Cosmolo

I understand that Kavik. I choose to use it differently rather than not at all though. :cool:

Its late i know so tomorrow might be better for me to construct this response but anyway :cool: I don't see the difference though- i look at the dog trained with P+ as also saying 'i know what to do to turn the stim off' too. And the dog trained with N- would also say 'better do XYZ behaviour to avoid the stimulation continuing'- so you could interchange both 'thoughts' in the dog with both methods? Another question- do you always use the RT in that way, throughout the dogs training? Do you stop the stimulation occurring first as the dogs training progresses? Sorry Erny- i am confused about what you mean with the nick button being brought in with N- and not with P+.Maybe after a good nights sleep i will get it or you can clarify when its not so close to midnight Thanks for the thoughts- its good to throw some ideas around.

Yes he does- but low level stimulation rather than a correction as such. Only once the dog clearly understands the exercises and the stimulation and response does he then use a correction as the final step. I am the same Erny with regards to your other comment (sorry- i don't know how to quote :cool: ) but i think thats why i don't understand the difference or advantage to applying stim beforethe command when everything else is the same? ETA i keep missing workshops and seminars lately but we were just lucky at the time to be able to go to that particular one!

No i haven't Erny. I have a bit of a fundamental problem with not giving the dog the opportunity to respond to the command first- particularly because i am most often dealing with known commands rather than brand new exercises. Watching Bart Bellon at a workshop a few years ago showed us what we do now but i am curious about the differences in responses and learning that may occur using it in a different way.

But doesn't the dog still have the power to turn the stim off after a command has been given? Still using the RT at low levels of course. Whats the reason not to give the dog the opportunity to respond to the command first? I understand that some people want the stim to become the cue itself but surely this limits the number of training exercises you can use the RT for? I use the e collar at low levels, after a command has been given and while i sometimes refer to it as negative reinforcement, this is not technically correct. But i still get significant increases in confidence- i feel like it differs from positive punishment but i suppose technically it is? :cool:

Could someone explain the advantages (if any) of applying low level stimulation before a command is given as opposed to after the command is given and the dog has not responded? Thanks!

What PF said. Highly likely that when your ACD is mouthing they are in drive and enjoying the behaviour immensely so you may need to use an aversive/ correction to stop the behaviour. I urge you to perhaps try a few different options mentioned in the other threads but if they are not successful- please do seek recommendations for a trainer in your area who can help you. I saw an ACD 12 months ago whose mouthing turned into significant biting as it was not dealt with early enough. ETA Ignoring a mouthing dog in drive will not work and squealing may very well make the problem much worse.

Please, please be on a weekend i can go Can you email me the flyer Kelpie i

Bump- nearly time for Sydney!!

Anita posted a link about a month ago?

My understanding is that e collars can now be imported without issue- prongs i think would be a problem without a permit though.

If you are giving a correction rather than a command, i would not reward immediately as you don't want to teach the dog that your correction means a reward is coming. If you give a command such as in Huski's case then i would reward.

Tims mum- i can't answer for the OP but we chose non surgical options because our boy would not cope with the recovery after surgery and would need 4 separate surgeries. In many cases where the dog is over 12 moths, surgery doesn't fix the problem- the vets i have spoken to have called it a salvage operation. Cartrophen injections have been a god send for my boy as well as bowen massage, raw diet, light weight and restricted exercise.

I don't think its random- i think the dog has developed a preference for material surface- did the breeder tell you where the dog toileted previously/ what surface?

Well done!!!

What!!?? What a horrid thing to say Where will you go from here Erny?

me too

Sorry, i have just checked the website where the notes would have been available and they ahve every speaker but her. They aren't training notes- more about her (less than favourable) thoughts on having a dog and working full time.

Shellectra- are you going to a puppy school or training? Independence training from day one is vital and for an only dog to be in a small area for long periods of time can make things more difficult for you and your pup- particularly if you change things later on. I leave my dogs in the house as adults but never as puppies for long periods. Don't expect your pup to 'grow out of' anything- puppies make transitions when you assist them in the right way to do so.

IMO any of those products with some (not all) dogs assist in taking the 'edge off' while other behaviour modification techniques are taking place. You should be able to get them from most pet supply, stockfeed stores or online www.naturevet.com.au I have pm'd you too

If anyone could find Dr Seksel's notes from the International Animal Welfare Conference- you may want to read these before seeing her, especially if you work full time. I would look at the natural supplements i mentioned before medication as well as seeing a behaviour specialist.

I would not leave it in the hope that he'll grow out of it- especially if he is grabbing and holding on?? You don't want to wait for the day that Hugo has to tell him off for what is essentially inappropriate play (assuming we are dealing with a grab and hold of the tail rather than mouthing, letting go frequently) or he willl learn that he can play with all dogs this way.

What everyone else said But just to add, if you are certain (ideally once a good agility instructor has told you so) the dog knows whats expected, a calm, quiet time out can really help if the dog loves agility. This worked very well for my Cosmo dog as she would get so excited (because she loved agility) that she would bolt and choose other pieces of equipment to jump on. As soon as she realised this meant she wouldn't get to do agility, she concentrated much more. She only needed 3 time outs in total- also helped by the fact that i would then work my other dog in front of her while she was timed out.

Can you just clarify- no talking to the dog and reducing affection? Do you mean no talking in certain situations or at all? Have you done any obediece training with him? While obedience is not a cure all, it can help in cases of anxiety. Have you spoken to the behaviourist again since the behaviour intensified? I would consider some Behave or tranquil paste or petark calm suppplement to assist you rather than medication. I see many dogs with separation anxiety and haven't noticed a correlation between SA and single or 2 dog litter. Curious if other trainers here have?

Me too Kelpie i