mita

Yes, to this. Good if there was a standard info handout that all rescues could share. My very first encounter with rescue, gave me a lesson in the issues re dogs coming straight from the pound. It was Cordelia who years back explained to me why she was well situated to take a tibbie straight from the pound. Because she said she was aware of the risks re disease, but was also well informed on how to minimise them.

And a 'Yes' to this comment, too. As well as the earlier comment about individual variations within a breed.

Great post.

Mrs D, I'm a tibbie owner, too. I agree with Erny that there's more involved than just the barking & it'd be good to have a session with a dog behaviorist. Maybe Jane Harper the one that was recommended would know of someone in your area? My 2 tibbie girls aren't problem barkers, but the tibbie next door, Lily, is. I think it's because all her barking is really a great dominating act. She has to do the big, 'I'm in charge here!' act. But over at our place, she seems to accept that our tibbie, Annie, who's very confident & not a problem barker, is her dog model. It's like as if Lily resigns from her 'gotta say I'm in charge!' job when she comes over here. So Lily changes behaviour when she comes to stay for the weekend or whenever & takes a different 'job' in the 'pack' of 3 dogs. Like at home, she goes ballistic about possums walking over the deck roof. Here, she just ignores them when they do the same. It's like as if she 'thinks' it's 'leading dog' Annie's job. And Annie doesn't give a damn! So there's no barking. Our other elderly tibbie girl has always been just a big sweetie, like as if someone shrunk a golden retriever. She's never been a barker. And both our tibbie girls have been trained in everyday situations to know that I'm in charge, not them. (I'm not saying get another dog , by the way!) We used to own working dogs, so when we got tibbies, I automatically did the in-home training things that show I'm in charge, not the dog. Like , our tibbies are taught to 'Sit' first, to get all the things they like. And that includes attention & pats. Any jumping up for attention, gets greeted with a turned back & ignore. 'Bottoms on the ground & quiet' is the rule here. Any kind of noise or getting over-excited, also gets the turned back. The penny soon drops for the dog... excitable, noisy, demanding, bossy behaviour doesn't get the things they want. Attention, food, treats, cuddles, leads on for a walk etc. But 'Bottoms on the ground & quiet!' does. They also learn they have to wait, while the humans go thro' gates & doors first. I take the tibs for a daily walk, keeping their leashes short so they're beside me, not in front. When I was training the tibs, I found it useful to have a light lead tucked into their collar, so I could quickly hold them on lead, to get them to 'Sit', like when going thro' a gate. But only when I was at home. I wouldn't want the lead to get caught on something & hang them. All of this is aimed at teaching a dog what behaviour you want of it....& that you are the leader who calls the shots. Dogs crave leadership & will otherwise have a go at taking over the 'job' themselves. In recent times, I've discovered the value of using a hissing sound to communicate behaviour that has to stop. The strange noise seems to stop the dog, in full flight, in their tracks....& makes them curious. They're calmer, then, & can be given a command, like 'Sit' or 'Come'. The biggest problem barker we had was a sheltie. Her nickname was the 'Mouth from the South!'. Every strategy had to be pulled out for her, including never letting her have the last word. :D

In line with the totally objective aims of this research. A Tibetan Spaniel puppy. Having first bath: http://www.puppyprimer.com/image-files/tib...-puppy-bath.jpg Tibbie puppies look like Gizmo the Gremlin. A pet transport person told someone picking up a Tibbie puppy at the airport, 'Here's your Gizmo!' http://img122.imageshack.us/i/gremlins0zf.jpg/sr=1

Spell it out. What sort of actions do you believe make 'almost a part-time job' to prove you are 'worthy' of a pup? What are these things you consider 'hard' and 'time consuming'? Then it'd be clear what you're labelling as 'elitist'.

When there are many registered breeders, of all kinds , and many puppy buyers, of all kinds...I wouldn't say that 'it's the potential puppy buyers' fault if purebreds are in decline'. Nor would I say 'it's the potential sellers' fault'. I'd suspect, if that is so, there'd be many reasons.

I'd believe that, W. If you breed & raise your own dogs with pride & care about their future...then you don't have to put up with less than reasonable behaviour.

Agree. And may this message continue to get to the pet-buying public.

I'm pleased to see some balance coming from a registered breeder. You're the kind of breeder I hoped to find via my way of approaching breeders. And I did. I've got a vested interest, because a breeder who puts finding a suitable home, at the top of her priorities, is a person likely to have pride & care in what she produces & nurtures. Especially when she's quite ready to say 'No' anywhere within the screening process. Frankly, I'm not going to waste my own time or anyone else's, until I find someone like this. 'Moving on' is a positive decision. It's this kind of breeder, I then recommend to good people who are looking for a puppy or a dog. If I've had positive dealings with the breeder, myself, I'm then prepared to be a reference for any such person I point in their direction.

Aw, megan, what a clean & clever puddy-cat.

Aren't they a beautiful pair! So good they're back together, thanks to some kind & persistent people.

It is not a criminal offence to avoid getting into a situation that puts you at risk, particularly when you did not cause the situation. I agree, OG. Interestingly, France has a 'Good Samaritan' law which requires citizens to render assistance, when there's no danger to themselves. But, even then, people aren't required to place themselves at risk.

I'm what's left over when you subtract your 'most people'. Representatives from 'everyone else' join my notion of the human family....when they're in great distress & need. A personal opinion, too, based on my particular code of ethics. I would not question that. You have your code of ethics, I have mine. We don't need to push our values on others, but accept that people can have different values. Your priority, if I understand it correctly, would be 'human family - other humans - dogs'. For me it would be 'human family and dogs - other humans'. What I found unacceptable in some of the other posts is declaring individual beliefs/codes of ethic as absolutes. My code of ethics is that we're all human 'family'. And that's specially so when vulnerable humans are in great distress....like the old man & the baby. Their little dog was important to them, so care gets extended to it, alongside them. Dogs have won a place alongside the human family. Any ethical dilemma was solved for J & mum & dogs....because other people, without dogs which could have escalated the situation, came immediately to provide that care. Ethics don't exist in a vacuum, they have to be applied to whatever is going on. Which is why I included problem solving, on the spot. It's a case of...Given one's ethical code...what CAN be done in this situation to help as much as possible.

I'm what's left over when you subtract your 'most people'. Representatives from 'everyone else' join my notion of the human family....when they're in great distress & need. A personal opinion, too, based on my particular code of ethics.

Another crazy dog lady who totally understands, here. You're right. The cause of the problem is all those dogs off-leash in public areas where they're supposed to be on-leash. That's a huge issue for owners of others dogs, whether their dogs have issues or not. I think that's a spot-on idea of taking it to the people who should be policing the by-laws.

The OP said that the situation unfolded very quickly.....with a lot of noise from the attacked small dog, closely followed by the cries of the baby. It was also said that the commotion brought people (without dogs) running to help. So immediate help for the elderly man, the baby & the small dog was at hand. So I couldn't see that J & mother's making any decision about who to save was all that significant for the safety of those 3. Jimmay & mother & their dogs could've been beamed up by Scottie, and the situation would've remained the same. Other people arrived quickly. The situation would've been different if there were no nearby people rushing to help. Then it would come down to making some rapid decision about what to do based on your own value system & problem-solving. As far as I'm concerned, an elderly man & a baby & their little dog....vulnerable, in great trouble...are not 'random strangers' to me. Their great distress makes them 'family' to me. As others have said, it's sheer speculation what we'd actually do in the same situation. We can all be armchair heroes. But I'd try to figure some way to help.

Something Cesar Milan said in his program made me think. He talked about what's going on with the dog's 'state', BEFORE the usual trained commands kick in. So I added 2 things to what I do with Annie, my tibbie....& they worked! First, giving the dog a tap on the part of the body that needs to respond. Late at night, I tell Annie to 'Come' as she has to go out to the toilet. It's the only time, she can just keep lying there, snug little fat creature, woken from sleep, in her bed. I finish up, picking her up & carrying her out. Never happens in any other situation. So I tried giving her a tap on her side (more a touch), just beside those back legs that need to hoist herself up. As I said 'Come!'. To my amazement, up she got & followed me out. Next night, I just touched her again....& up she came. Still amazed. Third night I walked in & she got up without my doing anything. Just figuring the context. Second, making a noise to 'break thro'' a dog's state of mind. Annie was lying in a room, when the cat brought the baby gate down with a heck of a crash. While puss scrambled underneath to get out, Annie went into an anxiety state....The ceiling's falling in on all of us!!!! With tail down, she headed for the steps to flee downstairs. Instead of going straight to 'Come!', I gave a hissing noise. Her state of mind changed instantly from anxiety with panic....to curiousity, as she looked at me & turned away from the steps. Back up went the upcurled tail. Her body language changed instantly to, Ok, mum, so what's on? Back to her usual confident tibbie attitude. Then I got down low & said 'Come!'. Panic gone, she came to me, with anxiety forgotten.

Because 'that kind of dog owner' might be looking in the wrong place for the level of technicality that interests them. The 'average professional trainer' covers the training needs of dogs across the average range. And is likely to have the basic knowledge of dog learning & behaviour, in order to do that. Those trainers or behaviorists who deal with dogs, for whom that is insufficient, are likely to have more in- depth technical knowledge. And be more involved with research data and how it's observed, collected and analysed. So that 'kind of dog owner' might find a lot in common with them. But, if that owner's dog's needs fall only in the average range, why would they be taking their dog there? Just my opinion, but that would seem like over-servicing.

Very well said. There's a sound theoretical base, too, for having a position like that. As I posted before, dog behaviour (& human behaviour, too) is complex. So one methodology, based on one theory, is not going to apply, alone, in every situation. Having a range of methods to draw on, makes sense. The critical thing is that the practitioner must be able to make a good case (rationale) for what method or combination of methods, are selected. And also for the rejection of specified methods.

The woman's tears notwithstanding, the incident should be reported to the police. 3 lives were endangered there....the baby, the elderly man & a small dog. Jimmay, Im glad you and your mum & your dogs were able to stay safe. You're right...you were in danger, too.

Some people in academia teach service providers. Depends, tho' on what the service is... and the level of complexity required to carry it out. So, it's a case of what a person needs to know to do what the service hopes to achieve. For basic training of dogs, given the dogs don't deviate far from what can be expected around the average range, it's necessary to have a good basic knowledge of dog learning & behaviour. And not necessarily an in-depth, wide-ranging knowledge of current research & the academic literature. Though that gradually 'trickles' down, because it gives the service provider more insight into what they're doing & maybe suggests some different strategies. But for marked behavioral problems, more dipping into the research/knowledge- base can be called for. That, to me, goes with a service provided by a dog behaviorist. Honestly, tho', in real life, it's a bit of a mixture. Some trainers have a basic knowledge which does fine for puppies/dogs for whom that is enough. Others also have a deeper range of references for what they do. And that can help with dogs who need something more than the basic. Also maybe clients will seek out a trainer (or behaviorist) that speaks more to the level they're familiar with, themselves. Like Corvus was wanting something more complex than the basic. Just my opinion, but I think the terms dog trainer & dog behaviorist should relate to slightly different practices. Bit like the difference between a counsellor & a psychologist. Or between a teacher & a specialist teacher. One digs more deeply into the technical details of a specified problem .

The Facebook wall of World Vets International Aid, has ongoing info & pics of their team's work in Japan. They're in the hard hit Sendai region working alongside a local shelter/rescue group. Lovely pic of a pretty grey puss that was found by a Japanese Army soldier who brought her into the shelter. World Vets also takes donations. http://www.facebook.com/WorldVets?sk=wall#...rldVets?sk=wall

Anecdotally, some of the breeders (of my breed of interest) have told me that when their females fight it tends to be more serious & can cause damage. When the adult females have come to me as pets, there have been some hissy fits at first. But in a home situation, they start to get the kind of training that covers humans being close by & making it clear they're in charge. So the 'hissiness' has disappeared. Then they've turned into the opposite. Like a pair of close 'sisters' (but unrelated).

I've got no problem with using touch, body language & noises. Dogs communicate with each other that way. So do people. And it covers a range on intentions. Of course, there's an extreme associated with violence and desire to cause pain. That's crossed off my list. The other end is associated with relating & a desire to focus attention. It's that 'other end' which interests me, when 'working with' my dogs. That's the only thing I've taken from watching Cesar Milan work with owners & their dogs. And I've added it on to all that I've learned about positive training methods like nothing in life is free....where good things follow desired behaviours. I've been pleasantly surprised with the results of applying some of those 'Cesar' strategies. Dog behaviour, like human behaviour, is complex. Which is why a number of approaches can be drawn on, as the situation requires. For practitioners dealing with humans, that's called an 'eclectic approach'.