_PL_

how cruel and distressing to the dog cruel? ...maybe...what are the options???...distressing?...yes, that's why the wanted outcome should be achieved ASAP to minimize the stress! If the dog won't be able to walk the stairs again, but is still healthy enough to enjoy himself to poo and pee outside on his own terms I prefer to let him have this dignity instead of forcing him to mess up the rooms. Rescue some old dogs, see their distress and need for routine and stability then provide your input thanks Willem. There are other options that are kinder and will in the long run work out for everyone. I don't think they deliberately want to upset or cause anxiety issues but felt helpless, and now have enough information to go on with. I have no problem with making changes that benefit a senior dog, to insinuate that it robs dignity is pure stupidity.

I think I didn't stress enough how dreadful it is for an old dog to find themselves moved out. Please don't. Find a way of changing your own system rather than his.

Thanks Perse! :)

I sympathise with you and being an old dog rescuer here are my tried and true; I'd take him for some gentle supportive therapy (usually includes some acupuncture) with proven practitioner. Works wonders for my 3 legged yorkie. :) After the first session he actually seemed to look forward to it and that's not like him at all. LOL I did have x-rays to take with me which did help too but I think the therapy would have been the same, he was just able to clearly point out what was going on with his vertebrae. What area are you in? Food; dry food only earlier in the day. Dry = thirsty = more night time pee. See if you can bump his meals earlier and take him out before bed, make a fuss and reward him if he does poo or pee. Or a tiny little walk can get things moving. Because it's more fun to poo in the great outdoors. :laugh: See if you can wean him over to BARF or give him meaty low fat bones. Bone content tends to dry out the poo a bit and make it firmer and leaves less mess. Crate or probably better would be a puppy pen in your room seeing as how it's easier for you to lean over to pick him up and clean. Use some cheap pee pads. Check Vebo Pets for the best prices on pens/crates. $2 shops for pee pads. We also have all our dogs on Joint Performance Canine Formula. Great stuff! It's improved my eldest boy's hind legs and last checkup he had great movement. Cartrophen shots every 6 to 12 months. And for pain, ask about a non-steroidal anti inflammatory like Metacam. Moving him away from you when you are his whole life especially in old age is hugely distressing for a senior. Long post, sorry. Hope something helps. Edited to make sense.

I just found someone on FB posting working photos. They are such a powerful little critter!

Thank you! It would be great if she was reclaimed or went to someone who knows the breed and can keep her busy & challenged. Cute and scruffy but too much terrier for me and I guess a lot of rescues would find her a bit too much as well. :laugh:

Due on the 27th which is enough days impounded that it was microchipped as such. I don't know enough about the Jagded in Aus but thought I'd put this dog here just in case it is PB or if anyone knows a breeder. There's been a small handful of impounded Patterdale over the years so I assume it's not out of the realms of possibility. Wollondilly Lost Found and Injured Pets http://www.wollondilly.nsw.gov.au/resident-services/animals-listing/view/101 Please don't harass the pound unless you are interested in reclaim/adoption. :) They can't give you microchip/ownership detail information.

Thanks Julie :) they're going on 4 yrs old and are still robust little critters. Maybe being slightly older helped? I don't know. For any pup their age my comfort zone is C3 + intranasal KC especially considering it's often a full vetwork & desex day. I'm really nervy about yearly heartworm (not sure exactly why) so it's totally off the table. But everyone who uses it seems quite happy so maybe I'm being paranoid. I figure once something is injected you can't get it out again if there's a bad reaction!

So far they were lucky - the studies show that multi vaccines give a much higher risk of disease development later on . The breaking out in hives and getting obviously ill after a vaccine is pretty rare but there is ample documentation to show that if a puppy's immune system is already depleted due to stress or worms etc that multi vaccines can actually give the pup the disease its being vaccinated against - and long term side effects wont be known for a longer time. See references following. Look everyone should vaccinate their dogs - its ridiculous to consider not doing so but its not a case of just jabbing them with everything available - its about risk assessment .Whether the potential problems are greater than the potential benefits. Parvo is horrible it kills dogs dead and in puppies its heartbreaking to watch a baby suffer with it .In my opinion the vet who gave your puppies a C7 was an idiot. Quote. On a related note, polyvalent vaccines (containing more than one disease component) also increase the risk of vaccine failure. The more antigens contained in a vaccine, the more viral replication the puppy will experience at once, meaning his immune system might be stretched to the limit, allowing one of the antigens to develop into full blown disease – and the risk is even greater in small dogs. The immune system is a finite resource and can only be stretch so far so it is safest to avoid giving multiple antigens on one vaccine (Moore et al, JAVMA, 2005] And The Purdue studies, although labelled as inconclusive at the time, reveal some unique insights into how vaccination can manifest as chronic disease. In this study, the vaccinated but not the unvaccinated dogs developed autoantibodies to many of their own biochemicals including: Fibronection (Involved in tissue repair, cell multiplication and growth, and differentiation between tissues and organs), Laminin (Involved in many cellular activities including the intelligence, proliferation and movement of cells), Cardiolipin (Frequently found in patients with Lupus Erythematosus and other autoimmune diseases. Cardiolipin is also significantly associated with fetal loss and neurological conditions), Collagen (Provides structure to bones and soft tissue and likely the reason why a high number of dogs developed mobility problems shortly after vaccination in the Canine Health Concern 1997 study), DNA (Yes, the vaccinated dogs developed autoantibodies to their own DNA). Jesus! How is it even allowed here in Sydney? I'm not sure I've ever heard of a dog getting Lepto here. We had the WTF phonecall but it was all done by then.

A different take on things from a different Councillor, which I would call a legitimate first hand statement about what's going on internally. My link

Steve this is probably a question for you. I had a 12 to 16 wk pound litter with no known vaccine history vetworked at a vet I don't normally use, but it was due to location so saved travel. Anyway - I've only had pups done with C3 for littlies and a for older pups C5. So I was really taken aback when they were given a C7! It seems complete over-kill and I wasn't happy that it was so routine for babies and that nobody checked my instructions. They didn't get visibly ill but it's always worried me. Were they lucky not to react in some way?

Were there any pictures of this cat? did the volunteers see any injuries on the cat? It's in the original link in post 1, scroll down and you will find the un-blurred version. details click 'show' I don't care how they explain it or if they claim the cat was dead (because they were so certain the black one was dead). It's disgusting and inhuman. You check and you bag and treat the body with some kind of respect. If they are dedicated to changing, from hereon out it should be done by a vet. If a council employee is injured on the job they need to lodge an incident report and assuming it was as bad as they claim; the ranger would have needed antibiotics and a tetanus shot if necessary. Where is it if the black cat bit so badly it was flung around? Maree I wholly respect you as a rescuer and understand that you have a long standing relationship with Wagga. I understand that you believe the rangers you work with could not possibly do this. So even if the accusations aren't true; council has finally publicly acknowledged past mistakes and a commitment to change after media scrutiny so it can only be a good thing for staff, rescuers, adopters and the community.

:rofl: I totally love your dogs Perse. Put some of your Molly photos in here! She's so beautiful.

Who are the "people like that"? Possibly a pretty low paid council worker driven to distraction by volunteers who think they have all the answers and who rush to FB and the press when their words of wisdom aren't acted upon or policies they disagree with are practiced. Pound workers also get to deal with really difficult pet owners and they never have enough resources to do everything that should and could be done for the animals. It happens. Sometimes those volunteers who are supposedly all for the animals are in reality all for attention seeking, self aggrandising behaviour. And when their trouble making and failure to be able deal with the practical aspects of too many animals to save and to work with the pound staff sees them booted, they seek martyrdom. And its the animals who pay. It pays to remember that there are ALWAYS two sides of a story and that those supposedly championing animals often have their own agendas. Of course government workers are gagged and they cannot speak to the press. Whoever said the road to hell was paved with good intentions must have had experience with animal welfare. I'm the first to admit that the welfare activists make a mess. And you're right, it happens and it happens everywhere. But there is a track record of difficulty within this pound and for some reason other councils whose staff are paid equally poorly and work under the same stressors manage to suck it up and get better outcomes for their animals. In some cases, volunteers are the only ones with any time to help the inmates and over-stretched staff welcome the help. Any pound's volunteers are paid nothing and work hundreds of hours under their own amount of stress, it doesn't mean they are there to be whipping boys when staff are challenged over their actions. I honestly can't see much changing. Council will make noise about sorting things out and it will all go back to normal.

Same. I was distraught the last time we left and have never been back. I can PM you a couple if you like but Rob Zammit is known for working with purebreds.

Waiting for good news :) :) :) I hope your partner has put his big-girl pants on by now, he's not out in the bush anymore. Half my family have paid the bills by farming for generations and never ever speak like that.

I understand daily frustrations and that pound work is really a thankless job but you need to have a heart and be transparent. Rescue nutters do ruin good relationships for everyone else. And there's been a few absolutely brilliant rangers through, I don't blame them for moving on. Now; I'm speaking out of school. Glenfield Road Animal Shelter has had rescuers and volunteers walking on eggshells for years. For as long as I can remember. If they had a hissy over whatever minor infraction or just having a shit week, you would find them withholding PTS lists or refusing to allow volunteers in to see who was in there. Or just 'too busy' to load the photos up on Rescue Rex. Pretty much STFU or no dogs & cats get out and it's all your fault. I'm in admiration of the rescuer who kept pushing on, getting lists out no matter how often things went bad. Kudos to the women who stood up. edit; Sars, I don't know the setup now but the pound page has a gallery insert (cincopa) which means images can be uploaded from anywhere like you do with photobucket or flickr. The old setup they used was Rescue Rex - pre-FB, a hosted album a rescuer set up because councils still don't have obligatory pound pages. There's hundreds of councils whose animals disappear unless a volunteer or staff member are allowed or required to use Rescue Rex or FB. Australia's pets just vanish into impound facilities, never to be seen again.

I found the dog mentioned in the SMH article

You may find a rescue up there who is OK to list him. It can be problematic if they don't know the dog so someone really local who wants to meet him and work with you guys in rehoming would be perfect. :) Sort out things like who the dog belongs to, who is responsible for an accident and who takes the dog back in a few years if he needs to be returned. He sounds lovely for the right home. If they want to do private rehoming after desexing you are welcome to cut&paste our adoption application if that helps.

Emailed it to you - let me know if you don't receive it. Thank you. Very disturbing to read. Stupid question, there were two different kittens? Did both survive? I haven't had the guts to go read more articles and find out more.

Do you have the link Stell'nme? PM is OK. If I get this moved to the cruelty section it won't get seen but I will put a warning in the title. Mods feel free to move if appropriate.

DO NOT CLICK LINK I've just added text unless you want to see graphic images here

Firstly, I'm sorry you've had to learn the hard way. I hope you and your girl feel better soon. Secondly; Willem just does that so don't feel obliged to take anything on board. In over 10 years of desexing females of all ages not once have we had hemangiosarcoma occur so scaremongering is less than helpful. Thirdly, as a rescue; We've had lots come in at all stages of pyo and despite many being in the life threatening stage we haven't lost one yet. We had six bitches in a row once! The more advanced it is, the longer it will take before they feel better. They do get very very sick and miserable, sore and full of pain meds and antibiotics. I think the worst one - a rotti cross- had 5 to 7 days in emergency hospital and was zipped up with staples. Went through litres and litres of fluids and flushes, drains, drugs; the lot. Looked and felt like crap for a while. And she went on to be a very happy pet. Around 3/4 of those pyo dogs also had mammary tumours. Some requiring a mammary strip. Some have had the trifecta of pyo, multiple mammary cancers and large hernias. Even they pull through and toddle off to new homes. Ages range from around 6 to 14 yrs. I find it frustrating that it's so common but so avoidable, and I'm in total agreement with Oakaway more people need to be desexing their girls if they are either a) not breeding from them or b) unable to detect or treat related conditions. No offence to you personally because I wouldn't wish this on anyone nor their dog. I hope you can sort out an extra credit card or loan. You've come this far, she will get better and eventually you'll have your gorgeous girl up on her feet again. :) If she gets well enough to be moved to your regular vet then I'd go for it.

Thanks to you both. :) That's what I suspected. The few big dogs I've had, I ended up just leaving the callous to re-harden because even when they spend most of the time sprawled on the lounge, you just need one ridiculously hot day perfect for sun baking on the concrete to really come up with sore pointy little elbows

Just when I think Willem is running a thread off the rails ...... :laugh: :laugh: