JulesP

It is a strange thing about dog instructors and horse ones that they do this rude thing. I don't care if someone is a volunteer, there is not reason to be rude. They only tend to do it once to me as I usually have something to say back!

I'll have a go to answer Cosmolo. What is sensitivity in a dog? Does it mean that: they have weak nerves? - Don't think that it is necessarily the same thing. Brock is happy to keep going in any condition and once working stays focussed on me. Think a dog with 'weak nerves' would chuck the towel in during yucky weather etc. they didn't receive good socialisation to training during their critical period? - IMHO, if it a genetic/natural instinct then socialisation can only minimise it not totally change it. Expose to bad things has certainly had a negative impact on Brock so very careful socialisation is needed. I have found that doing stacks of aggressive proofing stuff doesn't make them better but gets them more freaked out. I avoid those classes were they do heaps of weird stuff. Some might call that weak nerves? someone at some point has sensitised them to training by accident? (it would therefore not necesarily be the natural temperament of the dog) - Think the dog would need to be sensitive in the first place. could definately make them worse though. they don't have strong drives so they are too easy to 'knock out' of drive and appear sensitive? - Brock has a pretty strong pack drive, pretty much stays in it regardless. People expect the strong prey drive because of his breed but that is pretty low. So if you didn't realise this and tried to use a toy or something then you would definately think he was low in drive. I get good recalls! A few posters talk about appeasement behaviour occurring in their 'sensitive' dogs. Is this the dog themselves or is this what they have learned will work to not get them into trouble? Are dogs naturally sensitive? Or do we teach them that certain behaviours (that we think are sensitive) work to get what they want? Sensitivity to a correction varies from dog to dog but can also be taught to any dog. The dog who is strctly hands off for training- is that sensitive or a lack of manual handling/ socialisation to handling and touch? - With both my last 2 borders the appeasement behaviour was defiantely natural as neither really do naughty things so I have never really told them off. If they do something I don't like then cowering doesn't get them anywhere anyhow! They are both total goody twoshoes though. But I guess I do enforce the pack rules of them showing polite behaviour (not knocking me over, rushing past, polite eating, staying on beds etc). The main trouble I am having is in class when someone else tells their dog off. Poor Brock freaks out. This happened during the stand for exam last week. The person next to me told their dog off, Brock just drooped and flopped to the ground. Once he has decided he is in trouble it takes a bit to convince him otherwise. Can also work the other way, if someone is reinforcing their dog during stays, I don't need to reinforce Brock!

Lol, I had a GSD that used to start going nuts as I pulled into the driveway. I would just open the gate and he would bolt around, hop in to the trailer and straight in the bath. The owners only used a groomer because the doggie loved it so much. ;)

When are you going to visit us!!

I think he might be 'shy'! Was sitting in the kitchen with him tonight not having much success when the lights went out! Suddenly there was lots of chomping of the dumbell! I couldn't see of course, could just hear him! Dunno what he was doing but he got rewarded!

Bugger the videoing I reckon we all need to have another get together soon!

Brock is the second border I have owned that is 'sensitive'. It certainly teaches you to control your temper. Even if I am in class and get shitty with the instructor then he turns to water. He was outside playing this morning and smacked his pot into the window, I looked up quickly and he was all squirmy and apologetic and was actually licking the glass. I have never told him off for knocking the window but just me looking up quickly and sharply had him grovelling. He is also very submissive to all other dogs.

Brock is sensitive. He is sensitive about everything though, not just training. He is in general a big sook. If he thinks he has got something wrong he does fall to pieces. For instance the other day he missed a stand, he knew he had missed it and although he got no correction (i walked forward and asked again) he was upset. His tail was down, his ears drooped, he was actually crouching. A 'correction' as in a jerk of the chain would have had him on the ground sobbing. I usually just talk to him and wait until he looks ok with the world or do something else. He is not trying it on or being naughty. I have a fair bit of trouble in class if someone else loudly tells their dog off.

Yes that is pretty much the response I get. He has a half hearted go at playing to make me happy. He will run (well walk) out to a target to get food, He isn't thrilled about this. He doesn't like going away from me. He didn't even want to leave me to chase the sheepies. The thing that produces the border collie nuttiness is probably chasing the torch! i.e. at night, turning the torch on and he goes crazy chasing it around the garden! As you know Leo he is pretty laid back! Brock doing what he does best:

His ears go down, he tries to wriggle away. A positive trainer also noticed his dislike of being told to hold it. To encourage the play I jump around like a lunatic, teasing him with the object, talking in a very excited voice and then I throw it. He doesn't get to play with the things unless I am around.

The prancy style of heeling can look a bit messier sometimes than the ploddy type of heeling! I think Oscar's turns look more noticeable because the rest of the time he is glued to your side.

He doesn't do it when I am around. I just find the kindling all over the garden

No Leopuppy he will not retrieve anything. The only game he really loves is chasing the torch! He also likes playing with a big plastic pot, but he mainly bats that around with his paws. He can't object to having stuff in his mouth too much though as he does like stealing my fire kindling! With the Shirley method I got to putting the dumbell on the ground. He will nose it and lick it but will not move it. I have been holding it and he will take it in his mouth but will not hold it. He will move to take it in his mouth too. If I put a finger under his chin he looks very upset. I have tried to get him to hold over objects with no success. As a seperate exercise I have been trying to encourage him to chase objects, half the time he doesn't even run after them let alone bring them back.

Yes. Have been using the Shirley Retrieve.

Has anyone had a dog that they haven't been able to teach to do a formal retrieve?? Brock will still not hold the dumbell in his mouth (or take any object from me). And I am not getting anywhere with trying to get him excited about play retrieve. I have one toy that he will chase after and pick up, but he will only do it maybe twice before he just looks at me. Throwing 2 toys achieved nothing. I am getting rather depressed about it as I need to do a retrieve to pass the current class I am in. And I need to pass this class to get into the trial class!

Looking good DD. I was going to say the about turns too. He was good on the stationary ones so maybe you are taking too big a step in the moving ones, it is hard to see without seeing you from the side.

Yes I think there is a pack order. None of my doggies have ever had fights and it is a very gentle pack order but it is there. And it includes the cats!!! Me first (of course), then old black cat, then old border girl, younger border, younger cat. Younger border doesn't challenge the rank at all, younger cat has a go!

To learn I prefer private lessons. I go to group lessons purely for practise in a busy environment and for socialisation. But in saying that I haven't had a group lesson with a top instructor.

Thanks Dogdude!

I had a mobile grooming business for 12 months. I set it up from scratch. If I had to do it again then I would probably go for a salon or for a franchise. How are you at towing things?? I found it quite stressful going to a new place and wondering what the conditions were going to be like, but I live in a more country/hilly area. It wouldn't be such a problem in the suburbs. I remember times were I had to take the trialler off and physically turn it around because I got stuck! I thought that I would be mainly washing dogs but found I was clipping off white fluffy cross-breds all day long! Mainly unsocialised, feral, white fluffies! I did find it physically hard. Had a bit of trouble with my hands because of all the clipping. You think it will be be great because you don't have a boss but in reality your customers are your 'boss'. I found it hard to be polite to idiots that had their dogs in shocking conditions. You see some horrible things. Maybe a salon would get a better range of customers. People also phone at all times of the day and night! I would do it again. But in a salon with staff!

You really need to fix your fences so that your dog can't get out. Living on acreage is no excuse for not having secure dog fencing. It was the first thing I did when I moved onto a couple of acres. I wanted to know my dogs were safe and not bothering other people. When I got the pup I had to go around and fix under gates etc.

I try and take myself out of the picture when introducing animals. I think you can sometimes get a worse reaction when the dog is on lead or if you are there. Introducing through a screen or something seems to work well. I was really freaked out about my pup and kitten for a while as pup likes to drag kitten around. Then I worked out it is the cat that starts it! Brock has even made friends with my rather nasty old cat! He gives her a lovely licking every morning!!!

My parents had to put a dog down once. They had done the dog school thing since doggie was a pup. The vet had tried drugs. Doggie was always very nervy, didn't like going on walks even. He bit everyone in the family. he bit my dad really badly one day for no good reason. I really think that there was something wrong with that dog and that they did everything they could do if it was a behavioural problem to fix it. So I think that when a 'behavioural' problem is caused by either a genetic or physically problem then that needs to be recognized. And if the resulting behaviour is aggression then sometimes a hard decision has to be made.

Pet Stock shops sell Eagle Pack. Really any of the premium foods is going to be an improvement. I use Purina Pro Plan a lot.

It doesn't seem to take much food to get a border collie porky, which would suggest to me that they don't need a hell of a lot of food to stay in good condition. Sooo how much are you actually feeding your dog? Does he have a glossy coat and lots of energy? Perhaps he is eating what he needs to and isn't a guts! I would maybe look at improving the quality of the food, i.e. a better quality dry food like Eagle Pack. Nature's Gift tinned food is also good for putting weight on.