Rusky

my dog has a perfect recall, she was trained with positive reinforcement training. My mate has a dog who is older and never titled as he runs on recall. We have turned around his training completely, all facets to positive reinforcement, not individual excercise but a way of life. It is early days but now off lead he always returns even with increased distraction. Distraction is being built up slowly and it wasn't as easy as the book says I usually carry food with me but physical and verbal praise will do just as well, maybe it is the element of expectation of food. I don't know anyone personally who trials using aversives these days. I have to say that the dogs that run are continually being told by the judges to use positive training. Positive training I don't believe is something you can mix with aversives, consistancy and timing is the key. If you are happy with your methods that's ok but your statement about reliable recall using positive training is wrong. I think maybe the people you are watching are learning to use positives, they may be doing a bit of mixing or maybe the dog was trained with aversives originally. If your statement were true we wouldn't have any titles here in WA. The 'seniors' like to train during beginners sessions to proof the dog with puppy and juvenile dog distraction. A lot do herding now at country trials, maybe they herd the rabbits? I will have to ask :D The WA police and customs use positive training. The search and rescue people I know use positives too. I have never been at one of their training sessions though, just the ones I know don't use aversives so I imagine recall is the same. I will find out though.

I think that is a fantastic idea, kids do listen to other people, make sure you back off and let her do it alone, don't stand near. watch from a distance. Ask the club which trainer would be best for a child, some don't take kids as handlers and could make the situation worse. good luck.

sorry I just read the thread you are speaking of. We have gun clubs for retrieve and specific breed clubs also. I had a quick look for NSW. It doesn't look so busy, a few clubs but not so many trials maybe. Here are our WA trial results. All breeds dog clubs such as ours teach retrieve from puppy, to all breeds. It is an excercise to be completed for first graduation at club level. Here is the WA link, just hit the other states to see what ia happening there. The gun club is very active here which has all breeds but as you can see there are breed clubs. Sorry I thought you were speaking of agility and obedience. retrieve WA

we are in WA but the club has in both obedience and agility newbies to very high level trialists. There is a pre agility class and then the trialists go on another couple of different nights. there are trainers for each level of experience. Recently there is an agility club of WA which is a lot of the same people doing just agility training at a high level. The obedience people are trained on one night but independant working is encouraged on the other nights even if it is an agility night. If they do need any assistance for calling rounds or stays there is always either a trainer or another handler there to help. A few of the trialists are trainers too. We are a large club for WA. Many handlers belong to a few different clubs. The breed specific clubs tend to be for obedience, the equipment is the problem, not many clubs have full sets or even people to set it up. On agility jumping night our club puts up 3 rings or sometimes 4, one is jumping and can be adapted for each level of expertise and speed. Many other clubs use our gear for trials. Are you thinking of starting your own club? the gear is so expensive, so is the maintenance.

here is a link to show you all collars available and a bit about their use. There are independant articles regarding each collar which is not a standard flat collar by doing a google. training collars

Of course it is also Desi and Janice on the figure of 8. I looked and thought, gee I recognise that dog, then saw the stewards. It was Western classic this year... beautiful dog.

that looks like UD Myszka? do you know where the video was taken?

you are going beautifully but don't accommodate her position again. Check her position and correct it then praise otherwise it is a hard habit to break, also make sure you steady your own position before recall. Take a few more seconds and lean back slightly so your slightly open legs are steady. I think you have a beautiful boxer and you should be very proud of your achievements with her. sorry the position accommodation has already been mentioned. I should read replies first.

I am in Perth, I too am delusional, you get it from your dogs Now I will be singing that ruddy song all day

Myska my favourite topic every second you are with your dog is a training opportunity, from the second you bring your fluffball home ;) edited to say Haven you and I agree again ! would love to meet you sometime.

The practical dog listener. PM on the way too.

poor traumatised wee soul, ruddy people who bully and punish a poor dog just because he was talking to the dog next door Please get Jan Fennels book and ask your family to follow it. I also agree that a pair of fresh eyes may help but after they follow the book. They need to start today. There isn't anything new or anything we all didn't already know but it is the way it is put together and the wonderful explanations that will help them and their lovely dog. Step by step instructions for them to have a lovely caring, calm ,loyal dog.

I know, but why? well here is one good reason Dog lead to be banned after girl blinded By 7News A brand of dog lead is to be banned after a girl was blinded in one eye as she walked her pet. Louise Hiatt, aged 10, from Caravonica, near Cairns, was walking her dachshund dog on a Woofaz retractable lead when its clasp snapped. The lead flew back and the metal hook on its end hit her in the left eye. She lost her iris and lens, and despite being rushed to the Queensland Eye Centre in Brisbane for surgery after the accident in January, doctors were unable to save her sight. ADVERTISEMENT Louise's parents contacted consumer association CHOICE, which carried out a series of independent tests on the leads, which are sold across Australia. Experts found the leads, which failed strength tests, were unsafe and dangerous. Following calls from the watchdog, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is to ban Woofaz dog leads. "I'd hate this to happen to someone else," Louise's mother, Michelle Hiatt said. "It's not like a cut that will leave her with a scar on her leg - she has no sight in that eye." CHOICE chief executive Peter Kell said: "It is pleasing to see the government responding quickly so that this harmful product will not be sold to consumers in the future." no no no

no we dont, and I will not be encouraging to implement one en masse. It is very important for handlers to learn and understand body language, if 2 dogs are comfortable with each other and play bow I don't see why you wouldn't introduce one on one socialising. People often make friends at dog club and go for social walks together, this is a way you can expain and demonstrate social etiqette for canines. We also have elbow passes of dogs and handlers, I mean handlers elbows/shoulders pass so the dog has 2 people between him and the other dog, again for comfortable dogs and handlers. Reactive dogs don't get in cooee of another dog. Puppies will be puppies and on a halti will play bow, it is perfectly natural and to be encouraged In any case haltis are not fitted till class starts.

so do I

Also Myska, if you have play time at your club make sure the handlers have a flat collar for socialising. Ban all retactable leads from your club, make sure you have a few (nice leads) for purchase and or loan and explain why. Feel the halti, make sure it is a soft material, someone came to our club with a really harsh cheap nylon one, I rubbed it up and down their arms a few times to show how cheap and nasty it was. I do that with leads too. I often combine an old style halti with a rope choker. I attach the halti D ring to the rope ring and clip the lead through both so that if the halti does give way on a walk because it wasn't clipped correctly or has been abused or chewed there is a safety net. I was really happy when black dog made a similar combination but not everyone will pay that price and it has worked for me for years as a suitable alternative to a black dog. Leopuppy great explanation. oooo more editing I don't like gentle leaders I really do worry about head pulls with a gentle leader, I personally feel there is not enough support.

the owner leaving the dog is not my understanding of punishment also wrong behaviour for whom? If a dog is fearful it is a learned response to a situation. When a dog is afraid and cornered it may bite, if it can run it will run. Fight or flight for a fearful situation, if there is nothing to fear because the dog is ignored there will not be a response in a fearful dog. A dog needs to feel safe and secure combined with trust of their leader. Witholding treats for example when training whilst shaping is not my understanding of punishment. Giving a dog a safe place to go, to cave like a crate and then leaving is not punishment. I know that a year or so ago there was an extensive thread about positive and negative punishment. A few of my personal examples of punishment are slapping kicking alpha rolls scruff shakes throwing outside neck jerks etc. Rewarding desirable behaviour and shaping desirable behaviour provides exact information. What part of the behaviour are you punishing/ rewarding. Stranger comes in room, dog fearful, gets treat, still fearful but likes treats and can gobble the treat with one eye on the stranger. Dog works out that strangers mean treats but still afraid of stranger as you are actually reinforcing the fear. Stranger comes in room, you both ignore dog which has hidden under the table barking, you don't look at or speak to the dog. Dog thinks 'hmmm waste of time this, no one is bothering me, I will lie down now' Lies down quietly for a few seconds owner says 'good boy' It may be that the dog feels that his fearful behaviour is rewarded. Most definitely timing is critical but when the dog is relaxed and comfortable not when he is hyped and distressed or the treat is associated with the hype and distress, I would reward for calmness and acceptance, usually not with treats but as I said before verbal praise. treats work well for shaping, many dogs depending on personality will not actually take food when they are hyped. Depends on the personality.

It would depend on the level of fear, if the dog were very fearful then ignoring the dog completely by both the stranger and the owner give the dog nothing to fear as nothing is expected so I would do neither initially. If the dog then approaches the stranger with body language suggesting timidity and actually sniffs or sits next to the stranger then I would reward with verbal praise. Also I am assuming the dog is known well to the owner and that the scene is engineered by inviting a stranger to your home. A wild dog would not have a fuss made of it unless it were an important member. yes praise and petting do actually reinforce fearful behaviour. punishment should never figure at all. I have no idea why people punish dogs and have yet to read, hear or see anything which will make me think to the contrary. I don't believe dogs think as we do, they react because they are afraid and their fear has been reinforced sorry I don't understand the question are you meaning police, army rescue or similar? I doubt these dogs are fearful, they generally are most affable and confident when not working. I thought if the dog were fearful it would not even be considered for such work. I am sure a mixture of both classical and operant conditioning is used by all dog trainers and handlers, intentionally or otherwise. My dog drools when I move towards the food bin at feed time but she doesn't approach.

If you have a look at the link from my previous post on this thread... advertise away your dogs origins, if you are refused by an affiliated club inform canine they will be sorted PDQ. It won't happen though. All affiliated clubs who provide obedience training have no prejudice.

well I guess if everyone sticks to that it will be fine and maybe poodlefan would like to accompany me to a training session where the halti is certainly not used as a 'perfect for all dogs collar' but very useful for some dogs and when used correctly. I can take you to some clicker classes too where the dog doesn't run in fear. Needs to cut both ways and no one needs to be ridiculed or undermined. yep

I don't like choke chains so I would go to any lengths to prove their ability to cause trauma. I have spoken to many vets and unless you have a dog which is subject to tracheal collapse they are safe to use. Even with a dog which may have tracheal problems like a pug or baby toy dog according to the people I spoke to it is unlikely even then to cause trauma or collapse of the trachea. The prong collar has an even pressure around the neck so apparently even less likely to cause problems than a chain on the trachea. The anatomy of the dog makes collapsed oesophagus from choke or prong extremely unlikely. So I disagree with the friend of the OP that her dog had a collapsed oesophagus due to the prong. It may have had a collapsed oesophagus but the owner did not cause it directly with her collar. I don't think you can use them in Victoria.

here is WA stance all WA all breeds affiliated clubs train all breeds and mixes CAWA scroll to govt and law Insurance covers all

Then the trainers aren't worth their salt Fools Good luck finding a nice club to join, or move over here to WA, all breeds means all breeds, no prejudice at our club.

I have just looked at your profile and OMG your dogs are lovely, but you don't need me to tell you that. Now this is a really long shot but does Michael have a kong? years ago an old chap said to me 'dog can't bark with his gob full' he used to make stuff to keep his dogs busy, all sorts of wonderful things, they would still bark when people passed but then ran back to their plaything. I know its a long shot but still thinking

what happens when he is inside? does he still bark then?