JulesP

Just don't leave the shute out in your garden with your dog unsupervised. Have heard about a dog suffocating that way. Not sure if it is true but still...

I like information. I like learning. I like knowledge. I don't care if people have different views from me, as I am secure enough in myself that I just find it interesting. There is no need for 'sides' to be taken in this discussion.

People at agility kept saying I should easily be able to send my dogs out to jumps etc. But they hate going away from me. They do very right turns over a jump but will not run in a straight line a way from me. I think this is because of their natural style of herding - heading/stopping rather than driving or casting. Not talking about the eye thing.

Probably the best thing I got out my herding clinic was a better understanding of my dog. I was a tad frustrated that neither border wanted to be 'sent' in agility and were very tentative with it in obedience. Both have great recalls and cling like nothing else to me. Understanding the different herding styles and were my dogs fitted in explained that they were just doing what comes naturally for a heading type dog. A driving type dog would be much easier to send out. Does that sound right?

Is there more demand for working dogs though then there is supply?? Would a farmer want to go and buy a working dog from a show breeder when they probably have their working dog contacts.

'you get the dog you need' I like this! When I first came to DOL it was all drive this and that. I didn't have drive so I went to one of K9 Force's clinics. Brock was one of the dogs that knew I was the alpha and was too polite to be taking the tug off me. I was a bit freaked out at first but it made me think about what I wanted. I don't want a mad border collie that bolts around spinning in circles barking! I want them to be very well behaved. I certainly don't think that it has hindered their obedience work. They might not be as flashy as some but they are pretty steady and rarely stuff up. Brock's slowness in agility has helped me to learn the handling side of it. He gives me time to get into position. And his speed is increasing as he gets more confident. I am not saying that you shouldn't try to increase drive but think you should also look at the dog as an individual and not be upset if they aren't acting the same. Part of the fun of dog training is trying lots of different things and working out what works for your dog.

Sounds like maybe I should just do the instinct test first then? I am going to a mock trial soon, so can see what happens. Kelpie-i Poppy gets in a trance looking at the sheep and I get in a trance looking at her! The look on her face is amazing. When we were waiting for out turn outside of the pen she was just quivering all over!

My Birman, Bailey, is a mad keen retriever! Much more so then either border

Poppy is a strong 'heading - stopping' dog so it is keeping her moving that is the challenge. She goes into a trance!

Glad you wrote this bit as I wanted to say it but hate writing about drive in case you are lurking and I say it wrong .

Roughly how much training would you need to do to prepare for your HT title? Bit of a hard to answer question I know! Poppy was changing the sheepies direction in her first herding clinic if that helps. Do people go to a trial and do the instinct & HT in one day? Or should you be doing the instinct test and then doing the HT stuff at a following comp. Bit hard to practice for herding!! I have room for sheep but don't think my fencing is good enough. Sheep would be handy for grass chomping duties. I can see the dogs spending the entire day and night glaring at the poor sheepies though. Guess I am asking how hard it is to get your HT with a dog that shows good natural ability.

What is the actual demand for a 'working' dog?? I would rather see show breeders producing dogs that make nice pets as that is were the majority go to.

No surprising the Proplan select didn't sell - Petstock didn't know the price and wouldn't sell it to people!!!!

In her book SG mentions not using a clicker because it makes the dog look at you and she wants the dog looking ahead or at an obstacle.

If you find a butcher that sells turkey you could ask them to mince it for you, they are usually happy to chop or mince stuff up.

Glad you had fun!

Panic over, I can send her to her toy. I thought I had to send her over the jump to nothing. (this is to pass an assessment) Thanks everyone

I love how their little eyes bug out at the size of the turkey wings!

Now Midol you wrote this about dogs - "For me the dog is working if it is using their natural instinctive abilities to perform a task which the dog was specifically bred for. There isn't a single breed that I know of that has instincts specifically tuned for obedience trials and bred for obedience trials." The Thoroughbred race horse has been bred to race. It was developed to race. It is not a farm horse and has never been a farm horse. The race horse is certainly working. Also no one on this thread has said that their obedience dogs are working in the true sense.

Am doing it with the toy but it is not translating to going without the toy.

More sending out in front, over an obstacle. Damn clingy dogs!

My BC are so serious that they consider coming with me to the washing line 'work'!!

Now Pax Midol has made it quite clear that it is not from the dog's viewpoint!!!!

Just interested in how others teach sending over an obstacle for agility. Ta

I took a slower approach to crate training then this. It took a while before I actually shut my pup in her crate. The first stage was feeding her near the door of the crate, then feeding in the crate with the door open, then closing whilst she was eating, then leaving a bit longer etc If she is still crying when you go and let her out then she is thinking that crying gets her out!! Don't let her out unless she is quiet. Get ear plugs! I try and have at least a weeks hols when I get a new puppy.