Teaching The "stay" Command

[Drumbeat]

I would really appreciate some advice on how to start teaching our 6 month old pup the 'stay' command. We attend obedience classes but haven't covered this command yet and as she is a terrier I would like to start working on it sooner rather than later!

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm not sure if this is what you're after but when I teach "sit" and "drop" - I mean "stay in that position until I say otherwise" - from there it is really simple to add in a "stay" command when you need to. Therefore, I have a casual "lie down" command around the house and only use "sit" and "drop" when I am able to control what Zig will do.

Hope that makes sense

[Guest Tess32]

Decide to work on time or distance first Most begin in a sit stay - stand in front of your dog and reward for one sec, end exercise, and build up time.

[TerraNik]

Decide to work on time or distance first Most begin in a sit stay - stand in front of your dog and reward for one sec, end exercise, and build up time.

The club that I go to has a cute way of teaching stay... They call it the 'puppy stay'. You put the dog in a drop/down and hold onto their collar. You put about 5 pieces of food in front of them and give the command 'stay' (keep holding their collar) and give them the food after a second... Repeat until all food is gone. When the dog gets better you can start to increase the amount of time the food is in front and you can stop holding their collar.

Personally, I taught it by how Tess described it. If your dog is flighty, just stand next her, give the command and hand signal and then reward pretty much immediately (as long as her butt is still on the ground!). Then you can start to move in front of her. If she tries to move then because she sees you move, try just moving your foot forward, then back and reward if she stays. Then move in front (facing her) and move back straight away. As Tess said - you either increase time, or you increase distance. Never at the same time.

[Echo]

I'm not sure if this is what you're after but when I teach "sit" and "drop" - I mean "stay in that position until I say otherwise" - from there it is really simple to add in a "stay" command when you need to.

Hope that makes sense

I'm a little confused. If this is so, (bold) then why do you need to add the "stay" command at all?

Julie

[Cosmolo]

I just use a release word- never a stay command for my guys. And they have excellent reliable stays

[The Spotted Devil]

I'm not sure if this is what you're after but when I teach "sit" and "drop" - I mean "stay in that position until I say otherwise" - from there it is really simple to add in a "stay" command when you need to.

Hope that makes sense

I'm a little confused. If this is so, (bold) then why do you need to add the "stay" command at all?

Julie

I added in a "stay" for stays and a "wait" for recalls - just lets him know to either relax or be on his toes in a trial situation. Maybe it wasn't really necessary but it's almost like insurance, I guess.

[Just Midol]

I also have no stay.

If I want my dog to stay I put him in a sit or a drop and he will stay there till I bloody well tell him to come to me

He gets distracted easily, but it's good enough for a companion dog who never goes off leash.

[Kavik]

If taught from the beginning sit means sit until I tell you otherwise, you don't need a stay command. However, I'm pretty sure they make you use one for trialling.

[Guest Tess32]

I prefer to use stays - unless you're very aware all the time, most people put their dog into a sit but don't follow through with demanding a stay and a release word, so the dog learns it can get up every now and tehn. I find it much easier and clearer to teach stay seperately, and it means I don't have to be ALWAYS on guard in case the dog gets up during a random sit (eg on a walk or something), therefore weakening the stay.

[PAX]

If taught from the beginning sit means sit until I tell you otherwise, you don't need a stay command. However, I'm pretty sure they make you use one for trialling.

Not sure who 'they' is but you don't have to use a stay cue for trialling.

[Kavik]

cool. I always assumed you had to use a stay when you trial. I guess that's just how clubs tend to train. You wouldn't get pinged for just saying sit and leaving the dog? Considering I copped flack for putting my lead in a different hand or using different hand signals or finish, I bet one club I have been to would pick on me for that

[squeak]

cool. I always assumed you had to use a stay when you trial. I guess that's just how clubs tend to train. You wouldn't get pinged for just saying sit and leaving the dog? Considering I copped flack for putting my lead in a different hand or using different hand signals or finish, I bet one club I have been to would pick on me for that

From the rule book for CCD for group sit stay...

"... On order from the Judge 'Leave (Leave your Dog)', the Handlers may give their dogs a command to day...."

(bold is mine for emphasis)

OT - saw someone doing CCD who almost lost points (and personally I think they should have) on the Stand for Examination, when they gave an additional stay signal to the dog before returning to the dog. Rules on this basically say return to the dog, but not whether or not an additional signal is allowed.

Here is link to ANKC rules (including Obedience) if you are interested.

http://www.ankc.org.au/home/inner.asp?pageID=70&mainID=2

[Kavik]

Thanks for the clarification squeak.

I'm glad I've decided not to go to that club anymore, as they picked on me for things you are actually allowed to do in a trial, just because I did it differently to them.

I think that person in CCD probably should have been pinged for that - extra signal. But maybe they were being lenient as it was CCD.

[squeak]

I think that person in CCD probably should have been pinged for that - extra signal. But maybe they were being lenient as it was CCD.

Yeah, I think that the judge gave them the benefit of the doubt. The rules were fairly new at the time (I think it may have been among one of the first trials with the new rules) and the judge actually checked the rule book before making a decision. It is not obvious from the CCD rules section itself, but if you read the intro stuff, it becames more clear. Judge that day was excellent - said if they didn't know something & checked. I am sure they would have gone home and double-checked for next time.

I am hoping to trial next year and am currently trying to familiarise myself with the rules. Giving a stay signal or not is something which I was curious about, since I do not use one, although I used to with our first dog. My reason is the... I want my dog not to move until I release it. With higher obedience levels you have "positions in motion" where you give your dog a signal (sit, drop, stand) and keep walking - NO stay signal is allowed. I figure if my dog is used to remaining in the commanded position, then they should be able to learn this fairly easily. I would be very, very interested in hearing how people who do use a stay signal teach this exercise.

Sorry, I've taken the thread slight OT I've now started a new thread so I don't clog this one up any further.

Edited September 5, 2008 by squeak

[Kavik]

I've been using a stay signal but I thought I had to to trial. I don't need to use it though for them to stay.

I have taught the exercises in motion with Zoe, found drop the easiest.

[WalandLibby]

I cue the dog into position (sit or drop), and give them a handful of treats, one at a time. At first I don't give a verbal cue, not at least until we've done it a few times to be sure that they understand that all the rewards available are from my hand if we're doing sit, and from the ground between their front legs if in a drop. Often I delay adding the verbal cue till much later. How I respond if they move depends on why I think they move - if it's because they've lost interest in the rewards or some other reward in the environment is more appealing at that moment then I give up on that go and try again later when things are different (and I've got better treats). If they move because they just don't know that staying still is what I'm rewarding then at first I might use my handful of treats to lure them back into position or if we've already done that a few times, I'll just wait to see if they can work out to go back to the position. If they can't after a few seconds, no drama, I help them out by luring. Once they seem to be getting the idea that holding position is what is getting them rewarded I start to increase the duration between the treats. This really helps them understand, as they will discover that getting up won't get them the treat. Soon you will be able to cue them to get up between treats - this is when it really starts to 'look' like stay. This is usually about where I add the verbal 'stay' cue, although it doesn't matter too much where you do, as long as it isn't too early (as long as they are likely to hold the position after you say it).

It is the case for most things that you teach, that if you try to teach multiple aspects of the behaviour at the same time the dog will struggle to understand what you're on about. For stay the main aspects are usually considered to be the 3Ds - duration, distance, distraction. You should teach duration first (building it quite slowly and carefully, and not continuously building it - if you did that the dog might get fed up and will know that it will be a looong time til it will be rewarded), then reduce the duration and start on the distance you move away (again, build it gradually), then put duration and distance together, then add distraction.

I don't think it's a great thing to try to develop too much of a stay for young dogs, I'd keep it short and close for a 6mth old.

Frustration behaviours were quite a challenge for me when teaching my Foxie to stay. Do you anticipate that with your pup?

Edited September 5, 2008 by WalandLibby

[Drumbeat]

Frustration behaviours were quite a challenge for me when teaching my Foxie to stay. Do you anticipate that with your pup?

Would that be for me or my dog ?

Seriously, thanks to everyone for the advice and I have started working on extending her sits. She is a bit of a rascal as she is quite focused at home but gets very distracted when we go to class, I'm not sure the instructors believe me when I say "she does this very well at home"!!