DeltaCharlie

Cody got his name as all my childhood I dreamed of being able to get a dog. I wanted a BC called Chloe and an ACD called Codie. Well I had to wait until I had moved out to get my first dog and he ended up being a mix of the 2 breeds... Cody was easier to make masculine than Chloe Delta kinda named herself, I had taken her around to mums after picking her up and she was going through the online lists and everytime she said the name "Delta" this little puppy would stop what she was doing and run over to her. A few hours later I was still there and giving my sister the shortlist of names to get her opinion, when I got to Delta she came flying across the room and jumped into my lap :D The rest is history. Charlie came with his name, I didn't particularly like it but didn't think it was worth trying to change it with all the paperwork etc so I kept it. I can't think of him as anything else now. In saying that, even before I got him I always thought of Charlie as a dog's name It became a bit of a joke amongst my friends having both dogs (Cody was gone by this point, hence why I got Charlie) named after the phonetic alphabet letters so I named my birds Whiskey and India (Indi). I also like the name Echo for a dog but couldn't go for a third phonetic alphabet name because that would no longer be coincidence :D When it came time to picking a name for my new pup I had moved right away from human names. I was right into dog sports and wanted names that would be quick off the tongue but also having speedy/agile/athletic type meanings. So, the new pup was named "Whip". There are a few dogs called Rebecca or Becky out there which I find a bit weird LOL but then my flatmate is Tammy and there are alot more of them out there!!!

I researched it extensively and this was the cheapest place I could find. Not the easiest website to navigate but they send it off that day (or the next morning if you order late) and I have never had a single issue with them. Greyhound Products Direct If you get lost, its under the Nature Vet heading right down near the bottom. Take note of the price: Liver Treats (120s) - $35.50 200g - $44.50 400g - $71.50 750g - $119.95 Then go to the order form (opens in a new window anyway). The order form is all online and fairly self explanatory and I usually do a bank transfer straight into their account.

Cody and Delta were shaped to weave, Cody with a ball and Delta with a "Manners Minder" at the end of the poles because she is such a food hog LOL. I tried every method under the sun with Charlie, gave up on ever teaching him to weave, then one day at Vickies place she gave it a go and had him weaving in about 10mins LOL. My favourite method with food is definitely what I used with Delta, it would probably work really well with the 2x2 method too. The manners minder is a remote controlled treat dispenser that also makes a beeping sound if you want (I substituted that instead of a click). I positioned it along the reward line and Delta knew that if she heard the beep then she did it correctly and continued forward to get her treat. It took me completely out of the picture and she learnt to weave independently. Then I made the mistake of babying her along weave poles once we started trialling and I no longer have a 100% independent weaver My new pup will be taught by my flatmate (she is training both pups to weave and Im teaching them the contacts... working to our strengths :D ) She has started doing entries only (he is 9months old) and at about 14 or so months he will be taught to weave. She has always taught using guides and she has some exceptional weaving dogs so that method works well for her. I think it is a matter of what works for you. I have never really been able to use guides, channels or V weaves with much success. I have always had the best results with shaping weaves, but I don't like the results I'm seeing with the 2x2 method even though they are similar. I've seen dogs taught with the 2x2 method who have recently start trialling who are missing easy weave entries, even multiple times in a row, and have no speed or drive through the weaves. That is not how I want my dog to weave. But that's a whole other discussion that came up on the agility training thread not too long ago and really doesn't need to be dredged back up.

Yeh getting in would have been do-able... its the getting out that night that would have posed the problem. You can't drive the cars in at night to pick up gear and we needed to drive back to Canberra that night so couldn't pick it up later or the following day. At the point that we pulled out, we thought Tammy may have been away with work so it would have been just me. I wouldn't have even been able to bring all those dogs up from Canberra LOL as I don't have a tow bar on my car. The other thing that would have made it hard is that 2 of them are only young pups, a few are petrified of kids (not a problem for the day of racing as it is roped off but not easy to walk through a crowd), and a few are huge food hogs who would drag us to whereever there was the whiff of dropped crumbs LOL It seemed that everything was going against us and when Tammy heard about the possibility of going away with work it kinda sealed the deal and we had to give it a miss. It left our team (Paws 4 Fun) in the lurch a little by withdrawing 5 racing dogs but unfortunately it couldn't be helped. Good luck to everyone going though

We were supposed to go but we wont be any more. The logistics of trying to get all the way from the carpark into the grounds (and back out again through the crowded eatery area) with 9 dogs and all the associated gear was just too much I used to do the show when I only had 2 dogs and a crate and that was hard enough, no way we could do it with 9 dogs.

I used to live next door to a Maltese/ACD years ago. It was the most adorable dog, its coat colour was that of a blue ACD (very obvious and perfect cattle markings) but had the long silky coat of a maltese. Height wise it was somewhere in between the 2 breeds. There are all sorts of weird and wonderful crossbreeds around the agility and flyball circuit, I will try and find some photos of them.

Here is the photo of Chopper and Charlie going over the spread together in their pairs run a few years ago at CDC Taken by Tammy so I can only link to the image. Charlie and Chopper

before http://img72.imageshack.us/i/1490ala8.jpg/ after http://img242.imageshack.us/i/dsc0415ayo5.jpg/ http://img185.imageshack.us/i/dsc0498vg9.jpg/

Just re-watched those 2 videos that Vickie posted, I couldn't watch them properly earlier as youtube is playing up for me and I could only watch a sec then wait for it to buffer, watch another second then wait etc. Very hard to get a true viewing of the dogs like that. Wings is gorgeous BUT he has very quick footwork, he is not actually driving his momentum through the weave poles. The other dog (60 weaves) is actually carrying his head forward like you would want, it isn't being held upright.

I love that we can get into discussions like this, it is always interesting to hear the different experiences of people. Hmmm, not sure I agree with that Bec. I can think of a few spectacular weavers, running at warp speed who are very upright in body & weave with their heads high. Don't be fooled into thinking that just because a dog weaves really fast it is actually weaving as fast as possible. All I can say is, can you imagine how fast all those dogs would weave if they had their heads down???? Scary to think. Think about the science of it all. I did a lot of biomechanics study at uni where we broke down the very essence of movements for elite sportspeople and also looked at movements within the animal kingdom. Think about greyhounds- have you ever seen a greyhound race with its head upright? What do you do if you want to let your horse really run? You give him his head. One of the first things we look at to determine whether a child (athlete or regular) is running correctly is how they carry their head- is it upright or forward? Or look at it from the opposite perspective- how does a halti work? It stops the dog from being able to lower its head and therefore removing alot of the power and forward momentum. I remember being told by show people when I first got into obedience with Cody that if you control the head, you control the dog. Its the same thing... the further forward the head is, the more power being thrown into the forward momentum. Don't get me wrong though, if my dog weaved that fast I don't think I would bother fixing it Agree - he is not a finished product and it is more a product of the dog than it is of the method. What you see there is a world apart from what he was prior to starting with the 2 x 2's. It is not how I would want my dogs weaving either, but it is far closer than what I did have. I guess seeing the change is why I'm an advocate for 2 x 2's - if I am closer to the poles I get even less. I can certainly sympathise with you there Charlie would have to be one of the worst weavers but I was so excited that I finally got him to a point where he could do 12 poles that I stopped there. Doing weaves with him has always been a source of great frustration (which is why I ended up sending him to Camp Vickie to learn) that Im not going to push my luck and try and get them how I want them. I agree with what everyone is saying in regards to teaching the method correctly. I guess I have only really seen people teach it incorrectly and I just don't like what I am seeing in the end performance. Dogs walking through the poles etc. BUT, I think that 2x2 is a great way to teach entries and all the dogs taught using this method seem to have an awesome understanding of their entries which is why I have dabbled in it with Delta, who could already weave.

Ah but we are talking about the states where they are so much further ahead than us, most instructors who come over for seminars put Australia about 10 years behind the rest of the world, WA is the best state as far as foundation work and training goes, they are pretty far ahead of the eastern states. It was great training over there for a few nights when we went over for the nats because they do everything so much better. Although we have been trying to tell that to clubs over here for years WA actually have the right idea, they don't skip over the foundation stuff and it really shows in their dogs. By the time people have gone through the foundation classes over in the USA they are well and truly proficient in shaping behaviours It makes 2x2 much easier to understand I agree.

Look, I'm basing alot of mine on what I am seeing of people's dogs learning the 2x2 method. Even AD's CK to me is not driving through those poles, his head is upright and he appears to me to be too calculated about the whole thing. Yes he can weave and yes it is reliable, but it is not how I would want my dogs to weave. A dog that is driving through the weave poles will have their head down and forward and I'm not seeing that in most of these videos. That is not restricted to working breeds, that is any breed of dog. It also isn't restricted to weave poles either, a dog that runs a course with its head up is not running as fast as it can. To be running/weaving at maximum speed a dog will be throwing everything into it and leading with the head, not the chest. I can always tell instantly with Charlie when he doesn't want to be out there (anyone who knows him knows that he has a love/hate relationship with agility) because his head will come up when he runs and jumps, and will be upright in the weaves. That's when we find the quickest route home and get out of there There are a few ways to do it, I have always taught my dogs to weave on poles that are only 50cm high so they have no choice but to keep their heads down low or they cant see the poles. That muscle memory remains. Also, like Kelpiechick and a few others have said, it can work well IF you train it correctly. Using anything but their favourite toy/food is not going to achieve the best results. Accepting anything but head down striving through is not going to achieve the best results. Focussing too much on just getting the dog to do it is not going to achieve the best results. Walking alongside your dog while it weaves is not going to achieve the best results, you need to be pushing the dog. I could go on and on because as soon as you have a dog that weaves slowly, you are stuck with it unless you completely retrain the behaviour. I will compose a video of some of our dogs weaving (and their initial lessons) when I get a chance, might not be today though. I did try 2x2 with Charlie for a little bit but didn't like it and neither did he. I have used elements of it to work on weave entries with Delta though, although I still prefer weaving drills for that. Oh and to answer one of the questions from earlier, I have alot of friends over in the states and canada who trial at a very high level. Also, trainers who have come over to do seminars. These are people who have tried the 2x2 method and didn't like the results but have used it with those in their classes as it is a black and white method of teaching for new handlers and dogs. Anyone with aspirations to go further than club comps they advise to seek another method. They themselves don't have any methods that they are trying to get people using, they are just pointing them in the direction of other established methods (guides, channels, shaping etc).

You guys are spot on in your thinking. Ness, I'm assuming Kenzie was going as fast as she could through them by the sounds of things, which is why she has maintained that speed with 12 poles. I'm talking about the people who are progressing their dogs because they can do it right, without insisting on them doing it at full speed. Yes, some dogs will be slower than others, that's just natural. BUT not getting the maximum out of each dog (regardless of how fast that maximum may be) is something that I don't understand. Every method has its merits, this just isn't one that I like (I have bought the DVD etc and am well aware of what it entails). I think it is great for teaching entries, but I don't like the end product with most of the dogs I have seen. It seems to focus on precision before speed where I think that they should be taught at the same time.

That's one of the criticisms that many top trainers have of the 2x2 methods and one reason why I wouldn't teach my dogs to weave that way. It is much harder to speed up a dog once it has been taught to do something slowly, yes confidence will add some speed but they never seem to reach the speed I would like to see in my dogs. I much prefer to teach my dog to do everything at full speed right from the word go, weaving is a muscle memory exercise and I don't want my dogs muscle memory thinking it needs to go slower than maximum speed. All the dogs that I see doing 2x2 are so deliberate about it, like they are thinking about things at each step not just doing it coz their body remembers how. As Ronda Carter once said, "I don't want my dog counting 1,2...1,2...1,2... all the way through the weave poles, thats why we call it the Ants Go Marching method" If it was my dog that was going slow, and I wanted to stick with the method I would be going right back to the very beginning and insisting on the dog doing it at maximum speed before you progress any further. Don't settle for second best, even in the first couple of steps.

Ours are allowed to go where they like while we are eating given they do not stare at us! That is a pet hate and any dog caught staring is given one chance to "GO AND LIE DOWN!!!" or they are thrown in a crate. Usually we have the terriers on the lounge beside us as they aren't doing it to get closer to the food, that is just where they like to lie 24/7 There is usually at least 1 BC at our feet, sometimes 2 (but they have to lying down asleep) and the others are just scattered around the loungeroom. When we have visitors everyone is crated and we expect visitors dogs to be crated too. Not fair to put ours away if theirs aren't.

Whip is 6 months old and still doesn't really get to run with the other guys because he has no sense of self preservation and they run too much. Every time the chiropractor sees him she says he is trashed and is doing too much... I can't imagine what it would be like if I actually left him to run free with the other dogs. He usually gets to go out with one or 2 of our dogs, never with the whole pack (7 others), and even then it is only for an hour or 2 a few times a week, if that. Just because they are happy to play doesn't mean that it is doing her any good. Delta has spondolosis through her spine which they suspect is from doing too much as a pup. Their joints are still growing and it doesn't take much to cause damage.

I've always loved Border Collies, even as a child although Id never had a lot to do with them LOL, something about them just kept saying pick me pick me I couldn't have a dog growing up so it wasn't until I moved in with my ex when I was about 20 that I got my first dog, Cody. My life probably didn't suit a BC at that time and had he come from someone who screened puppy buyers I may not have even be able to get him, but I was determined to own this breed that I had always desired and was prepared to change my life in whatever way necessary. Ive always been an incredibly active person so that part was easy, and I quickly grew to love our daily walks and playing fetch, soccer, etc. When he was 9months old I discovered a local obedience club and we started going to weekly classes. They also ran agility classes so when he was about 14 months old we checked those out too. From that moment on I was hooked. Just before he turned 2 I got Delta with agility in mind. 3 weeks later he was killed by a car and I started looking for a second dog, which is where Charlie came along. He was 2 years old (I didn't want 2 puppies at once) but he wasn't as keen on agility as I would have liked. He loved tennis balls so I set out tofind a sport he would love... and along came flyball :D I will never be without a BC and I couldn't imagine ever wanting any other breeds. My flatmate has 2 terriers (along with our 6 BCs and Charlie) and while they are great little dogs, they just aren't a BC :D

We use these guys for all our interceptor. They are always really fast, ship either that day or the following day and have had nothing but positive experiences with them. With 8 dogs, we order from them every month

In regards to the Flyball titles... FDCH (Flyball Dog Champion) and AFCH (Australian Flyball Champion) are some of the first titles that you gain. Delta got her FDCH in her first comp from memory (it was a 2 day comp). They are far from a champion title when compared to the other sports so should not be at the front, Im guessing that whoever did my title that time didnt realise.

I don't think it really makes any difference at all what order you list them in so long as everything applicable is included there. So you cant forget to put your AD title on the list then enter ADX... Mine at the moment according to their paperwork are: Charlie AFCH JDX GD SD SPD Delta FDCH AD JDX GDX SD SPDX Yet on one certificate they had Charlie's AFCH (Australian Flyball Champion) before his name like you would for a normal championship title and on some of the ones they give me titles are actually missing from them. But so long as you list the appropriate titles on entry forms it all works out as the titles are correct on their database. Those titles on my dogs aren't in order of date in any way, as both got their JD titles followed by SPD titles, GD, then SD. Delta's AD was the last novice title to be gained, and she was already in masters for a few things by that point. I can't remember when I first bothered applying for flyball titles to the ANKC, but it was definitely after they already had a few agility titles. Most dogs that I have seen have obedience titles first, but there are others that have them last. I really don't think it makes any difference at all what order they go into so long as they are all there. Usually Championship titles go before the name, regular titles after.

Chantelle (tibetan terrier x) No idea Rough Collie Border Terrier Mini Foxie Another one of Cookie from before (still no idea of breed) ESS again Some sort of spaniel I also know of the following breeds playing flyball: - Westies - Min Pins - Maltese - Chihuahuas - Cocker Spaniels - Schipperkes - Viszlas - German Shorthaired Pointers - Lots of Staffies - Ive seen TerraNik run Jedi and Ahsoka so there are Keeshonds and Lappies doing it - Whippets - Bearded Collies - Silky Terriers

That was possibly Daisy (the pug) her mum is a DOLer (yarrowfell). I don't have access to all my photos but will do my best. Flyball first Dudley the Briard and his brother Dougal the Spanish Water Dog (have no photos at the moment, although I know I have some at home) CKCS Pug Golden Retriever Dalmation Lab Ridgeback x ESS Not sure if Cookie is a Pom x or a German Spitz or what. Someone may know her and be able to help me out LOL JRTs (although they are a dime a dozen in flyball)

Trying to think what we used to do at obedience christmas parties. I know there was one game where you had to race with your dog about 20m put a sock on each of their feet, then walk them back to the starting line. If a sock fell off you had to stop, put it back on and then continue. I remember being disqualified for taking a liberal interpretation of the rule and tying the socks in knots to Charlie's feet LOL Another one we used to play was blind trialling. So you were blindfolded but had to treat it like an obedience trial and follow the instructions of the judge. Doesn't really help the agility folk though (we had a seperate party for agility). Lia if it was a PICSI I remember a musical chairs game there one year. You had the chairs in the middle and a ring of witches hats about 2m away from the chairs. While the music played you walked around the outside of the cones and when it stopped you had to put your dogs alongside a cone in either a sit/drop/stand whatever they called out and the dog had to remain in a stay while you found a chair. If the dog moved you were out. One year we had a fancy dress parade. We also did a restrained recall race my first year of obedience but I didn't enter as it wasn't a situation I wanted to put Cody into as he had fear aggression issues. It would really depend on the dogs there as to whether or not you did something like that, and I would limit the number of dogs in each heat. Another thing people like is just to give there dogs a go at something different. Set out some jumps, tunnels etc and let the obedience people have a go. Maybe give a demonstration of dogs having races through weave poles etc. At agility xmas parties we used to get out the flyball gear just so people could have a go at something different (the club had the gear but didnt actually do flyball anymore).

Is it the 'Reliable running AFrames: a method for all types of dogs'? If so we have it here but I have never actually watched it. I went from 4 on the floor to a 2o2o with Delta but never really considered running contacts. Without my own equipment it would have been too hard to train it reliably, just not something you can do with training twice a week. Now that I have 24/7 access to equipment I could possibly try it with Whip, but not until after he has a reliable 2o2o. That way I can always go back to it if needed. I quite like having the option up my sleeve to make the dog wait on the end while I regather my thoughts and get into position lol. I think it is the reason Delta and I do so much better in agility than jumping, because I get a chance to take a few seconds to work out what I am doing next and settle her if she is becoming feral. Probably not the best reason to give for liking 2o2o though... that im lazy and cant think on my feet LOL

Found some more My 2 from a few years ago "When she presses the button, you look over there and I will look over here, ok?" Actually looking at the camera 2 fosters I had a few years ago Different 2 fosters with my guys Puppy Delta with my other dog Cody (RIP) With my sisters AmStaff pup Missy Not all conventional portraits but they have groups of dogs LOL. Most are before I got a proper camera too... although my phone did me well for quite a while