Mystiqview

I know it often comes up in health and even here on the general forum. This was posted up on my Facebook feed and thought it was also good to share here. There are many other groomers on here and many of us with coated breeds who constantly tell owners to not shave in summer. Well here is more information on why shaving is bad. http://ekcgrooming.com/2014/02/23/8-reasons-why-not-to-shave-your-dog/

Well I has a "lovely" talk to Dogs Qld today. It would seem they think that ALL breeders abuse the Limit Register and use it solely to stop people breeding. They want to open it up to everyone. They don't care if that includes those who refuse to health test, breed to the fad or anything else. They just want more people breeding. They want to go back to the good old days where the limit register first came out for "blue eyes" or other faults. Maybe they think allowing everyone and anyone to breed cannot be worse than allowing BYB to breed with pedigree dogs "unregistered"?? Sorry I disagree there - Pedigree breeders are supposed to set the benchmark. I had an email from someone yesterday wanting to know who to go to for an ethical BC breeder after having a bad experience with someone else. I will protect their name and ID, so please don't ask who. They emailed 16 Pedigree BC breeders looking for a new pup. Of those 16 breeders they emailed - only TWO hip/elbow scored and completely DNA health tested their dogs. The others saw it as "stressful" on the animals. Those 14 other breeders - how are they helping the breed as a whole if they cannot even do the basics for the dogs they have currently. Karen - what used to be before they changed the standard back in then and what we have now is totally different and what used to be is totally irrelevant now. How many times have the wider community tried to have the standard changed only to have it blocked or deemed not admissible by the ANKC? The breed standard lists the recognised colours and in doing so disregards the others. It does not matter that they are all there or even accepted in other countries. In those good old days, even when I started in the breed only 12 years ago, most people who wanted to get into breeding did not have an ulterior motive of making a quick buck. They were much more trust worthy to at least TRY to do the right thing - even if they started out with not something spectacular or made a few mistakes when first starting out. From my talk with Dogs Qld this afternoon - they don't even care or "get involved" in what is acceptable in other states and complain they are constantly having problems with people who move to QLD from other states and now have to follow a different set of rules. I asked about the so called National Guideline to which their response was "It is only a guideline - we don't have to follow it". Placing pet puppies on Limit Register who naturally get desexed by their owners during the course of the time is no problem. It would not matter on the whole if they were on the Main Register in those genuine situations - the pup would be desexed by 12 months and still no benefit or contribution to the breed at large. At least by placing a pup on the LR - it can always be upgraded. The Limit Register is not a problem in itself - if people don't want to show, they don't want to show. Those who want to breed for money will always be there while they can do exactly that. Breed so they can make money. They don't care about structure - only that crucial bottom line.

JessicaM I know where you are coming from. However as Angeluca has highlighted above, my breed is one that is gripped by a colour fad and I this get rich quick mentality of breeding puppies not for show ring quality but to gain money of the pet market. Even the top show homes, a breeder may run on one or two pups of quality. The rest make it to the pet market. Even for show dogs, they need to have excellent temperaments - a prime reason why people want dogs in general as pets. I have shown, competed in obedience and herding. I choose not to know. I do not breed often and I prefer to sell my dogs as pets than as show dogs. That way you don't have an owner saying the ears have not come up right, or it's not winning therefore you sold me a dud or whatever such excuse is possible. However I still try to stick to the breed standard. I am selective of where my dogs go and do everything in my power to respect the wishes of stud dog owners, do the right thing by the breed and just as important do the right thing by the dog! My lines carry three of the fad colours. I do not advertise this fact, nor have I set out to produce two of them, one of which is unrecognised in our standard. It has happened to me twice as I repeated the mating. The first time my pick bitch was an unrecognised colour - limit register and desex. The second time the colour appeared, desexed and limit register. Things like unrecognised colours do crop up. It is one thing to be responsible and do the right thing and another completely to go out of your way to produce them so you can get more money for it. The last time I mated that bitch, I chose a stud KNOWN for not carrying colour, as I knew the dam would still throw one copy of that gene. He was a top quality dog. The condition was anything I did not keep went on LR. If not for the LR, I may not have access to this dog. If I did not care where the puppies went, and sold them into the colour homes, I would never had any chance of using the dog. As a small kennel, these are the things you have to be very mindful of if you want to have any remote chance of using quality dogs. Do the wrong thing and doors will close and it is then very hard to get them reopened. I have no issue with helping new breeders. The problem is that many of the new ones coming into my breed, seem only to be interested in what they can gain from breeding colour border collies. The more colours the better. They are breeding red to merle which is dangerous if any resulting pups are red. To be safe, you have to assume the red pup Is also merle and never breed it back to a merle or a other red dog where one parent is merle. This could be a merle to merle mating. It has happened because the breeder was not aware, did not care or just did not understand genetics. There is more to healthy happy pets than just basic DNA health and conformation and to the quality and longevity of breeds where fads exist. If a person is breeding for sporting, they especially have to ensure they have excellent conformation as those dogs will be adding extra pressures associated with the sport. In my opinion, conformation is just as if not more important for sporting dogs than show dogs. The physical requirement for agility is far greater than a show dog due to the jumping, turning etc. This is supported by people such as Pat Hastings and other prominent breed and vet figures. It is fine to breed pets. But you should still be aiming for quality pets, not just average pets.

Angeluca, Write into dogs qld. I certainly did as soon as I read it with the points I have brought up here. Unfortunately dog world sat on my desk for a week or two before I even got around to opening it. This is not something that should only be decided at a Dogs Qld board level. Members should have a say and be given the opportunity to object and put forward their points - both good and bad. Vets should not be the governing body to decide what should be on main register or not. They do not know our breed standards. They also do not know all the breed specific health testing and/or issues. I would rather see them promoting and enforcing compulsory breed health testing across all breeds.

I had it told to me by a Dogs Qld staff member that another popular breed sells most of their pups on MR. So why don't we? I have heard the complaints from high producing volume breeders and colour breeders that " they cannot access top dogs". We all have those breeders in our breed whom the majority consider below satisfactory or maybe even unethical. We all know which ones they are within our breeds. There is a good reason why people don't want their dogs ending up there. And Jed, I am in fully agreement with you on the research of the breeder on potential buyers. Good screening is essential. However even with the best screening, and all the tools available now. We can still be caught out. The dealers and agents are getting smarter too. I have heard where others have been caught out to find their dog or a dog sired by their stud has been exported. I have been duped once by a young 20 year old male. I did all the right things. I inspected the property, asked all the questions etc. How was I to know that after he passed the cute puppy period, he was to be left in the back yard tied to the clothesline? Fed on scraps and given no basic manners or obedience training. I eventually got this dog back at 12 months of age, after going through four other homes in as many weeks unbeknown to me, he was in such a mess, physically, health and mentally that I had to make the hard decision to put him to sleep. I was there at his birth. I was there at his death. Not something any breeder wants to see of one of their puppies. Better he take his last breath with me, than on an unknown steel slab in a pound. I have heard it said from many breeders of the popular breeders that many of the newbies are only interested in breeding especially catering to breed fads. Not interested in showing or trialling. In my breed there ar so many dogs who don not comply with the breed standard based in colour. In health terms they would qualify to be on the MR. Nearly five years ago, my pick bitch was ian incorrect colour so I had no choice to register her on the LR and have her desexed. Because of her colour, she could never have been shown. If I bred her today, I would do the same again as that is the breed standard. A vet would clear her as healthy. So do we need to take the breed standard along to the vet and say, this dog needs to be registered as LR because of the colour? And do we need to take a copy of the breed standard and even the extended standard for when we get our vet certificate? Dogs qld answer to this: " Register it to the closest colour" so we are having all these unrecognised colours to our breed standard being registered incorrectly on the main register so they can be bred with. Queensland also has a high percentage of breeders and new breeding coming in breeding for colour as they can get up to $800 more per puppy compared to the standard black and white. So with the above, for those breeding against the standard, would a vet support the limit register for all those colour breed pups because while they may be vet healthy they do not conform to the standard? (Because according to our standard, they should be LR anyway). Dogs qld need to encourage better and more responsible breeding, not just in my breed, but all the other fad breeds. However it would seem they want more breeders and more memberships without considering the whole. There has to be a range of reasons why memberships and entries are falling. I don't think it is just because of the LR. we have so many more new breeders coming into my bred alone, so litter registrations is up, however how many are still not going on to even sporting fields? These dogs may not make good show dogs, but still should do well in the increased options for sporting pursuits, which does not seem to be happening. It has only been in the last 10 years or less that QLD introduced the associate register for non pedigree dogs. NSW and other states had it for much longer. If numbers are increasing here, that could indicate why they want to push more registered breeding as these dogs come from BYB or rescue.

I realise that the LR or the clause "not to be bred" will only stop the registered breeders from breeding registered litters. It won't stop the BYB. D'oh I have been around long enough to know that. This is not about whether we should early desex or not. Hence my original comment "Take aside the early desexing argument. It really should be up to the breeder if they want to early desex or not - and that is not the point here" As you know, in QLD we can register pups straight into the new owner's names (Whereas other states have to register it to themselves and then execute a transfer to the new owner) - the tick on the transfer on the back of the pedigree is really only good if we are disposing of a dog after the initial registration and then send in the transfer application ourselves to ensure it gets to Canine. I know I have heard the complaint from some kennels in my breed that they cannot get access to the the quality dogs. Maybe there is a reason those breeders don't want their lines ending up in such kennels? I have heard the same from new breeders, however many now who are starting out seem to be concentration on colour rather than quality to start with and they want it all now without putting in the effort. NSW on their litter Registration form allows differing reasons for the Limit Register: I have just downloaded the "current" litter registration form from Dogs Queensland website. The only options when registering a litter is to circle "Main Register" or "Limit Register" with the notes that a LR must be accompanied by the applicable form (No Where on either form does it give the reasons/definition for Limit Register) other than below. If Dogs Queensland have their way and have their proposal passed at a board meeting then dogs who still fall "correct" as per the breed standard will not be able to be placed onto the Limit Register unless accompanied by a vet certificate/letter. We all have kennels in our breeds that we don't want our dogs or lines ending up into for various reasons (spite aside). The ones who win there is Dogs Queensland in the hope that more dogs on Main Register will be bred by registered breeders, thus increasing their coffers in associated fees. I know of one breeder who has complained they now have to pay GST as they earn over $70K in puppy sales a year. Average size litter is 4-8 with some bitches producing up to 12-15 pups/litter, multiply that by 2 or so litters per month at between $800 - $1200 / puppy on average. If this rule came in, then yes, I would be looking at early desexing and I am sure many others would too to prevent our dogs from ending up in those kennels. However this move also plays into the hand of the BYB's who were behind some of the proposed radical changes to Legislation prior to finally adopting the Animal Management Act 2008 - Rescue groups and other organisations were pushing for ALL puppies and kittens to be desexed prior to sale, a move that would have also decimated the conformation ring. Dogs Qld fought that one and we now have the choice to either early desex or keep entire. It really should be our decision as breeders to determine what is suitable to be bred from (as in ANKC Registered breeding) and what is not. If most of us then go down the track of early desexing - then where will Dogs QLD be? Neuter show classes are few and far between. You still cannot breed from the animal to keep the gene pool open. So numbers still won't increase. Will they then try to stop us from early desexing as well? Maybe Dogs Queensland should further investigate WHY numbers are REALLY down at shows across the state and also in other states. I am sure it is not solely to do with the increased number of puppies sold on the Limited Register - especially if the main purpose the pup was sold in the first place is a family pet that will in time be desexed.

Last I checked. We still don't have a not for breeding tick box. And yes, I thought we were supposed to have a National Standard. But dogs qld has its head so squarely up its backside it's not funny any more. They support the puppy farmers by allowing certain members prolific breed against the breed standard. They won't do anything about it as its revenue to them.

Dogs Queensland in the February issue of Dog World under "President's Message" has printed a bit there that they are going to discuss at a "Board Level" changing the conditions of the Limited Register. Many of us place our pups on the LR to stop unwarranted registered breeding to occur with our lines. In QLD we do not have a "Not for Breeding" box or form unlike many other states. So we place pups on the LR to prevent this. Not always because they have a true breed fault. Take aside the early desexing argument. It really should be up to the breeder if they want to early desex or not - and that is not the point here. Although if this is adopted - many more breeders will be forced to early desexing to stop the rogue breeders of their breed from gaining access to their lines. (This also plays into the hand that some of the welfare groups wanted us to do back in before the Animal Management Act 2008 came into force - all pups are desexed prior to sale. Please - QLD members - write in to Dogs Queensland and voice your concern and objection to Dogs Queensland taking away a breeders right on what should or not be bred. I certainly do not want the puppy farmers or colour breeders getting hold of my dogs or lines as a result of such a move. We at least need a "not for breeding" option if we are now to place most of our stock on Main Register.

I don't see any problems with judges "congratulating" others for their wins. As long as it is left at that and they are consistent and fair across the board. If a judge says something like above " you should have won" etc, then it could be construed as a conflict of interest. Let's face it, we are all friends with at least one judge. So there is always the possibility of a judge having a perceived conflict of interest. As long as the judging is always fair and transparent, then what's the problem of them commenting?

All the cheap ones are south side. ???? But thank you for the info. My local vet here charges $110 for C5

There area few other good ones on there as well

People could say the same thing about so many other topics in "General Dog Discussion". There are so many other topics that keep getting rehashed and re-asked rather than doing a search to see if there has been something already on it. Then there is the "OMG a dog bit someone" threads or the BYB threads. If it doesn't interest you - you don't have to open it.

Great Advice. I tell puppy buyers as well to go and see the breeder and meet their dogs. Or even if the litter is sold already, also ask to see mum (and dad if possible) and pups. This way you can view the interaction between mum/pups and breeder and see if that is what they want. Web pages may look big and flash, and sadly the real thing can be sorely missing the gloss. It also takes away the pressure you may have to put a deposit down now for a puppy - even if it does not suit your situation. And some people (me included) are useless at filling out forms. I prefer to talk to someone than hand them a form of predetermined questions - especially if there is only multiple choice involved. It allows the breeder to assess how you interact with their dogs. Ultimately, your puppy buyers and you need to feel comfortable with each other as Alpha bet has said - if there are issues down the track. If there are some things that are not right, don't go through with it. I say this same thing to puppy buyers. They need to feel comfortable with the breeder as well.

I know Zoff well :) I still have two bottles here. Last time I did buy those and that was a few years ago now.. it was hard to track down.

I voted that I approve the bitch. If the bitch has the same "faults" as my dog, I would certainly advise the bitch owner of this and tell them the risks if they really wanted to use my dog. She MUST be health tested. Other things- that the owner of the bitch can be trusted more than I know them personally and they are willing to accept the terms. I have it told to me, stud dog owners have no right to dictate to bitch owners what registration they can register the puppies on. If they feel that a dog is good enough to be on main register, then it should be regardless of stud dog owners wishes. I know of a number of instances where such a thing has happened, and there have been pups on main register sold, then resold to less than ethical breeders and/or puppy farms. Hard thing to police and also enforce. I would certainly expect the bitch owner to abide by any reasonable conditions such as worming, bringing bitch to stud and of course payment of stud fee in a timely manner. I have been lucky when I have used dogs I have been able to pay the stud fee once pups are born. I know you are paying for a service rather than live puppies and in horses that is exactly what you do pay for. Although I don't feel comfortable in taking money when there is no puppies at the end. I will take an upfront handling fee from the overall stud fee for my time boarding the bitch and looking after her whilst in my care. As long as the bitch owner is ethical in their efforts - they may be new to the breed but can still have a better set of morals than someone who has been in it for ages. In ethical, I mean health testing their dogs, trying to follow the breed standard - especially in my breed pertaining to conformation and colour: not pumping out large volumes of puppies (again generally in a rainbow of non standard colours) and being responsible on where they sell their puppies. Again - not to the same almost near factories churning out coloured pups for the colour market just to make a quid. It is ok to have a colour preference, and as all the colours are there naturally and can appear, does not automatically mean then disregarding the breed standard and going out of your way to produce the colours to charge double the price and registering them incorrectly as a correct colour so you can then sell on main registration. Looking through some of their webpages, there is an increase in black and white (and coloured) border collies with incomplete nose pigment. They should be solid. Even merles, while it is acceptable to not have solid pigment - should have solid pigment if used for breeding. The bitch owner does not necessarily need to have a titled bitch, although that is always a bonus - there are plenty of good dogs out there without titles, even in big show kennels. A title just means someone has put in the time and effort with that dog. DNA Health testing in my breed is really important: The bitch has done the necessary health tests pertaining to my breed (although none are compulsory). We have our own genetic problems and it is responsible and ethical breeding to ensure these are done prior to mating. I am happy to allow my dog to go over their bitch. My breed has been increasing in mass volume producers and colour only breeders (a regular look on the DOL puppy listings you can easily see this is happening), that is where I will draw the line. My answer is no, no and no. My dog carries three of the desired colours (Tri, red and sable) and there is no way I am going to allow them to get into the hands of these breeders so they can then breed it to any old dog just to get the desired colour and a decent pedigree.

I had to return one bitch back to her owners when the pups were just three weeks. They were causing SUCH a fuss and making my life a living hell. I would not normally do this as it caused all sorts of new issues with the pups. I had to find a surrogate mother for a week during weening. Thankfully there were only two pups in that litter. Depending on bitch/pups, I could let them go back from 6 weeks as by this stage my bitches have generally fully weaned the pups and had enough of them. I do have other dogs/bitches here who are good with pups who are great at teaching them manners and how to live in a pack. Normally I would be happy to let them go back when the pups go at 8 weeks. I have only done the bitch back once for a litter. I am not keen on doing it again.

I used sports strapping tape wrapped around a couple of times. The narrow one is better. You could try Elastoplast, but it can be a pig to get off the hair and still leave SOME hair behind. Even with the glue, after a few times, not much hair is left.

Maybe look at flights arriving later in evening or departing early morning. That is if breeder is open or able to do that. It is cooler and have found night flights seem to be better than day ones. When I have flown pups from bris to Perth - it is a 5 hr flight, plus 90 mins pre booking plus up to 40 mins from plane to freight. They have not had issue. A long hr road trip with strangers can be just as stressful than a 5 hr flight. As for diet, I would be getting this from breeder and seeking their advice on what they are feeding and change from their diet to yours. With any diet change, it should be gradual.

I would also try current affair or similar as it seems it may also be an issue for quite a few others too.

Those videos are pretty much close on the type of things you need to do. There are some slight variations to them. The hardest part is because some use the glue on the ear hair, it can depend on how many times you need to take out the bracing and also how much is ripped out if you allow pups to play and tear them. Weighting the tips is far easier than having to lift heavy ears. Even worse if the ears develop the second fold to give you a rose type ear.

I have flown pups from Brisbane to Perth, Launceston and Darwin. All have gone off without a hitch nod arrived safe and sound.

BC. I have never been successful with bracing ears that way. There are a few methods of frames or braces, cut out cardboard bits taped on the ear. But you need to really start at 8 weeks and go nearly to 6 months. Much harder if you have more than one dog as they tend to pull it out while playing

Boronia You can block the sending of your number when you call. If you text, it will show up and you cannot stop that. Depending on the type of phone, go into call setting and select " don't show number" when you call, the number will come up blocked. You can also do it from landlines, although the codes are different. It does sound though that Council is not interested in following it up. The best you could do is try to get an address from them to try to see them there - that is providing they give you their home address and not a a local park or something.

I have worked out the formula for the gunk to stick ears. It has always bothered me, sticking things like cement and sump oil on as both of these substances are quite harsh and remove the natural oils to the skin. Whiting/snowcal is sodium bicarbonate. It is non toxic and is used for a variety of uses including being mixed with water to do line marking. Castor oil and Stockholm tar. Mix snowcal with oil to make a paste. Add enough Stockholm tar to make the paste tacky, without being solid. Place goop on ears and then pat powdered chalk or cornstarch (talcum) powder to dry. It simply washes and combs out.

Scarlet: