moosmum

No harm either way as long as XYZ and ABC are being bred covering all of the other bases as well. Its only when you get someone breeding for XYZ that hasnt covered the rest of the alphabet. Nope, No harm catering to popularity while its backed by independent understanding of your breed as well,but not a sound basis on its own for improvement.

Betterment of breed might mean having the courage of conviction to persist against popular opinion. A breeder should be aiming for sound understanding of what they are trying to achieve and independent opinion IMO. Breeding miniature horses I think they illustrate that when we get people saying "I like XYZ, but every one wants ABC so I must produce that" Due to popularity,ABC is very hard to come by so those used in breeding programs aften have nothing else to offer but ABC colour pattern.A whole lot of horses are then bred with nothing to offer the gene poole other than a temporary fad colour pattern. By the time this potential breeder has their XYZ and is producing,the fad has moved on,maybe to what the person originaly said they prefer.

Being honest in your assesment of your breed as a whole,and especialy your own dogs.They aren't perfect,so what can be worked on? Recognise that perfection may be unattainable and subjective,but as a breeder, should be the goal anyway.Regardless of current trends and "Fashion". Understanding your breed and the problems or "imperfections" that come with it,and striving to eliminate them in your lines,with out introducing a new set of problems. This is my interpretation.

I have a 14 yr old Dobie who doesn't do much of anything these days and will be given her wings soon. So many fond memories! She was raised as part of the family with my kids,now all grown. Seeing her sitting in the lounge watching puppet shows the kids would put on for her.(then stealing the puppets to play with herself ) Kids ignoring her efforts to play with the squeaky toy,so would hold it up against their ears and squeak it. Kids getting into "her" bed so would cover them with her blanket. The "Demos" we would do before teen partys just to be sure the kids recognised she was a guardian breed so not to take liberties( Tell her to "get" my son,who would be on the other side of the kitchen table.She would be growling and barking,chasing him 'round and 'round the table looking quite fierce till some one piped up and said"Oh! what will she do if she gets him" He would stop and the kids saw that she just poked him to try and get him to run some more. The games of hide and seek,standing by my side grumbling at the kids if they did'nt stop what they'd been told.Trying to answer the ringing phone,Her "Oh No!" she came out with one day when we arrived home and said "no bone today". Her controll in very rough and tumble games. she was allowed to grab clothing when it was old enough to not matter and it was funny watching the youngest try to keep his pants on. The boy running with Lou after him,he runs behind a chair in the corner and pulls it after him to block her and says,"HaHa,You can't get me!" and for the first time ever,she leaps on to the chair and launches herself over.Got him! Lou is all fond memories.She has been one of those perfect dogs.

I don't think you can state 1 age is best for all dogs/homes. A lot depends on the home,the purpose of the dog,the breed,conditions at the breeders etc. 8 weeks seems a good minimum age for most,but of the best dogs I have ever owned,most were brought home at 6 weeks and I would do it again gladly,provided I was sure of the lines and able to assess the pup for myself.I have found at that age,the pups can learn basic house rules,toileting etc very very quickly,often with never an accident and have been much more in tune with their handlers,very confident around people,in new situations and willing to listen.In all cases these dogs were still raised with other dogs so didn't miss out on that part of their education but I feel it was enhanced along with the dogs ability to "read" people and situations. Assesment is much more difficult at that age though the basic personality is there to see,it hasn't been tempered so much by litter mates and mum. In very large litters,where mum is no longer feeding pups or they are spending long periods kenneled,I feel earlier homing can be the better option provided the new owner is dog savey and able to give the pup plenty of attention and time. Not something I would advise for the average owner though,especialy these days.

They tell us dogs only act ot of self interest,and can't feel emotion. They aren't human,but they are capable of so much more than we give them credit for,or oportunity for. In his shoes,I doubt I would feel more like living now.

Great news Erny I will keep my my fingers crossed that its a long term solution.That would be awsome! Horribly frustrating and upsetting dealing with allergies and would very hard for you with so many reactors. I take my hat off to you! Going to get some calendula for my husbands allergies to test the tea on him.Its like 3rd degree burns for him and dealing with allergies in a human is hard enough for me.Your determination to beat this has my admiration too.

Erny, If you can't find horse in your area let me know and i'll see what I can do here. The "doggers" turn up at every horse sale,so shouldn't be too hard to track down a local source through the yards.

Horse meat at least you should be able to find close to home.

Whoa! Thanks for that.Up to you Erny, Do I persist with enquiries?

I believe horse meat is pretty clean generaly. I'm a horse person myself,but figure it makes practical sense so long as its done humanely. I've known of horse people who've sold to dog people doing their own butchering,just because they know that person will do it with respect. I get the impression its a fairly wide spread practice.

When theres so much need for caution I wouldn't want to push the goat either. I'm sorry I can't say where you could try for camel,but I suspect where you can get horse would be a good start.Now where to find horse.:laugh: You might have to track them down through the sale yards unless your dog contact is still around.Abatoirs might be able to steer you right. I heard mention of a place in sydney that supplied it.I can see if I can confirm it if thats any help?

Wow,that sure sure makes things dificult! Whats quinoa? Just wondering if you have access to goat or camel and how he might go with either of them.

I would guess yes. My dogs were selected for a natural protective instinct and we see this sort of thing a lot but its not always a strictly protection thing I've noticed.It seems like they are a well disiplined pack who have learned to work together,and with us. They seem to recognise our social rules and work with us to enforce them. We had a small stray wander in once who was terror ,attacking any of our dogs for no reason.The dobie put up with it and ignored it(the stray was only up to his knees) Then the terrier went for a small terrer bitch we had and and before I could rescue her,the dobie calmy walked over,picked up the terrier and placed him gently down 10 ft away. Another has herded our old tiny boy under the car when they played zoomies and keep him out of harms way till the game was over,alert us to the ringing phone,straying kids and generaly help out.She brings it to our attention when things aren't as they should be.ie horses in the yard.She also did a similar thing for me,not another dogwhen a stranger pulled up on th road in front of our rural property ,jumped the fence and ran straight for me with no greeting.She ran straight for him till he pulled up and called a greeting that I answered,then escorted him to me keeping slightly in front watching his face and kept him at a walk. Another took to protecting the laundry on the line after getting in trouble for pulling it off herself. So maybe not strictly protection but an enforcing of rules? I agree,its realy interesting to see those sorts of interactions and makes me ask all sorts of questions.

Impact of diet on canine health is a good one H.W Also like the research into helping people select and raise good family pets. Those 2 should be relevent to the majority of pet owners. Another subect I am very curious about is breeding for intelligence (trainability/human focus and desire to please and interact etc,not simple ,I know) I have known some extrordinary dogs and heard of many more eg: Theo in Sydney many years ago.I think we might see some exciting results. At the same time I have to wonder about the ethics of such reseach.Who would be entrusted with the raising and care of those dogs?

When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. How is that question either bullying or ridicule? Your right Sheridan,P.L. I may have jumped to my own conclusions there,but I'm still going to leave this alone.its not fair to this thread.

When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas.

Then you read it different to me. Corvus states Mcgreevy doesn't doesn't want to end pedigree dogs. He does not see why his interest in their health necessarily means he wants to end them. Nor do I.

Tess . looks like a good book,will have find that! The photos look beautiful and capture so much.

I assume this comment is aimed at my post. I don't want to de-rail this thread,but I'm honestly interested to hear why you would view this area of research as "pushing an agenda" or incompatible for breeders of pedigree and pure breeds of animals. The benefits of pure bred,pedigree animals are irrefutable and recognised.There are surely going to be negatives as well that desereve research and recognition not only for a balanced view,but ensure best practices are clearly understood so those effects can be minimised. The only threat I see to pure bred,pedigree animals is if these negatives are dismissed or covered up so that fanaticism rules policy.

that's just part of the issue, isn't it? it'd need to be a panel of independent, unbiased, knowledgeable and sensible people from inside and outside the breeding community, surely. Wouldn't want to leave it to chance and have it become a farce like BSL. Would they be elected from the general population? appointed by an individual? Who would this body be answerable to?

And who will write this charter,decide who is granted license,and police it? Who will you trust to decide policy and direction to choose what dogs people can own and who has the right to breed?

I think if pedigree breeders were openly permitted to cross breed,the organisation of registries and their more responsible outlook would filter down to influence better practices and responsibility in the general population. Recognition of purbreds predictable traits would become more widespread and pedigrees valued for the information they impart and theirr purpose more readily understood.

But Rascal who and where are they? Why are they not leading the industry/public towards their cause? Why are their names not commonly known and referred to in say pet shops proud to sell their quality 'product'? Why are their no media stories on the great work they are doing? Until the number of amazing, beautiful and deserving dogs (pure or cross breed) who are dying every single day in every state of this country reduces significantly I cannot support any deliberate back yard breeding, puppy farming or selling of animals through pet shops. It is simply not necessary. Nor is it in a dog's best interests. It should not be considered an easy way to make money or supplement an income. 1stly,Ethical BYBers would be highly unlikely to sell through pet shops. 2ndly,there are so many BYB'ers .With out representation from a body concerned with improvement with in that "industry" (for lack of a better word)who is qualified to find and promote those striving to improve and breed for purpose rather than profit when the words "back yard breeder" have become such a taboo? few are going to openly proclaim it. 3rdly,why are they not leading the industry /public towards their cause? Its not that simple.They may well be doing just that, promoting responsible breeding practice,just not specifiying by whom!

I agree with this one whole heartedly! Another area I would like to see researched will likely offend many here.Regardless,I feel its an area we owe at least a properly researched look. Health in pedigree dogs deserves real research into the benefits/drawbacks of introducing other breeds into rare,endangered or weakened (Health issues) pedigree lines. My own research and observation leads me to believe results can bring unexpected bennefits not only physicaly,but mentaly and I wonder about the "silent" effects of closed lines. What are the mental effects of closed lines/inbreeding as opposed to selective and limmitted out crossing? What effects are had on open populations when severely inbred dogs are introduced? Do effects dissipate over generations or contribute to over all decline in health over time in open populations? Before I get jumped on for this sugestion,I am NOT anti- pedigree! I AM for understanding ideas before dissmissing them out of hand.A more thorough understanding of this relatively recent ideal of closed lines forever and long term effects is deserved,not only on pedigree populations,but the over flow effects on non pedigree animals.