moosmum

Mars, I have a Dobe. Girl who is 12 and still going strong and we expect ours to live to 14 on past experience. My 1st dog,a collie cross lived to 18 years.He saw me through my childhood and the birth of my children.Very sadly missed to this day.

A friend has just asked if I have any ideas how to stop her 3-4 month old female puppy Weeing on her bedding every time she is given a fresh mattress or rug to lie on. She has otherwise been house trained from 8 weeks old and her owner says it seems like she is marking it. I have not seen this before. Any ideas?

Absolutely agree! The first looks untidy to me and as though he's hit the roids, the second looks very clean and sexy. All Dobes should look sexy IMO, they're a classy dog. Got to agree,I prefer the less extreme older types myself. (Steroids were my thought too)

When I was looking for a very specific type of dog I had no idea where to start,and was unable to find what I wanted for years,literaly.When I found it,it was a cross bred. Your average member of the public has never heard of DOL,does not subscribe to dog magazines. They are unaware of the resources. Searching breeders on the net can be very time consuming and may be of little help if litters are unavailable. my search brought me into contact with a lot of shonky establishments. It would have been nice to be able to find reputable places as easily. I think its about accessability and can't understand why that would not be a good thing.

Well i hope it works for poor Mason quickly,its awful seeing them so uncomfortable with this. Good luck with the treatments. If he has allegies already I think the water may well have set this one off.Poor boy.

I don't drink beer (or any alcohol) much. And she knows better then to get between me and caffeine. There is risk taking, then there is plain foolishness ...but the serious answer is no, I'm careful not to let that happen. But she would if she could. The one I had as a kid used to pick th poppies mum had growing,pluck all the petals and eat the centres.Yep,a druggie!

The girl we have now was just raised as part of the family,with the kids.No formal training, she never needed it! The one I had as kid tho' got lots of training.Could be very stuborn with a kid as leader but learned so easily!Back then I used to challenge that I could train him to do anything with in 5 minutes,just say what.(stupid kid,smart dog) Enormous self confidence in both these dogs too.

Interesting! We have to take the phone off the hook if we leave our girl because if it rings and we aren't her to answer she will try to get it off the hook.Also great at alerting us to things that are as they should not be,like horses in the yard or another critter in trouble.She often tries imitating our behaviour and has a great sense of the ridiculous.She even has a "silly walk" where she lifts her feet out and to the sides in an exagerated manner while tossing her head side to side. I had another like this as a kid and they have both been very cluey dogs as far as people go,with a very human like type of intelligence. The other was more easily bored,being a town dog and would wander to look for amusement.(in the years when this sort of thing was common and taken for granted!)Both try new things and "helping". ie: see you watering the garden so come up nudging your hand till you give them the hose to have a go themselves.

Yeah, I didn't think your dog was allergic, just chucked that out there more for Mason's mum Weird that the vet didn't say what it was... did they offer a treatment at all? Can you ask them? The vet offered no ideas at all! I was prety disapointed,but 2 of my kids get a allegies and their skin reacts to the dam water too,so I have assumed its a bacterial problem and just avoid the dam,but when she does get in there it flares up overnight and I just resume the wound spray while its working.

Did your vet say what is was? I would suspect bacterial or fungal cause if related to the dam... Mason's Mum: An allergic dog may be more prone to picking up fungal or bacterial things from the dam / river as well, as their skin barrier function may be compromised, so getting that functioning better may help in the long run... Nope. Vet had her there under anesthetic for speying,so a good chance to look and explore.She has no other alegies and 12 yrs. Wound spray takes a few days,but does clear it till next time she gets her feet in the water.

I will be interested to hear what your vet says,because my girl gets the same and the vet was no help at all! I tried bathing in salt water,antiseptics and antibiotics. What does work is the enzyme wound sprays. It seems to come after a dip in the dam water so i try to keep her out. Would be nice for a better solution though.

Yep,I've got one too. She is not particularly drivey or excitable,never been easily bored but thats likely her environment too....Lots of mental stimulation She can be an emarrassment tho'. She will poke and prode at things,like the girl sitting on the curb with her back to us.As we walked past Lou gave her a sharp prod on the back of her neck to test out the neat little bun sitting there! Just a big sticky beak,always checking out anything new and not shy about it.

How about a Doco. on dogs changed role in society? Increasing time demands on families, legislation and lack of education is leading to fewer dogs seen in society...which leads to lack of education,more complaints,more legislation and fewer dogs in society. I think the need for education on dogs in school cirriculum(safety and behaviour around dogs,legislation, empathy/behaviour and welfare)is imperative to avoid the problems escalating to more of th same. Should be some great footage from the not so long ago when dogs were taken for granted in large numbers sharing kids fun times.

Dobes can't herd?!! Some one forgot to tell my old boy.He used to bring the goats back for us when ever they got onto the railway track! As for similarities between Rotties,Dobes and Ridgies,I believe it! We had pure dobes for years untill we were given a 3 way cross of those breeds. She is fantastic,the sweetest,most placid and affectionate dog you could ask for.Loves kids and other animals.BUT if she thinks we are threatened she will react fast and decisively.We might not need protecting.It might because someone has jumped towards us suddenly,or not hearing us say "NO" to what they are doing or a visitor yelling at their kids. The good thing is she has ALWAYS responded instantly to her name even if starting to chase a 'roo and has never been in the least agressive otherwise. The dobes are my choice.

Dogs started their development alside man and have been left behind with modern advaces that make them mostly superfluous. They are not a kown quantity taken for granted as part of our lives any more. Too many have very little understanding of dogs as a species and have become intolerant and ignorant. I believe education in starting in Primary school as part of school cirriculum is needed. Educate kids from the start on dogs- How to safely behave around them,their needs,why breed characteristics are important to consider,care and welfare. Where to go for help with problems and training,why socialisation and responsibility is needed. get kids interacting with dogs,seeing their abilities and what they have still to offer us if done responsibly....Then take the kids to the shelter to see the other side of the coin! And rather than legislate against dogs,educate society and enforce the laws we have,which should be edquate. Many nasty attacks could be avoided if people had a better understanding and empathy with the species we grew with. We have all these movies about meeting and interacting with alien species and cant even manage the ones we evolved with! Its not complicated,its not hard,it benefits every one from the dogs to their owners and non-owners.It just needs people to start demading -No more legislation with 1st education.

Hi Tups, I know of one that may well suit you,if Sydney is not too far? but don't know how to pm! edited for spelling of Tups!?

Just as well I knew what you meant! Just a quick update...good days, bad nights. He is if anything even stiffer than a few days ago, but is still happy so far. During the daytime, when it's a bit warmer, he is a bit less stiff. In the evenings and at night, he seems to be getting progressively worse. My ex came over this evening and even though he saw Kuges trip over his own feet and nearly face plant it, ex said he still seems happy so it's not quite time yet. I can only presume he may be stiff but is not in too much pain or he wouldn't seem so happy. I guess if it becomes too painful, I'll see the signs, but I'm guessing I wasn't too far off after all. I'm thinking it's a matter of weeks at the most. I've thought for years that it couldn't be more than 6 months off, I never imagined the heart meds would buy 4 more years! he's had a couple of incidents that I thought might be it in the last couple of years - the IVS scared the crap out of me but he recovered...mostly (hence the occasional loss of balance and falling over) and he reacted badly to a bee sting over the christmas break and I thought his heart would give up (his first bee sting in his life had to be when he was old and vulnerable - up until then I'd just presumed he didn't react, but somehow he'd managed to avoid being stung almost his entire life, go figure!) In January he had a really flat day where he didn't move and didn't wag his tail and I was in tears thinking that was it but he bounced back the next day as if nothing had happened... Wheew! I'm glad you knew what I meant Glad I made you laugh anyway! You have likely tried it already,but just in case.... I have terrific and fast results for Lou with the green mussel stuff.

Hi there Horty! I was hoping this would happen!! So pleased for you! I guess its like a practice run tho',now you will be better prepared with the details when the time does come and we all want that to be a good ways off yet. I agree with your vets though,as long as he is aware,eating and happy,slow as is o.k! I've gone through the same many times now and they have had some realy bad days that would pass just from simple things like an upset tummy. Hope Kuges is feeling better again today and its just been one of those little things that makes the oldies feel "today is just a lot more work."

With so few dogs/owners left,they would be a rare and novel species. None could be taken out in public with out being in danger of peoples reaction to them causing more trouble again. Little kids either running away screaming or treating them like fluffy toys,adults grabbing their kids away,abuse and threats from people no longer able to see a companion,only a "dirty animal"in public. I think serious education as part of school ciriculum is the only way,and should be started asap.

What about "learnt dominance" or "relational dominance" or "learnt relational dominance" ? :p ETA: I have known a good number of dogs that I would not regard as dominant no matter which way you look at it, yet could be described with the words you have used above. Yeah,I left out the dominince bit:rofl:

Adaptive relational dominance?

Well I agree I have been misusing the word "dominance". A better description for what I've been calling a dominant dog might be a highly intelligent,decisive dog.An intitiator able to make quick judgments and act independently.Or some thing along those lines But thats a lot of words and I sure can't think of another to say all those things. Thats, about the only way around it. Dominance is often the way those qualities are expressed for results. Acts of Domince should not form the whole basis of the description.Its an act,not the dog. So it seems a new descriptive word is needed here. If enough people can ever agree we are describing the same thing.

Really? Do you have a reference for that? There was this fascinating doco on ABC a few months ago following a hyena clan led by a brutal female who would frequently and randomly attack the other clan members. There was something wrong with her. Aside from being a nutcase, she also appeared to be infertile. She was really hurting the group, but I think in the end they just got hungry and fed up and revolted. They didn't kill her or kick her out of the pack, just ganged up on her and drove her away from kills if I remember correctly. She stayed on the periphery. I honestly think they reacted mostly to being starved by her than being relentlessly bullied. Hyena social life can be harrowing. ***I did not read that in a scientific paper,but an article written by a bloke who adopted a wolf into his family in the 70s.He observed a wild wolf family pack to try to get a better understanding of pack dynamics and how a wolf could fit into his own family. In the group he observed there was one pup who was overly aggressive with its littermates,constantly and viciously attacking them. The male was seen to discipline this pup several times before killing it. I have heard similar stories from native americans and people in a position to observe,but nothing I can provide a direct reference to,sorry. My own bitch killed and devoured a pup at 3 days old.In the beginning it was treated as all others.I noticed at 2 days old it moved in a very frienzied manner when ever disturbed and examined it for any physical defects or abnormalities and could find nothing.Eating and defecating normaly,but mum grew more upset at its behaviour till I started to wonder should I remove it.I went back out to look again and mum had already disposed of it. The Hyena who displayed dominant only behaviour WAS removed from her influence within the pack,for one reason or or another. I question if this is significant to dogs, who do not appear to depend on living in groups to survive. *****IMHO it is significant if people are replacing other dogs as a pack,and I believe generaly dogs are a very social animal. Er... kinda? I have to admit I'm a bit confused. They are dominant but accept the leadership of another dog? As long as she's nice to them? And accept other dogs as long as they toe the line? But can't live in harmony with each other? I have problems with the idea of a dominant dog being one that believes in his right to things, for example. Because it doesn't really gel with the definition of dominance being actually getting a contested thing. I whole-heartedly believe that Erik was born believing the world is his oyster and he should have whatever he desires whenever he desires. Thing is, he doesn't always get what he desires. He is the smallest member of the household besides the rabbits, and sometimes no matter how much he wants something he just physically can't get it. To me, he is more outrageously optimistic than dominant. He tries things on just in case. He learns the quickest and easiest way to get what he wants by trying lots of different things. He talks back, he sometimes tries to be controlling, and he is very demanding despite none of it ever really getting him anywhere. He does things that are historically futile just to see if they are still futile. He is enterprising, clever, very aware of his surroundings, and very good at taking advantage of momentary lapses. He is highly motivated for rewards and he's very confident. I don't think that these qualities make him dominant, but they do set him up with advantages in social interactions so that he often wins them despite being small. The other little dog I mentioned before has similar qualities, although he is much lazier and more laid back than Erik, but takes stubborness to dizzying heights. He will keep at something for days before he will give in. I am thinking that just calling a dog dominant because they tend to get what they want is not enough. I am thinking that the reasons why they tend to get what they want are more important. And I think we are talking about a continuum. If we have a dog that has the attitude but not the size or strength to back it up, is it not dominant even if it always wins contests? If we have a dog that has the size and strength and the attitude but not the motivation to do much with it, is that a dominant dog? (*** I would say no***) To me there are no clear answers to those questions. **** Yeah,I guess I by that explanation, to define dominance I would have to say its NOT a personality trait so much as an act of forcing submission. My most dominant dogs are ones who will forcefully and aggressivly fight to maximise and hold their position in the pack,very decisivly and confidently.but they will accept leadership while it brings maximum benefits acheivable? So I guess I am realy describing potentialy successfull alpha behaviour **** I would like to hear more about your dogs and social harmony, lilli. I have to say your description of them physically throwing another dog off a desired resource shocked me. I can't imagine my dogs ever being that violent. My mother's Vallhund who I keep mentioning will force other dogs off food regardless of their size, but he would never just dive in with full contact. He doesn't need to. Just makes some noise and charges and the other dogs scatter, despite them all being bigger than him. If they don't move he bites them, but he doesn't throw them around or hurt them. He's mostly noise, but he is respected because the other dogs know he's not bluffing.

Corvus, An antisocial dominance no doubt exsists,but I would consider it more an abnormality that nature would cull. In wolf packs,wolf parents have been known to cull their own ofspring for just such tendencies and I have seen domestic dogs do the same,for abnormal behaviour. I don't think of dominance as rare,but relative to dominance of others the dog has contact with and isn't just brute force and agression.A whole lot of other factors are at work too.confidence being a major one and for lack of a better word,I will use Ego. If the dog is just out right aggressive to all and sundry it surely implies instability.Their survival and that of their pack members depends on them having some sense of when they are out classed. I have 2 bitches I see as very dominant.Both accept an older female as a leader.They were raised by the older dog and both these dominant types tried her dominance before they were physicaly ready to "Win".Both accepted her leader ship after that,but ONLY because she is a good leader who does not ever bully.She does not try to dominate,more mediates.To some degree,they accept her leadership on their own terms if that makes sense? She is not the dominant one,tho' still a leader. 1st sign of bullying and either of these girls would out the older dog from her position. The same 2 dominant bitches were raised apart and I keep them apart(luckily one is here only temporarily tho fairly long term now) left to their own devises,they would fight very seriously untill one or both were badly hurt. Both these dogs will accept strange dogs and can be quite friendly,but only as long as the new dog is no threat to the pack and accepts that these are the dominant ones socialy.Over stepping the boundaries in any way is not on. A pack instinct is part of a balanced whole. In your earlier thread on pack dynamics I believe these are the ones who step up in defense of the pack,and will eventualy lead a split in the pack when number are too great for to sustain pack integrity. Hope this makes sense!

I will be interested to see if lilli see it the same as I do here too,but IMO the dominance is a very social thing,the dominant is just supremely sure of his right to the his place. Gotta cut this short...Genny running out!