Security Handling

[Monah]

Our next door neighbour in Adel was an under cover cop who had a gsd, fully trained police dog living with him and his family. This dog was fantastic, a pussycat with the kids, no special dangerous dog etc. required (over 10 years ago though), but on the job he was all focus and work work work. Really beautiful. My firends have 2 rottie guard dogs here. They are just registered under guard dog, which costs a lot more but is tax deductable. They are not trained guard dogs, pound rescues, but people are frightened of them so it works well. They are sookier than just about any dog I know but I wouldn't want to try and get in the workshop at night!

[Mystiqview]

Through work, we have used pretty much all the main security companies within Brisbane... Unfortunately through work, not many of them are crash hot dog handlers. Have had dealings with many of them prefessionally.. and so far unfortunately they are all rednecks.

Can't say too much more unfortunately without giving too much information.

[Vizsla]

The Victorian Domestic (Feral & Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 is very clear in what is defined as a "dangerous dog" and a dog which has undergone protection training is automatically to be declared "dangerous".

The D(FN)AA 1994 is state legislation and all Councils must enforce provisions of the Act.

Edited November 30, 2007 by Vizsla

[cramet]

with sec k9

its up top your local council in vic some have a permit some dont you just have to chat to them

and with the dog runs they have to have roofs and min of 6ft cant remb the rest of the dimentions that side of thing you follow the dangerous dog act i think they also have to have a secondary fence around the pen

[Nekhbet]

my ears are burning ...

DD? ... security training ... huh ... what *cough*

no idea what you're on about

I have found that most security people (cramet dont listen) are dodgy. If you plan to work with a dog you should get one to take home, live with it, bond with it. If its not a stable animal dont bother with it.

To me a 5 day course is BS. As far as I'm concerned handling a dog is not the same as driving a car. You can get away with driving a car and not being a mechanic. You cant get away with 'handling' a security dog and not know anything about drive training, defence and bitework.

I have seen so called handlers ... a lot of then have scarred arms and wrists from the dog turning on them. I would never go out and work with someone elses dog and rely on it.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Nekhbet

[Just Midol]

I know the 5 day course is crap But it is set to address the requirements for the dog handling licence so it'll be compulsory eventually anyway.

[cramet]

have a chat with a few handlers and trainer if you can and ask them

they will always tell you black and white because if they are serious enough about what they do they would have done the research about it

[wayrod]

In Victoria, the following was taken from the guidelines for the Private Keeping of Dogs which was recently approved by the Governor in Council and printed in the Victoria Government Gazette, page 2660, on 15 November 2007.

I hope this helps.

It is an offence to train dogs to attack, except in accordance with the Domestic (Feral and

Nuisance) Animals Act 1994. Attack training is only permissible for police and armed services use.

Licensed security guards may also have attack trained dogs provided the requirements of the Code

of Practice for the Operation of Dog Training Establishments are met. Such dogs are automatically

declared as dangerous dogs and owners must comply with the associated legislative requirements.

This is State Government Legislation and overrides Local Laws set by Local Councils.

[JulesD]

quote name='Lord Midol' date='22nd Nov 2007 - 06:03 PM' post='2194100']

Heya,

In todays lesson (for security) I was drilling the teacher guy about dog handling in the security industry. He knew a bit and said my best bet is to do the short 5 day course at wide bay then seek out a dog and get a few lessons myself with the dog then try and get a job as a handler and the company should fund the rest of the training.

Is this how it works? He admitted he didn't know much about it but said he has seen it done this way before? If so, who would I be looking at up here on the coast? I need as much training as the dog does...

The first aid instructor is actually a dog handler and trains protection dogs but I don't like him as he wouldn't answer any of my questions.

Cheers,

Michael.

Hi Michael,

You should have your dog trained by an experienced and qualified specialist dog trainer who is willing to answer all and any of your questions about your dog, if you don't understand the answer ask them again because it is very important to learn as much as you can and to know what is happening in relation to your dog you as a handler and the training.

By Specialist I mean someone who has studied and is certified to train protection /security dogs, as tomorrow you can go out and call yourself a dog trainer and no one can stop you.

I am from K9 Centre.com and we see a large variety of dogs. We see dogs that "trainers" have said are no good but the dog has turned out to a great working dog and we have seen dogs that are trained using fear as a motivation to react that it is disgusting.

If you are not happy with any answers or actions don't continue training until you are.

A good dog should be alert and confident and be able to be taken into a public place safely and be able to be approached by strangers. If someone is full of hot air you don't want your dog reacting and you don't want your dog barking all night at every drunk that walks past.

We have a Rottweiler fully trained in protection who is like a pussy cat ( in Pic below who in this pic is at Bribie Island beach playing with other dogs and other people) he is now 8yrs old and is so safe and reliable, We have also taken this dog into schools to show how to approach a large dog and have had no worries.

Feel free to PM me if you want any info on this sort of or any other dog training

Julie

[witheverythingiam]

Where in the Wide Bay is the course held?

I know a guy on the Sunshine Coast who has his own security company with dogs.

-WithEverythingIAm

[Just Midol]

WEIA, umm, no idea - http://www.widebay.tafe.qld.gov.au/courses...og_handler.html

Maroochy council got back to me. Must be housed as a dangerous dog (I also must declare him as a dangerous dog). Requirements are:

1) The enclosure must not be built or situated in a way that requires a member of the public to go into the enclosure to gain access to the house.

2) The area enclosed must be at least ten square meters.

3) walls of enclosure must be 6ft.

4) firm and strong materials and child proof so kiddies can't get hands and feet into it.

5) must have a gate.

My issue is that they said I must comply to ALL dangerous dog laws, one of which is a muzzle in public. If a patrol dog needs a muzzle then that defeats the purpose of having one so need to seek clarification on this.

[cramet]

sec k9s come under different rule to you every day k9s

when they are working they come under a simular banner as gide dogs (spelling), sniffer dogs and so on

they can go places that normal dogs cant and not spose to be tuched by the public when working

other than that i cant say much more towards the legal side of it as i am from vic

but the main advice i can give you is talk to a local handler or even better there manager because

but if you do need to were a muzzle when you work you get a muzzle made with a quick release clip

you can get them off very quick with the right release system

in vic you just need a security lic to own a sec k9 and that covers most of the problems with the dangerous dog act

Edited December 12, 2007 by cramet

[Scope]

ok - i have actually worked on a dog team with a crowd control dog... i cant go into the specifics of the legals for keeping the dog in QLD because i'm from melbourne...

i also have no idea about what sort of training is offered up that way, and i just sort of stumbled into things down here...

there is nothing wrong with taking on a company dog, if it has been trained correctly... it saves a hell of a lot of hassle and heartbreak with raising puppies and then finding serious temperment flaws, or just not having it in them to do the job...

it also means you are more likely to actually be able to get out there and start working, instead of spending years and $$$ trying to find the right dog...

however do be wary because the general attitude in australia seems to be that the dog should only bond with and work for one handler (and therefore display aggressive behaviour towards anyone else)

IMO a GOOD working dog should be safe enough to be handed over to someone else and will work just as well no matter who is holding the lead...

i didnt do it very often, but when i had my GSD i could hand the lead to a friend, and she (dog) would quite happily work for someone else, and just as happily bite me as well...

make sure you are allowed to take your dog home with you... i definitely wouldnt suggest giving it free run of the house... and in most cases a secure pen is a very good idea, regardless of whether you plan to register the dog as dangerous or not (i didnt with either of my two)... as well as keeping the general public safe from your dog, it also protects your investment from J. Random Moron...

dont work for a company that doesnt want to train you, or doesnt have some sort of regular organised training... a responsible company will want to keep an eye on what sort of dogs their employees are using...

on the issue of muzzles...

we had to work our dogs with muzzles on... and a muzzled dog can be just as much of a weapon as an unmuzzled dog if it has been taught correctly and fitted with a proper agitation muzzle with a steel bar in it... and a no-bite situation means less paperwork and legal sh!t for you...

i'm being incredibly serious here when i say that unless a weapon is involved, or someone's life is at stake, you're better off preventing the dog from getting a live bite...

believe me, being collected by 35+kg of GSD, 45+kg of rottweiler, or worse a mere 20-odd kg of malinois at head height, in full flight, f#cking hurts... and copping a muzzle to the kidneys will usually ruin your night in a hurry...

we used quick release muzzles, but in all honesty found the best setup was to have the muzzle a tiny bit loose, and the quickest way to get it off was one hand on the dog's collar and two fingers under the top strap of the muzzle and drag it over the dog's head... muzzle off in mere seconds every time...

the dogs also worked out that if the muzzles were taken off normally, it usually meant that everything was fine and they could relax, but if the muzzle came off with the drag method, then the midden had hit the windmill, and it was ON!

[GSDK9 Handler]

Jeff, the security instructor or the dog guy?

Will PM those two. I think I will use one of their dogs for the course. I am just trying to find the local laws here for how I have to contain a trained dog. Bloody hard to find this info.

Anyone know anything about these guys: http://www.k9centre.com/index.html

I would consider traveling but if I need regular lessons and such then it will get pricey making the drive and such.

I purchased a K9 called “Zeek” from Martin, he is a brilliant trainer who trains “Security” dogs. He doesn’t just use police training methods to training violent K9s, he adapts police methods to train his K9s to be a switch on/ switch off Security K9. They are very safe and reliable around anyone including kids.

I searched around Brisbane for months to find a good trainer that doesn’t use force or brutality to train their K9s. Martin was one of two that I found suitable in the Brisbane area. The other was Craig A. Murray. http://www.dogschool.com.au/Site/100689.asp

[GSDK9 Handler]

In regards to security dog handling give me a call on 0423 210 604, and i can explan just about anything you need to know,

plus i live in morayfield so i can tell you about local laws and save you some money and may be get you some work.