SkySoaringMagpie

If I try and call my dog off a hare in the back paddock and he doesn't respond, it's 3,000 years of breeding to hunt independently kicking in. IOW, the answer to your question is no, it's not personal. He does not give a shit about controlling me in that moment, he is only focused on the hare darting through the grass. That is more than fine with me. I don't try to control things I don't wish to control and I certainly don't attempt to fight 3,000 years worth of desert Bedouin breeding. If I wanted perfect control and a dog that didn't hunt independently, I would not have selected a Saluki. I'd have a Cocker or something similar. If I have a brain tho', I will have dog wire or chain wire fenced the paddock in question so that my Saluki's ability to control his environment is limited to what I am happy with.

This is where I turn into a martial arts hippy. A dog does not have an influence of control over me. If one of my dogs doesn't do what I ask I'll assess the situation to work out what went wrong, but I would only be subject to an influence of control if I lacked self control. It is still up to me how I respond.

Sorry poodlefan, I missed the bolded bit on the first go around. I blame lack of sleep. Will leave my rambling up anyway because it may be useful to someone. Love the Suzanne Clothier quote too, it's my furniture philosophy

Because it is very common for people to screw up their first time grooming attempts, far more common I'd argue than dominance issues are. They leave it too long to handle the puppy, they don't get it used to the tools before using them, they don't ask anyone to show them the proper technique, and when they finally get around to it they go way too fast. The first time the dog even sees the brush or the clipper or whatever it is 8 months old and it completely freaks out. You don't have to cut the quick to get this result. Then the owner freaks out because they didn't think it would be so hard and if they are responsible they ring a groomer (who will quietly on the phone at the prospect of dealing with another completely green dog) or if they are irresponsible they just leave the dog to turn into a matted clicky-clawed mess. Edited to make the eyerolly work

OK, say the last time an owner attempted to clip nails they'd left it so long the quick was close to the tip and they cut through it? Then the dog ran into the dining room and bled all over the cream coloured carpet and the owner flipped out? Bad experience for the dog and owner which the dog will try and avoid next time. Attempting to escape something the dog is stressed about is not seeking or asserting dominance as far as I can see? It's just a flight response. Plenty of people and animals "disobey" to escape, not to assert authority. I do know what "don't wanna, don't hafta" looks like as opposed to genuine fear. When ours hit 7 or 8 months and do the inevitable adolescent try-on we keep them on the grooming table until they calm down and what we intended to do is finished. It can be aggravating, my new bitch levitated off the table and smacked me square under the jaw a month ago - my fault, I should have picked it before it happened. I just kept her there until she calmed down and we had finished (blow drying ears, terrible torture) then rewarded her for being calm, complimented her on her pretty ears, and allowed her down. And then went into another room and swore, because I was really cranky but had to suck it up and to put on my "calm, persistent, patient, boss" persona while it was all going on. I dunno, I suspect there probably is not much disagreement in this thread in practical terms, but the language is a trigger for values issues. In my experience, "Dominant" is a short-cut to people's brains turning off, ie, "if I am boss, my problems end" - a view which often accompanies a real lack of empathy. Or worse, OMIGOD, the world thinks my dog is dominant and I am a weenie, I Must Show Them Different By Putting The Smack Down. Looking at how some people deal with public noncompliance from their dogs bothers the hell out of me and I include some things I've done in the past in that. If egos are to be tweaked in the service of dog training, I will always try and get people to show me "smart" not "dominant". For anyone who is reading who is totally stuck on how to conquer the nail clipping thing, there is a really good clipping nails program in one of the recent Whole Dog Journals. The principles apply to other grooming roadblocks as well.

OK, perhaps I am missing something but I would still argue this is a skill based issue for the majority of people. People are usually not taught the basics of grooming training, and wisely don't wish to force the issue when they lack competence. Give people the skills, and a lot of them get over it. For us, getting on top of grooming Faxon (our Afghan Hound) was about being shown what to do. Before we got some good mentoring he resisted like crazy, and was clipped off twice before we got on top of it. The truth is that we were hopelessly incompetent and correct tools and technique made an enormous difference to his willingness to submit to one and half hour brushing sessions. Things as simple as lying the dog down on a table or not flicking the wrist and yanking the hair - obvious to an experienced groomer, not obvious at all to a clueless pet owner.

The fundamental difficulty with these discussions is not experience. It's values. A lot of what is presented as fact is values based. Dogs on furniture is a good example. My dogs are not plotting a coup just because I let them sleep on the couch. I have no issue with people who don't want their dogs on furniture (providing they are giving them appropriate bedding), and I understand that sometimes a dog that needs to learn boundaries needs to be off the furniture. Ultimately tho' the furniture question is usually more about what kind of home you want to keep, not dog training. Corvus is not alone in being wary about calling behaviours "dominant". My first Saluki, with whom I made a ton of mistakes, frequently shut down on me. It was a result of my inexperience exacerbated by my trainers' inexperience with independent breeds. I'm not slighting the trainers for that, dealing with a total novice with a Saluki bitch possessing old school Saluki temperament is not most people's idea of a fun time. I'm sure I was one of those people about whom trainers thought "good lord, totally the wrong dog, what was she thinking?" but that's the breed I love, so I struggled through it. I never experienced it as my dog attempting to dominate me tho' others certainly did. If you observed her I'm pretty sure what you'd have read in my dog's face was "oh god, I'm sorry, I'm with stupid here and I just can't make her understand". Not "I'm the top bitch!" Someone who was very sighthound experienced looked at a video of us one day and said "she wants to do what you're asking, but you're so unclear she can't work it out". Bingo. Plenty of others had read her as stubborn or untrainable. If I had a dollar for the number of times people said "you have to show her who is boss!" but who offered no practical insight at all I'd have enough cash to buy her a gold swarovski crystal collar. I still regret a couple of things that happened during that time, when I handed her over to people I shouldn't have. What did work was the right eye seeing what was going on and suggesting practical techniques to try that were nothing to do with all that alphabetising crap. Also, I researched like crazy and read whatever I could find about training independent breeds. I've since seen "oh god, I'm sorry, I'm with stupid here and I just can't make him/her understand" on the faces of bright dogs in my classes. It bugs me that some of their handlers are probably going home and putting their feet up to watch Cesar Millan and will decide that the reason their dog blows them off is because it is "dominant" when the real reason is that the human is a seriously inadequate trainer. The former notion is far more palatable of course, and human psychology being what it is, people like someone else under them in the pecking order and don't like the idea that they might be incompetent. People forget that dominating a dog is really nothing to be proud of.

x 3 on the Poodlefan post. Great advice.

Edited for clarity: If praise is having the wrong effect (in this case, hyping), change the way it is being delivered. You can praise in a way that de-escalates. It sounds like she has bigger issues than toilet training, but until you find someone to help you with those, I would get a lawn chair and start spending a good bit of time outside after every meal, waking and playing. Give a treat for appropriate elimination. When you praise, don't startle her by shrieking "good girl!" as you might do with a happy exuberant puppy. Keep your voice low, friendly, soft and confident. You will have to keep a big reign on your own emotions. A nervous dog needs you to be predictable, quiet, totally consistent, confident and affectionate - you being strung out about the problems will make them worse - she has no idea you feel bad for her, and it wouldn't help if she did. Watch your body language, move slowly and deliberately. Watch your voice, keep your cues clear and even. The past is past, what you have to do is convince her, with your behaviour, that the present is safe.

My guess is overservicing. Some of that medication is very, very expensive. If you get on well with the vet who runs the practice, you might want to give them some feedback when they return from the fires.

I have chatted to a few people at work about dog purchases, but not in an official trainer capacity. I think you did the right thing. It's never fun to burst someone's bubble but as Cosmolo says, better to hear it now than be stuck with a massive problem later. One thing I don't say, once the person shows up in an obedience class, is "you should not have got that dog". Too late for that. But in the situation you mention if she picks something more suitable you've done her an enormous favour. Plenty of DOLers talk relatives out of pet shop and BYB purchases, I think talking someone out of buying a dog that has a high chance of ending up dead or in a shelter is a contribution to dog welfare as well.

I'm envious of you all. I asked about it too late after they'd run out of room! Anyone up for doing a report?

Well, the rain is refreshing! :rolleyes:

This is what I would try first, as they are smaller dogs I'd probably give them kongs or feed them their breakfast kibble in a buster cube. The OP would know her group of dogs, and know which ones are likely to set each other off. I'd crate those dogs in separate rooms. Good exercise is hard to go past tho', because if they're sleeping, they're not barking.

Agree with this. Your dog has compromised health if he is on Pred and he needs you to speak for him as he can't. That includes standing up to people who who will do things that will further compromise his health. Otherwise yes, put him a crate to sleep and the first person up in the morning takes the dog outside immediately (no excuses) and waits for him to go until he does. Go back to housetraining 101, but be reasonable if the dog is on medication that makes him pee more. By that I mean you may have to advocate for more tolerance in the house and family members will need to be more proactive about getting him outside to pee. Raincoat and gumboots by the back door!

I get it from Franklins. The brand stocked by Woollies here in Yass is nastier than the one in Franklins - smellier and just not as nice. I think Coles and Woollies are both reducing their lines in a lot of areas, so maybe if you live near an independent supermarket that does a lot continental lines you'll find the mackerel. Good luck!

Tinned mackerel. You usually have to look on the very top or very bottom shelf, but it's cheap and contains lots of good stuff (and no chewy heads).

We are super unoriginal but our routine goes like this and seems to work. 1 - Half hour to an hour of running and playing in the morning 2 - Put into the kennels with a buster cube or a kong. If it's hot, the kong is frozen. Works fine as far as I know (no-one has pulled teeth chewing on the wire, or inspired the neighbours to complain). One thing I intend to do is get those collar bark & pace counters that Ian Dunbar was talking about at his seminars to see if that lack of feedback really does indicate that they are OK. Based on weekend behaviour tho', our guys tend to crash after morning shenanigans and don't really wake up again until around four or five pm. So perhaps I have it easy

Actually, context matters a lot to that phrase and I don't think there is a normal meaning any more. Many people who are being slack use it to make the person querying what they are doing go away - as you have discovered in the building industry. Yes, Australia has a culture of getting on with it and not making a fuss but people also use that culture to shut people down if it suits them.

I've always been wary about using commercial anti-chew sprays on the dogs and dogs' clothing because the smell is usually quite strong and aversive, and the poor Salukis aren't the ones being naughty. Is there some way to separate your Borzoi from them when you're not there to supervise? You might also try some pajamas rather than ordinary coats. Kickatinalong.com.au do jarmies that are inexpensive, nice and warm, washable and very hard for houdini hounds to wriggle out of. Our Salukis live in theirs outside during winter - we might occasionally find they had extricated a back foot when we got home, but they never got out of them the way they used to get out of standard coats.

I am sorry to hear about Honey, I hope you find comfort in your memories. We lost one of our Salukis to this in November last year, definitely something for people in all breeds to consider as a risk (not just dachs, cockers, poodles etc). I had no idea the disease even existed before we lost our boy to it.

I emailed this morning and was told that they can't accept any more people for Sydney because they are full to capacity.

Yeah, I always have that in the back of my mind. I might make a general comment (like about the time I had 5 adolescent labs) but a specific comment about an individual - no. I try to keep the general comments old too - ie, not from current or recent classes. If I want to vent I tell OH

I posted about Dunbar in here, well in advance of the seminars. People followed up in that thread with links to the brochures.

If they make excuses go elsewhere. The other issue with some techniques is that while they may be appropriate for an experienced person with an eye for when to use them, they are often not appropriate for an inexperienced person. When it comes to club classes designed for teaching good manners to pets, if the kids in the household can't use the technique appropriately, then it's usually not a good idea to teach it imo. Sure some techniques have a place, but why you would start out with macho stuff in a club class is beyond me.