mita

Just saying. For social peace, it doesn't matter whether a dog is big or small. What matters, according to the research.. is that a dog be raised being part of its human 'family' who care for, groom, walk and socialize it. Makes it less likely to be over the top aggressive to other dogs or to strange humans. And that's what matters when 2 dogs interface somewhere, according to the regulations. If in public, on leashes. Only off-leash, in designated areas.

She needs the therapy for empathy deficiency.

Be on the same side of the baby gate.... or whatever the barrier... as Odie?

Just the luck of the draw. I've never had to separate our shelties & tibbies. But I have had reason to block access due to other factors. I couldn't be without two sets of baby gates (bought from a second-hand baby goods store). Dogs are happy with these forming a barrier (whenever you need it), as they can sit on the other side and see thro' it as if they're still part of the action. So maybe Odie can have some 'peace time' behind a baby gate at certain scheduled times.

Thanks, skyefool, your experience with the Chow Chow matches my experience with a particularly thick-coated Tibbie from Scandinavia. Thanks, too, Ynjuro, for your opposing comment. Only in a specific case, have I elected to have one Tibbie clipped right back. But I understand I must then sustain it.... which is easy in this Qld sub-tropical climate. Like the Chow Chow, the little dog's behaviour shows how much more comfortable she is. Also, even with her undercoat stripped as best as possible, hunting for ticks in our hideous tick season, was a nightmare. The position is quite different for our other Tibbies whose under-coats are far less thick and manageable. And I sure can't speak for any other person's dog or breed. :)

Paralleling that is US research that looked at puppies from the same source-type as that British study. Puppy farming. The US study tracked dogs sold thro' pet stores, but sourced from such places. Much higher health and especially behavioral problems were noted in those that had been sourced from puppy farms. Such problems would make the dogs much higher risk for early death, either from natural causes or as a consequence of those behavioral problems. Reported in the journal of the American Veterinary Association. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201305/behavior-differences-in-dogs-pet-stores-versus-breeders

That's awful behaviour. He threatened you with violence... not only your dogs. Did you consider reporting it to the police? I know it's difficult when you don't know the person's identity. The girlfriend sure got a front row seat to how she'll get treated if he doesn't like something she says. So sorry you had to meet someone with such a disturbed personality as that bloke. And he'll go on to do the same to other people...

I found a lump that sounds like that one, on my tibbie Angel's side. Showed it to the vet who took a needle biopsy. Said some cells looked a bit 'iffy'. Angel was put under for a fuller investigation. I was worried sick waiting for the results. Result was, it was a small fatty lump. No problem at all.

I think you're right. Just as people were describing their experiences in the other thread. The real nightmare is the dogs that mean business when they attack ....so highly pumped with adrenaline that discomforts wouldn't register.

I read a dog trainer's tip after a US website that reported on a case where an owner struggled to save her golden retriever from an off-leash dog that'd gripped it by the leg. She suggested straight white vinegar: I usually recommend a small squirt gun or spray bottle filled with straight white vinegar. Vinegar will sting when it hits the mucus membranes (eyes & nose), but will not cause any permanent or long-term damage to the animals. Trouble is you'd have to have good aim in a stressful, chaotic situation. I'd think that something which let loose more of a spray into the air would be better. And that 'Spray Shield' seems to do that.

.... which is why, when I've assessed that a tibbie has good reason to be clipped right back, it's done with consistency. Not with the intention of ever returning the tibbie to totally full coat. Our excellent groomer pointed out that a clipping right back, on a double-coated dog, is highly likely to change the type of coat radically when it grows back, exactly as you say. A good reason not to undertake full clipping without very sound reasons... & then commitment to keeping it up. So our Annie gets at least a couple of full clips throughout our long, hot summer. Then it grows to about 1/4 full hot during our relatively mild winter.... Then spring rolls around & the sequence starts again. Definitely not something to be entered into lightly. And why our other Australian-bred tibbies are not clipped.

Where are the people with reactive dogs advocating that everyone else must lock their dogs up so they can take them for a walk? That's very close to a 'blame the victim' mentality. And that high velocity loose -dog on leashed- dog attack, is the fault of the leashed- dog's being 'reactive' & its owner for owning it. The incidents being recounted in this thread are not the 'doggy jousting' kind between dogs.... but flat-out high velocity attacks where the attacking dogs meant business. Speaking only for myself, my dogs attacked in such incidents were not of reactive temperaments. Out tibbies are the calmest creatures. Same for our shelties that were also the targets of such attacks. Calm, sensible dogs. These kind of attacks were not perpetrated by all-round reasonably fine dogs that just happened to get out & be loose for some reason. I've found a whole pile of such dogs.... we live near a strip shopping centre which is a magnet for dogs that slip their containment (nice smells). And I've got them off the streets to the safety of our front yard. Phone ID & Council rego on collars got them back to owners promptly. Most represented breed has been staffies... & they've been absolute dolls to handle. Next, there's been a couple of labradors. All have proven to come from homes that the research so clearly points to as raising dogs least likely to show high level aggression against strange people & other dogs. The dogs have been part of a family that includes them, grooms, walks & socializes them. Interestingly, fitting that bill, was the very nicest of all the dogs I've plucked from being lost on the footpath outside.... a female pitbull. What we're talking about on this thread are dogs from the opposite background.... those raised & mismanaged in such a way that they are more likely to develop behaviours where they'll attack other dogs.... with savagery.

My Annie from Sweden says, 'Thank you!' :) I can't generalize from one case, but a Brisbane tibbie boy, imported from Singapore, had a silky coat with no undercoat. He was purebred, registered with the Kennel Club there. Made me wonder if that's what breeders in that v. hot climate had catered for.

If anyone calls me a lazy dog owner because I get my thick-coated tibbie clipped back (like a shih tzu), I'll go into a Donald Duck rage. :) First, because our tibbies get slavish attention & the clipping is part of that attention. Second, it's been checked with both our excellent vet & a highly experienced groomer. It makes life far more comfortable in the hot summers for our thick-coated tibbie, Annie, who was bred in Sweden where the breed is popular in the cold northern European conditions. Life in sub-tropical Qld is a different matter. Annie is much, much cooler when clipped right back in summer... does a little dance of freedom when she emerges looking like a cross between a lamb & a small lion. Helps enormously, too, for flea & tick control. Our other tibbie is Australian born & bred, and doesn't have the same thick coat. So she doesn't get clipped. Not necessary. Same with the tibbie next door, whose coat is light & silky. All, by the way are ex-Aus Champions. For the relatively short Qld winter, Annie's coat has grown back. She's not being shown any more, & is a desexed pet. I can't speak for all long coated dogs. My getting only some of my tibbies done, doesn't meant I support a blank cheque for every long-haired dog. The cons mentioned in that article are very valid.

I was looking for some research about dog aggression, because of this thread. One study I found, concluded that people hitting their dogs was one of the factors that actually makes the dog aggressive. http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homePage/Group/AnimPersInst/Animal%20Personality%20PDFs/H/Hsu%20&%20Sun%202010.pdf The human was the one doing the wrong thing.... by allowing her dog to be off-leash in a public area. So she hits the dog???

Diva, I'm amazed how much your experiences are similar to mine. And also how it's affected you ... & how little the authorities can do about most of them.

Staffy, I'm only speculating, but 'victim factors' are involved in dogs' attacking (among other things). In my cases, the dogs were going full bore at my dogs. Not at me. Both our shelties & our tibbies were/are fluffy dogs. I read somewhere that the dogs with fluffy coats can be mistaken by other dogs, for having their hackles up in aggression. So I wonder if that's involved in why the attacking dogs waded right in. Does anyone know if there's any reliable information if dogs pick up certain cues about other dogs... which make them behave in a certain way? Not that we can test it :) but it'd be interesting if we could replay my situations.... but this time, I've got your big bull breed with me. Would the attacking dogs have then behaved differently????

All the dogs that've caused me problems have come like a rocket.... didn't falter (two from behind & one from the side). They charged at top speed. In three cases, there was no time to step in front... closest I got for one, was to put my arm in front of our sheltie (got bitten). Only once, with a German Shepherd thundering across a park at us, with high speed, did I have the luxury of time to step in front on my shelties & yell 'No....!' Dog didn't miss a beat. Fortunately, the owner on the other side of the park (where dogs had to be on leashes) heard me... & he hollered at his dog, which stopped metres from us. I'm not afraid of dogs of whatever their size..... but that day with the 2 shelties, I thought we'd had it.

Another lovely pic of Nutmeg.... living more of the good life. :)

I'm with you on that. Nuffnuff sounds more charitable than thoughtless idiot. :) Don't want to sound hopeless. But many of the problems I've had walking the dogs occurred in places I'd sussed out to be safer than the walking tracks thro' the parks. Like, in a quiet suburban street with high-fenced houses... someone left a gate wide open & out came thundering a cattle dog (bit me trying to get the sheltie). In similar street, people were putting a dog into a car & it broke free and thundered into me & the shelties. Those people were so distressed at the harm their dog had done. In the quiet shopping centre, another cattle dog came thundering across the street.... his owner had his lead over her arm. Dog circled & the shelties' leads went around my legs pulling me over. Dog ignored owner's calls. Two blokes in a passing truck came to the rescue. Then there was a quiet reserve tucked away behind a local retirement village. Went there nearly at dawn. Only to see a bloke in a car on the far side.... open the door & let run free two big dogs, then closed the door. Dogs thundered straight across at me.... with 3 small tibbles. We were close enough to get back in the car. Amazingly, as I've said, safest place has turned out to be events with hundreds of dogs (on leads) & owners in attendance. Have always been to Million Paws Walks & BCC Canine Capers... & there's never been a problem. Maybe the nuffnuffs don't attend. :) One time...I saw 2 border collies light into each other, but owners quickly sorted.

I don't walk our tibbies any more. Best we can do is a quick whirl around the shopping centre next to us. But no walking tracks or general suburban streets. I'm not afraid of dogs. But our shelties... then later our tibbies.... became a magnet for dogs being walked not on leads. And we had some truly horrible situations. In one, I got bitten when I put my arm in front of my sheltie as a cattle dog came thundering out of an open gate. In fairness to the cattle dog, it actually looked a bit surprised itself that it'd bitten a human.... it was going for the sheltie. Shame, because we also met some wonderful dog owners on those walks. My well socialised tibbies like meeting strangers.... & we would often gently socialise dogs that were similarly fine with others. My girls were specially good with nice, big dogs where the owners found it difficult to get willing owners of small dogs to let them be near (all on leash). It's telling that our tibbies still go to community dog events.... where people have to keep their dogs on leads. Like Million Paws Walk socialising went brilliantly. We've always had only positive experiences at events like that.

Another spot on post. Aphra, you're hitting some very right buttons! In each situation, the factors which lead to serious dog bites/attacks, can be seen.... often sticking out a mile. Shows how remediable many of these situations would've been, if humans had stepped up to the basics of what prevents dog bites/attacks. No wonder the research from the University of Cordoba concluded that the human contribution, all along the line of dog raising. management & control, pipped breed factors as the stand-out. No.... that's not saying that type of dog is not relevant.. but it's what humans do with dogs.

Yes, to both. Just adding that our dogs are kept behind side gates, which have an obvious tie on them. I've noticed most callers get the hint about that... &, if they come to the side gates, they'll stand there & call out, whether they can see the dogs or not.

He doesn't remotely look like the dog in the pound now. Barney's pic with his new owner is a Poster Pic for a happy adoption. Just beautiful. Doesn't this case show, how the pound environment skews 'temperament' testing for dogs like Barney. Once out of the environmental stress & with a healthy dose of new learning .... a totally different dog steps up. Well done, Aphra, & all who helped Barney to graduate with honours to a new home.

Vivien, I'd also say how lucky Molly is to have found a home with you & Warren. Bless all the folk who set her on the road to you. Pics would always be welcome. :)