that is ridiculous. How can anyone go through life without ever being told of when they have done wrong? It's silly. We've seen kids that have been raised like that.... and we all know how they can turn out . Sometimes it works, but I honestly believe that every now and then a dog has to be told that what it did was wrong. The level of intensity is obviously controlled by what they did wrong etc. Just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsdog2 Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If the trainer just wanted to "talk" during the first session it would have been a better idea to ask the owners to leave their pups at home. Although I agree PPS is all about socialising the puppies isn't it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Wow, I wouldn't go there again!!! For a start, asking those poor pups to sit through an hour of someone gasbagging is just teaching them to be bored when they come to training - the worst thing you can do! And never saying no - uh oh! A recipe for a naughty pup! Seems like the vote here is unanimous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Most puppy classes only go for 1/2 an hour - 45 mins. And even then, you usually get "play breaks" in between because just like small children, puppies get bored very quickly! I would suggest you find a new place. Good luck! Daisy is gorgeous BTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ons Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 at my puppy school at the vets we were shown a video for the first half hour. Our puppies were allowed to sit on the table in front of us being held, on our laps, being patted whatever that would keep them quiet and happy. We then went downstairs and the puppies could play. The whole three sessions were interactive of play time then sitting by owners but no puppy was made to sit still, they could stand, sit on laps, wander and make friends with the people sitting next to them (as Tilly constantly did) or whatever, just had to be near their owner and on their lead. Pups couldn't sit still for an hour! and as was posted you woudl be lucky to get a mature dog doing that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Sounds crapolla to me. Expecting a puppy to sit for an hour is unrealistic and just silly. I can understand that a bit of talking would have taken place on the first session to explain techniques etc but not as much as you said took place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'd be requesting money back - sounds very ordinary. FWIW the PPS I took my pup to was an hour long x 4 sessions. It was split up into socialisation with the other puppies/familiarisation with things like balls and toys and people on crutches etc etc (about 10 mins) then about 5 mins of training (1:1 with an instructor) teaching basics i.e sit drop come and a few fun tricks if puppies were more advanced, then 5 mins of toilet time. That was repeated three times throughout the night. At no stage did we have to have puppies sitting for any period of time (other than to get their pic taken for their "graduation" certificate ;) ). When the other puppies graduated then we had to hold them still for maybe 5 mins but that was laps or sits or whatever way you could keep them entertained Pretty hard to listen/pay attention for an hour when trying to keep an unruly pup under control :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Sounds to me as though some of the owners may have been ignoring the trainer and allowing their poppies to roam. Who knows??? Hopefully the future classes will suit everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) Don't know if it's the same trainer. But few years back, friends booked their Labrador pup into training. Husband, who's an army officer, insisted that he'd take the Lab. First night, the trainer gave an hour long talk about dog behaviour. Far from wandering, the Lab pup slumped across his dad's boots and went to sleep. Trouble was, he snored LOUDLY. The trainer would admonish dad to stop the noise. So he'd shake Lab awake...only for him to slouch against his leg...& snore and sputter loudly. This went on a few times...& dad got more and more embarrassed. When he went home...he told his wife that, from now on, she'd have to take the Lab to 'school night'. Edited January 22, 2007 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 When he went home...he told his wife that, from now on, she'd have to take the Lab to 'school night'. :D Maybe the posters mother? can take a tired puppy, so it behaves. Great story Mita, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weisnjac Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I have heard that most PPS's are like that in my area now. When I first had Pippa at PPS, the class was split into two groups, for big puppies and small puppies. The sessions went for 45 minutes over 3 weeks and about 80% of this time was spent letting the dogs interact with the other puppies and playing with different toys. We done a little training, like trying to get your puppy to focus on you for 1/2 a second. And we were given homework like making your puppy a toy from materials at home. I really enjoyed it. I was going to go back with my new puppy but when I was told what they were doing, I decided to save my $120 (yep $120 :D ) and socialise my puppy elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 $120!!!!!!! My first reaction was geee..........$120 is not much in the life of the dog, then remembered when puppy classes were free and the vets held them, in the hope of gaining new customers. $120.00!!!! Damm. Prices have gone way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fido666 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 If the trainer just wanted to "talk" during the first session it would have been a better idea to ask the owners to leave their pups at home. Although I agree PPS is all about socialising the puppies isn't it :D . This is exactly what my PPS trainer did, she was quite clear the 1st lesson was for handlers/family members only. She went through the basics of her particular training methods, how to use a clicker, etc. There was no direct socialisation for the first couple of lessons, this was done so no puppies felt stressed from a threatening situation too early in the course. Some other posters have commented on the use of the correction "No" or "Uhh Uhh". I can see the trainer's logic in this (flame suit on now) as she is probably trying to reinforce that you need to associate the word with the desired action. Think about what type of action your dog can perform to the command "No", none really. It's far better to say "leave it" or "back" or whatever you want the dog to do. I admit I say "No" and "Uhh Uhh" too, old habits die hard. Not having been present in the class I can't comment on how good a trainer this one was but give her a chance or ask her to explain why she uses these methods. Cheers, Corine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Makes the one I went too look like a bargain - great idea too! $70 got you 4 weeks PPS then membership at the club for the rest of the financial year. Amazing how many came back a month or two after PPS. Turns out you need to do a little more than PPS to train your dog :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaturallyWild Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 (edited) I would walk away and ask for a refund. There are two main reasons you get your puppy into a puppy socialisation class. First is that they get a good socialisation with other different breeds of dogs and can learn to read their different variations of signals (communication). The second and most important is that they can further cement bite inhibition which should have already been learnt (or partially so) whilst in the litter. They need to learn to play and bite with other dogs and learn that biting to hard is not on and will stop play. Any puppy class should involve lots of small play sessions with the other dogs that are interupted by good stuff from the owners, compliance for something asked means the puppies get to go back to play, whereby creating an early level of control in distracting situations. Also futher socialisation with humans by being passed around and handled by everyone else and a few novel items intruduced. Like someone else said their class was like, the puppies and owners should be going non stop for the hour - what a waste of money on training the puppy. If you have information about training techniques etc, send it out in the mail. Absolutely rediculous that the trainer expected puppies to "behave" for an hour, and she is getting frustrated because they are not doing whats asked, she has no concept of learning, particularly if she wants to come across as being a purely positive type trainer (which is not possible because at some stage they have to stop the dog getting what it wants - "evil punishment for an hour"). Edited January 22, 2007 by NaturallyWild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollie10 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I've only been to the first class, but our puppy preschool was really, really good. The pups had a chance to get to know each other before the class began. Our trainer interspaced talking with practical lessons, so it gave the pups a chance to learn, but also to have periods of settling and calm. I would not expect my pup to sit still for an hour while someone talked at me. I'd be finding a better puppy school Mollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Hell I cant even sit still and concentrate for an hour!! I would be finding a new puppy preschool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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