KitKat

It's different for different dogs - and experiance makes a big difference as well. I wouldn't raise any dog i have on raw again, in fact i'd never rely on just raw for any dog of mine at any age, and i was much happier with the growth rate of my 2nd GSD on the RC GSD Junior - it is fed in conjunction with raw meaty bones - but my dogs went into shocking condition on huge amounts of raw/barf when that was purely their diet - just personal experiance. I could give you good and bad examples any and all diets/brands - all people that i know well or have dealt with - each dog is an individual.

The first 12months is probably the biggest growth period, they slow up a little after that!

Sleep well little Snickers Thinking of you Lyndsay *hugs*

Hehehe...i don't only do it to my dogs...but also the work dogs (even if i'm not taking them out!)

Some Councils will take some steps...eg knock on the door and want to check that each dog is registered and that the person who has bred more then one litter is registered with the Council (Local not CCC) - if nothing else they'll have to pay rego and possibilty a small fine? (Brisbane do this...well...is supposed to do this...lol)

The only issue with raw is getting the balance right (calcium/protien/fat/minerals/etc), which might be why your breeder seems against it. Premium food does make it easy as each bowl of food is balanced, raw works on the balance being over a few days/week etc. The RC GSD puppy mix is very good, and has no wheat - but if you are set about going with raw then get a small bag of the GSD puppy/junior and mix over to raw as you would if switching dry foods. You could consider the BARF patties? they are balanced per pattie but are raw still? Basically if you are set on going with a raw diet then read up as much as you can about the different types and go from there. ETA - the amount of RAW/BARF to give a pup is a percentage of the pups weight - if you get the BARF books it does go into how much you need. I found with my GSD's i had to feed a lot more then the recommended percentage - but each dog is different, and it depends on how much activity the pup/dog is doing.

I've used the Maxi, GSD and 4300/4400 with great results

A tin of Pal? I usually keep a couple of tins for just that purpose...mydogs think they are getting a treat at the same time!

I could count at least three vets i know of breeding and supplying mix bred, high produced numbers of cats and dogs for profit, and they sell with the comment of 'bred by vet' or 'store run by vet' etc. Yes they aren't on TV - but people think they are getting a well bred, perfect pup/kitten because it was bred by a vet.

He has also said on the 7pm project that female dogs DON'T need to have one litter to settle down/grow up/etc - and from memory when a female presenter said 'oh but the puppies are so cute!' said something along the lines of 'yes they are but...' and said about rescue pups and reputable breeders etc. Can't remember the exact go...but was very happy that he put the presenter in her place since she was all go about at least giving each bitch a litter because her dog was so cute so the puppies would be or some crap. ETA - I'll still vote for Dr Chris - he's much better then another vet i could name who passed up presenting at a expo encouraging responsible pet ownership etc to open a new PP store!

Tilly...it's surprising how much dirt they can hold in their coats...even normal coated boys like yours perhaps cement everything and put in fake hedges?

*hugs* I can say i know the feeling - i'd probably consider looking into the dogs diet, electric/static collar type fencing (certainly helped with one of my dogs - until one of the other dogs started chewing the static wire etc) and even look at possible sedation?

+1 Glad to see you back Jed

Many believe that the amounts of protein and fat etc in the puppy kibble encourages too fast a growth - i think much can also come down to the breed of dog, lines and the food the pup is eating. If it was myself, eg say when i get my Berner pup, I'd be buying the best possible food siuting the pup (i'll be aiming for the RC Giant range) and feeding the pup puppy food until the pup is around 6 months onto the Junior range and then start introducing adult kibble at around 12months (RC is the only range that does baby puppy/puppy, Junior and adult etc i think)- raw meaty bones etc will already be a standard part of the diet.

I'd drop the mince unless it has bone in it, stick with the necks and also consider frames etc. Royal Canin also has a GR formular but their maxi puppy is very good, Proplan does a very good large puppy as well, and Nutro and Eaglepack are also very good and seem to be getting more readily available. Also do a search on this forum for Ester C to help with his legs depending on why they are a bit 'crooked' - it's readily available from the chemist.

I'm a GSD nut and will always love them - but where i'd been tossing and turning re the Berners and Leos...i met a Leo in the flesh today and the lovely dog did nothing for me...lol - so a Berner will be the next pooch. I am seriously considering sticking to one dog when my two GSD's pass...but...you just never know when another GSD might just need to move in (i already want to steal several from work! ) ETA - i got mobbed by a cheeky boy Berner at work one day...and that was it, i was suckered!

I also suggest AMS :D

I'd love to pop by and say g'day to the Xolo group as well - unfortauntely i can only make it for one day as i'd be saving just to get into the Ekka once as it is!

Anyone going in on Monday the 9th and need a hand with their dogs?? I'm not up to in-ring work, but i'm handy outside of it with holding etc I'll be in there to see the Bernese but otherwise i'm happy to be helpful

Lol...i decided on a Bernese being my next breed because one lovely boy basically mobbed me and that was that - but my Bernese is a few years off yet. If i get another GSD...it will most likely be one of the GSD's from work, either retired, failed or fostered

Good chance she's been missing the minerals etc for a long period of time - so it can take time to rebuild such to normal amounts. Also it could have become a habit for her as well as much as anything else.

For comparison when i last saw Tilly's youngest he was in similar condition to many of the young working GSDs i now see pretty regularly - more so the ones that have been learning or beginning working rather then coming in from Fostering. I've seen him when he's missed a breakfast and it's a noticible difference, the difference might be more noticible now - they will go through more food in winter as they use more in general. When i was feeding Raw/BARF 3-4kgs per dog daily was pretty much the norm - but i followed the hype for a while before i decided it wasn't worth the issue (or the huge amount of money) - and that was with my guys doing less work then Tilly's. Unfortuantely for her boy he doesn't deal well with kibble. It's possibly worth getting blood tests, cultures done etc. I'd have to get my hands on him again to see if my opinion of his weight agrees with Tilly's (not that i'm an expert or anything). ETA - Also thought i should add - this boy isn't a slim light build boy - he's a big solid GSD even for a youngster.

Hehehe...i know Tilly's dogs...and they need that much food!! They are good size boofers and use up the food they eat quickly They are great condition...very well built, muscly but lean. They are also very active boys so that might have something to do with it? When i was feeding Raw/Barf to my GSD's, i was feeding that much or more JUST to keep my dogs from looking starved - i was just lucky they were coated GSDs else i might have been reported. I have found when i JUST feed meaty bones - no vegies, very little mince, no offal they keep much better condition...mind you they might go through 2-3kgs (between them) of bones a night . Also Sabre will vomit up froth when he's very hungry - sorta like when he has a very empty belly. Between my two boys...i swear Bronx gets all the fat and Sabre gets all the lean Sabe gets a good 2-3 times more food then Bronx does and i still have to watch that B doesn't get podgy and that Sabe doesn't get too scrawny.

Hmmm...i'm tempted by the XL crate - it's almost the same size as the 42" Noz2Noz crate i'd use for when taking a GSD to work...

I would...and it wouldn't bother my dogs as they love the attention. Bronx spent most of a day at an expo dressed up as superman...with kids flapping his cape and everything ...hmm...i should find what i've done with that...