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Ashanali

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Everything posted by Ashanali

  1. And to me, although making some of your income is a criteria for a being a pro, making a "hefty amount, if not all" isn't in the top ten. I consider myself a professional. Others may not consider me one - I don't enter competitions, I don't submit to AIPP for awards etc, I don't make 100% of my income from shooting. (Although, I have a friend who is most definitely a pro and I don't think he's been paid for a shoot in 100 years - all his work is pro bono. Nice to be able to live that way, but not on the cards for 99.9% of us, I'd guess! And OT, too) Exactly kja - I dont giveaway my copyright/ownership and therefore dont enter competitions, Ummm... the AIPP have been instrumental in getting the rules of many competitions changed so that the copyright of entries remains with the photographer. Giving away copyright to images is a HUGE no-no for anyone and something that professionals as an industry are working hard to have recognised. If you find competitions that state that by entering the business running the competition retains copyright, please let me know so I can alert the person who deals with this issue. btw - there are something like 2500 photographers who are members of the AIPP, last year 698 entered the awards. Being a professional doesn't mean you HAVE to enter awards. I don't know where people are getting that idea from.
  2. I know I'm not Rocco but I thought I'd respond to this It depends on the help you give. I have been asked to speak to a group of photographers at a large event coming up in February - some people give workshops and show the way they shoot but they don't talk business, some people talk business but don't talk about the way they shoot. I'll be one of those. I have been asked to talk on a specific subject and I'll give enough information that people will learn something useful and integral but they won't be able to go out and replicate what I do exactly (even though I will be up the front of the room giving a live demo.) There are many workshops and professional development seminars all around the country happening all the time. Business and practical photography stuff. You can't tell me that these photographers and business people are being put out of business by the people that attend their workshops. More to the point, starting this Sunday and going through to Wednesday is a huge photography conference on the sunshine coast with photographers from all different areas coming together to discuss both business and practical. http://www. aipptheevent.com.au/ (take out the space) I think every single person on the speakers list would scoff at the thought that someone who attends their session is in any way a threat to their business. You can educate and help people without having your business suffer in the process. as an aside, this thread became very useful today. There was an informal meeting this morning that was open to AIPP members to talk about the direction the industry is heading and I was able to quote a couple of the non-photographers who posted in this thread to give a view on how the 'outside' world view photographers. It became a point of discussion and education of the general public is back on the agenda for the next AGM. So thanks to the DOLers who have put their thoughts into this thread and haven't gotten carried away with hysterics in the process .
  3. I think people are going around in circles and getting the wrong end of the stick. What I took from the OP is some very timely and well thought advice that people should evaluate where they are at and work out what they are worth. Like all industries, there are people who are going to be at many and varied levels of skill and working professionalism. This is normal and to be expected, however the concern within the photographic industry (and I'm sure it's happening in a few other industries also) is the people who are doing good quality work and charging a pittance thinking that they can maintain that pace and not burn out. All I have seen in this thread is some advice to people that says, "stop and evaluate" - then examples of what to consider when evaluating where to place yourself in the market. The people who have come in here and thrown up their hands are consumers who all seem to be upset that photographers actually try to make money out of their careers?? (not sure if this is the case, but it's what it looks like.) Again, I personally don't worry about the people who come and go on the scene. I know that they will either burn out fast or they will realise that the way they work is only sustainable for a short time. However just as Linda said, there are people here who are trying to HELP those who are trying to give photography a go and having people come in and say, "you don't have to change what you're doing" doesn't help them - in fact, I can tell you from experience that you're helping their business to fail. And one more time just for fun - It is perfectly fine for people to use cheap photographers, it's perfectly fine for people to be cheap photographers; there is always a market there!
  4. That was the one I was looking for!!! Thanks for posting that
  5. Mon, growing up in hairdressing salons and working closely with Australia's largest massage therapy clinic (they are across the road from our studio and we work with them often), I'll have to disagree on those two fronts. Hairdressing requires a four year apprenticeship, and massage therapy doesn't require an official qualification BUT on all accounts from the very many therapists I deal with and talk to, it is difficult for people to work in that industry without it. Already there is an investment in both those careers that people have to put in before they even start. Photography doesn't require any sort of official qualification, people can pick up a camera cheap with a kit lens, whack up a website and call themselves professional. It's what they do after that that makes all the difference. As I said, there will always be a market for cheaper photographers and I don't mind that they are fly by night businesses because the more of them that go bankrupt and the more people complain about them, the better our business looks in comparison. However the people that damage the market (and it IS happening in this industry) are the talented people who aren't charging appropriately for their TALENT. BTW We aren't just a service industry because we also supply products and the quality of our products needs to stand the test of time probably more than any other industry. Afterall, what's the first thing you grab in a fire (after living and breathing members of your house are accounted for)? What's the one thing that's handed down to your kids? Can't hand down a massage, a consultation, dog training or a hairstyle... but you can sure as hell pass on precious memories to your family members. As it is, the AIPP are working for accreditation for photographers along the lines of CPA's. The new accreditation scheme is being teamed with more mainstream promotion of the industry to the general public. It's going to be slow going but hopefully with more awareness there will be more people in the industry doing the right thing and less cowboys.
  6. and that's the unfortunate mentality nowadays because if you won't do it, you can be guaranteed there is someone who will. I read a really interesting blog post from a highly regarded photographer about this subject. Will need to try and find it.
  7. my post was a reply to the original post Specifically this bit And this In the industry where Ive got my money invested there are tip top products made in Germany that cost a lot of money. There also are asian knock offs that cost a third, even look the same. Should I tell the shop up the road taht they cant sell the asian knock off because Im selling the good German stuff? I ahve no right to do that. I can provide better service, I can lower my prices or I can pack my bags and go elswhere. This is how competition works in ANY industry. There were some regulated ones but most go deregulated resulting in end user benefiting. Telecommunication is one prime example. When I came to Australia in 1989 I paid $2.10 per minute for a phone call to Poland. Now I might be paying $0.21 if that. Competition, thats all. I guarantee you Telstra doesnt like it, just like I dont like the shop down the road selling cheap filters. Very true Mon, yet Rocco still has a vaild point. It really does cheapen the industry when there are people around with good quality work charging bargain basement prices. Let the people with poor quality work charge low, let those with better quality of work charge more. I get the feeling that is where Rocco was heading with this post; not saying that everyone should be putting up their prices and be exclusive (because frankly, there are some people in the industry who shouldn't even be charging.)
  8. If you notice my posts, I haven't said that being cheap is wrong, I have said that there are ways to work out what you're worth and how to work it out. There will always be a call for cheaper services and that's fine, however the people who are cheaper are generally cheaper because they are inexperienced (everyone starts somewhere), or cutting necessary corners in their business (not good) or because they are high volume (which unless you're part of a larger force such as 'Pixifoto' or 'Starshots', this is a killer). Generally the people who start out cheap and stick with a plan to remain cheap, WILL lose money and WILL go out of business. Been there, done that. I have learnt a huge amount from the experience and it's why I'm so keen to share.
  9. The previous comments didn't say it looked bad, they said it wasn't search engine friendly or user friendly due to it being a flash site, the fonts used and being hosted by a free host. The op asked for feedback and got valuable feedback from people who deal with this stuff on a daily basis.
  10. You don't need the overlap with the lenses. The 24-70 and the 70-200 are a perfect workhorse team and the 24-70 has a little more versatility. I was tossing up the 100mm macro and the 135mm 2.0 recently and after asking for input, I decided to go for the 135mm 2.0. Best decision ever. It doesn't have macro BUT it is so so so so sharp. I can't begin to describe how amazing this lens is. I now prefer it over the 50mm 1.4. (that being said, I still want to get a macro something and a 24mm prime.)
  11. It's incredible. The first high school I went to I was talking to about 40 year 11 and 12 students who were interested in being photographers. The first thing I said was, "Who in this room thinks that photography is glamorous and all about photos?" About 90% of the class put their hands up. I then said that out of a working week, probably 1-2 days would be shooting and the rest of the time was bookwork, advertising, SEO, customer liasing, editing, proofing, designing and so on and so on (I have it in a powerpoint presentation). After going through the routine of a working photographer, I then pointed out that for every successful studio that makes it past 5 years, there are probably around 200 photographers that fail because of poor business practices - nothing to do with photographic skill. At the end of the talk (I do go over all the positive stuff also), I asked the same question as at the start, "so now, who in this room thinks photography is glamorous and all about photos?" Not a single hand went up. Then I asked, "so who still thinks being a photographer is for them?" - there were about 4 or 5 people. To me, what happened during that talk is what happens in the industry. People get swept up by a love of photography not realising how hard the work actually is, then they either sink or swim - the swimmers are a very small number, usually the people who have a clear idea before they start of what they are getting into and just how hard they need to work OR they are adaptable and very quickly realise they need to catch up or lose the race. Chances are those 4 or 5 students would be okay if they decide to head into the industry because they have some sort of idea of what they are getting themselves in to and they realise that it isn't just about snapping a few photos.
  12. the 24-70mm lens, although it isn't a macro, it does a fairly decent job. Also you now have the 5D markII so you can crop like a mad woman.
  13. What this poster said. I do a LOT of SEO work. Your website is not SEO or user friendly at all (sort of important in this day and age).
  14. I can't find it. Essentially, nobody can tell people what to charge (the ACCC doesn't like that ) However there are ways to figure out what you're worth. If you're in business OR you're building a business, you need to RUN YOUR BUSINESS. What I mean by this is, even if you're portfolio building, you still need to charge a decent amount or else you will struggle. So let's look at it this way (this is the very short version) What should you charge for an 8x10 inch print? Write down the number. Now you are going to work out how much that 8x10 inch print costs you to produce. Cost of actual print Fuel to get to and from the shoot Fuel to get to and from the lab OR postage Phone calls Insurance (if you have a business, you NEED insurance - this is not something you should avoid as consequences for not having it can be very serious.) Website hosting Internet hosting electricity Camera gear Computer Programs/upgrades bookkeeping accounting advertising savings superannuation Tax PAY FOR YOUR TIME AND SKILL Now for some of these, there will be a big ZERO - it depends on what stage of business you are at. However if you're intending on working as a professional, these are all things you need to consider when forming your pricing. You also need to work backwards. Think to yourself, "how much income do I want to make per year from photography?" Let's say $100,000 after costs have been taken out. Most people think to themselves, "That's $2000 a week. Easy peasy" Incorrect. To earn $2000 a week, you need to bring in approximately $4000 a week (and that's conservative) So how do you generate these $4000 worth of sales? How many 8x10 images do you need to sell to make this amount? Look at it another way, how often do you see; "$200 for your photos on a disc" - sounds awesome right? Wrong. You still have to do the legwork and the editing and sure, putting the images on a disc is easy enough, but you still need to shoot 15-20 sessions a week to make $100,000 a year. How do you get the time to have a life if you're shooting 15-20 sessions a week and editing and meeting clients and so on. As I said, there is no right or wrong, but there are soooooooooooooo many factors to consider when thinking about your pricing. Some of them are obvious, and some of them are not so obvious but they are all VERY REAL costs you need to consider. You also need to remember that you have to have a work/life balance. People go crazy working 16 hour days and it's easy enough to back yourself in to that corner. And I'm not saying, "don't shoot for free". I still do free shoots ocassionally when I want something FOR ME (I did three shoots last week that were personal work). However there is shooting for free and there is being a sucker that is getting walked over. If you're portfolio building the best thing to do is work out what you want your pricelist to be, put those prices out into the big wide world THEN put on there, "50% discount for all orders finalised before June 2011" or something like that. That way people know ahead of time that YOU value your work and they will treat you so much differently and more respectfully because of it. This is something I'm passionate about. I'll be heading out to schools soon to talk about this very subject (to students thinking about photography as a career). If people want to find out more or have any questions, feel free to email me.
  15. I have a thing that I posted to a flickr group about this a while back... will see if I can find it. It's very relevant.
  16. I don't want to hijack your thread with a discussion on pricing, however to all the dog photographers here on DOL, I extend an invite to join the facebook group 'Australian Dog Show Photographers'. Pricing is a MAJOR issue within the entire photographic industry right now, for newcomers and old hands alike. There is no right or wrong however there are ways to work out what you are really worth... and at $7 an image, you're practically paying people to take your work. (seriously, you're losing money - you may not see it but you are.) Please join the group. There are a few discussions happening over there that would be of interest.
  17. I have learnt so much about ferrets in this thread. Makes me want one
  18. That is a GROSS generalisation. How many greyhound breeders/trainers do you know? I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations".....and I do know quite a fair few greyhound breeders/trainers hence my comments about this "sport." How many do you know? and are you in a position of assuring everyone that I am indeed blowing things out of all proportions??? There is always the exception to the rule and I am the first to admit that there may be a few individuals that are doing the right thing but they are the exception and not the rule. Well this thread has been a crack up. I came in here to see if anyone was heading out with Nehkbet and instead get a good laugh. First, it was the friend with the duck. I think the friend got lucky when the friendship was ended. Then THIS lovely statement above about greyhound racing. Growing up, my dad often went hunting (still does) and I even went out a couple of times... and dad would hunt and bring back food for the racing greyhounds (shock horror!) We had about 40 dogs on the property, most of them racing greys but some of them were the show team (cocker spaniels and english setters). We also had lots of cats to keep the numbers of rodents and snakes down.I guess this is the point that I say that my obviously 'rough around the edges' mother (and father) were both involved in the totally uncouth and crass world of ladies hairdressing. Yes, my platinum blonde and manicured mother owned racing greyhounds and was known to cut up roo and rabbit carcasses to feed her dogs. How terrible! and the racing greys... what a horrible life they led!!! Topsy lived until she was 19 when she was humanely PTS because she couldn't stand up anymore and probably weighed about 15kg of skin and bone. My mother didn't have the heart to end her life earlier and probably let her go way too long. Then there are the others that were our house dogs and played with kittens. Oh, and just for fun, there's a photo attached of me with our ex-racing grey Tiger. He became a show dog when his racing career finished then he went to become another family's much loved pet. Yes, all racing greyhound people are wicked and kill their failed racing dogs and all women involved in hunting are uncouth and rough around the edges and best to be avoided. How very dare they!?! ETA: and there are more trainers/owners that are like this that I know of then the sort that you know. Maybe I just know the nice people. Yep yep yep....I have heard all of the conglomerate excuses that people conjure up in order to hide their dirty ways. So Topsy lives to 19 years of age? you know only too well that that is the exception and not the rule! As you've said.....40 dogs on the property and most of them racing greyhounds.....Why such a large number of racing greyhounds? were they all beloved pets? please spare me the..... As for you saying that my friend got lucky in my ending the friendship.....well, doesn't say much about the likes of you given that you are condoning the act of cutting a duck's neck with a pair of scissors. I wish I had the photos of us as kids rolling around the paddock with a pack of greyhounds... or the photos of us in the car on the way to dog races with greyhounds sitting over the top of us. With one of our last greys (Benji) we used to sing a song to him everytime before he raced... "Dogs, Dogs, Dogs, Dogs all shapes and sizes, some do tricks like bringing back sticks, and some win the dog race prizes." We were convinced it was lucky. Then there was the time that I fell asleep in the car with four dogs around me and when my parents got home they didn't have the heart to wake us all up so the parked the car under the garage and let me sleep with the greyhounds for the night and brought me down a blanket. I woke up with greyhound cuddles. It was awesome. Considering that we lived on 7 acres and there were 12 family members living on the property who all got involved, the dogs had lots of attention. I personally would spend every waking minute with the dogs (yes, they were in kennels but we let them out to play and romp and have fun and run around the paddock and be NORMAL). I was a dog mad kid and the dogs were well loved - whether greyhound or show dog it didn't matter. And you're right, there were 40 on the property but not all of them were racers. Lots of them were retired and living out their lives being loved and safe (those that we didn't rehome). Topsy's age. Sure is an exception. I don't know many dogs of any breed that live that long! I find your post insulting saying that my parents were covering up their "dirty" ways. Unless you've actually lived it, your not free to comment on the life that we or my dogs or my parents led because you would be wrong. As for your friend. Cutting a head off is one thing, doing it with scissors is another. Amazing how you just suddenly add that integral fact to your posts As for the gun thing. Guns and children are bad when children don't learn respect. We were always taught respect for firearms and NEVER to play with guns. They aren't toys. How many country kids do you hear of having issues with shooting each other and carrying on like idiots? Not many... and I can tell you right now that most kids on properties use firearms or at least have been taught respect for them. Seriously, you're just trolling in this thread. Why on earth you'd come in here and make such seemingly narrow minded comments is beyond me unless you think it's entertaining. And to insult people's parents is just way below the belt. I think THAT is uncouth, crass and rough around the edges and shows absolutley nothing ladylike about yourself at all.
  19. That is a GROSS generalisation. How many greyhound breeders/trainers do you know? I am not in the feeble habit of making "gross generalisations".....and I do know quite a fair few greyhound breeders/trainers hence my comments about this "sport." How many do you know? and are you in a position of assuring everyone that I am indeed blowing things out of all proportions??? There is always the exception to the rule and I am the first to admit that there may be a few individuals that are doing the right thing but they are the exception and not the rule. Well this thread has been a crack up. I came in here to see if anyone was heading out with Nehkbet and instead get a good laugh. First, it was the friend with the duck. I think the friend got lucky when the friendship was ended. Then THIS lovely statement above about greyhound racing. Growing up, my dad often went hunting (still does) and I even went out a couple of times... and dad would hunt and bring back food for the racing greyhounds (shock horror!) We had about 40 dogs on the property, most of them racing greys but some of them were the show team (cocker spaniels and english setters). We also had lots of cats to keep the numbers of rodents and snakes down. I guess this is the point that I say that my obviously 'rough around the edges' mother (and father) were both involved in the totally uncouth and crass world of ladies hairdressing. Yes, my platinum blonde and manicured mother owned racing greyhounds and was known to cut up roo and rabbit carcasses to feed her dogs. How terrible! and the racing greys... what a horrible life they led!!! Topsy lived until she was 19 when she was humanely PTS because she couldn't stand up anymore and probably weighed about 15kg of skin and bone. My mother didn't have the heart to end her life earlier and probably let her go way too long. Then there are the others that were our house dogs and played with kittens. Oh, and just for fun, there's a photo attached of me with our ex-racing grey Tiger. He became a show dog when his racing career finished then he went to become another family's much loved pet. Yes, all racing greyhound people are wicked and kill their failed racing dogs and all women involved in hunting are uncouth and rough around the edges and best to be avoided. How very dare they!?! ETA: and there are more trainers/owners that are like this that I know of then the sort that you know. Maybe I just know the nice people.
  20. Me too, a little appropriate for many dog people - dogs!!!!LOL figjam isn't original though. It's been around for years... in fact it was a high school friend's password to log in to our work computers back in 1994.
  21. because there are many that don't. Many people do the old "turn away and pretend I haven't seen what is happening" trick. That is when I smile, present them with a bag and say " you obviously didn't see him doing his business, here's a bag". I have done that too also pointed out that if they don't pick it then we will get banned from the area but still it is the assumption that all do not, they make comments b4 u even get a chance to reach for a bag , sarcastic remarks have been heard in return to same And I had this happen to me at my last beach visit. I was walking over to where Sunni had toileted and I clipped her dog lead on and the person near me obviously thought I was about to run away and offered me a bag... at the same time I pulled a bag from my pocket. I must have looked dodgy to them
  22. So sad that Breilla Blue Uranus didn't also blow your mind.
  23. I use the 70-200 2.8 IS for dog shows.
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