Should Small And Big Dogs Behave The Same?

[tarope]

All dogs large and small should have good manners, but that's upto the owners and lets face it some owners should not be allowed to own a dog. When walking my GSD a little malt ran out wanting to bite my boy, had I let him go the malt would have been ripped to shreds. The stupid owner comes out and abuses me.

If my boy got hold of the malt, the Media would say poor little dog mauled by vicious GSD At all breeds training people with small dogs don't realize their little dog can be just as aggressive as large dogs.

[Adnil444]

This is why I would like segregated areas at dog parks - the little dogs possibly wouldn't have to take on the small dog syndrome if they were only around dogs of their own size and hopefully enjoy playing and socialising with dogs of their own size. The same would apply to the timid ones - there would be no need to run and squeal because another dog approached you.

Yes, it's good that the Brisbane Council has provided some divided dog parks, for small & bigger.

It's not just a case of fault-finding, it's the imbalance in size among strange dogs, even in the the most reasonable of play.

My small tibbies were brought up with large dogs....a Tibetan Mastiff, a German Shepherd...& actually prefer them to small, more twittery dogs.

And they play/interact happily & safely with the greyhound next door.

BUT they're better off being in a dog park with strange dogs of around their own size, so there's no problem even from the most innocent of big dog 'force'.

It even applies in the human world. One of the top rugby-playing private schools in Brisbane has jacked up because some of the rival school rugby teams are offering sport scholarships to giants of lads outside the normal age-size range. So they're arguing for a more even distribution of weight & size among schoolboy teams.

Without that, even the usual collisions & tackles can become lethal. The dissenting school has said it will refuse to field a rugby team, if this problem isn't addressed.

I'm really pleased that some councils do offer this. And I totally agree with you. There are plenty of small dogs that have large dog "relatives" and there is no problem, however you are correct in stating, "strange" dogs as this is where the problem occurs. Even general play can cause damage/injury to a small dog. I have 3 dogs, one being a older mini-schnauzer and even though she is perfectly fine with my other 2 (dobexkelpie and dobexrottie), I would not take her to the dog park because of the other dogs that may injure her either through general play or because she may run and squeal (not likely with her) but it could happen. If the park had a small dog area, then yes, she would be taken to the park.

My son also plays rugby and we haven't had that issue pop up yet - probably only a matter of time.

[Adnil444]

I dislike when owners let their small dogs run and join in with the larger dogs playing.

My dog plays with a standard poodle, an airedale, lab and a x breed. Typical larger dog play involving lots of running. Occasionally SWFs will run over and join in and their owners oblivious to the risk. Its a long way to his feet for my boy and he has bowled a SWF over several times now while he is playing with the others - they get under his feet, he does not see them and it is risking a serious injury to my dog if he trips over however I get the dirty look when the small dog yelps.

Hi Danois, I agree with you here. In this situation, I would nicely explain to the owner that if the SWF wants to join in, please note that it may be injured because of the general nature of the size imbalance. If she is injured, it is not the larger dogs' fault and if you don't want your dog to be injured, to keep it away from the larger dogs playing. If they refuse or don't take any notice, then they have been warned and if their dog is injured, they really have no one else to blame but themselves.

I wouldn't allow my mini-schnauzer to play with larger unknown dogs (she doesn't play with my larger other two) because I am aware of the risks and I am not willing to allow it, however I don't want the larger dogs to have to stop playing and socialising because the owners of the SWFs don't understand/realise/care etc to keep them away.

[ncarter]

would you please stop saying ran and squeal. Because this is generally not what a nervous or intimidated dog does when confronted by another dog. The dog will either cower with fear, get in a submissive position or growl or snap or bark or lunge. And I also dont think its acceptable to let your dog join in with the 'pack' and have a go at a fearful dog.

Edited April 17, 2010 by ncarter

[wuffles]

would you please stop saying ran and squeal. Because this is generally not what a nervous or intimidated dog does when confronted by another dog. The dog will either cower with fear, get in a submissive position or growl or snap or bark or lunge. And I also dont think its acceptable to let your dog join in with the 'pack' and have a go at a fearful dog.

In my experience there aren't usually issues with a dog that cowers or rolls over in submission, the other dogs tend to back off or lost interest. Even when I've seen dogs growl or snap in fear, the others usually back off. However, when a dog runs and runs and runs (especially while squealing), that's when things start to go downhill.

[Bullbreedlover]

I have a large dog who is not overally friendly towards males of any breeds. That is him. I control him in and out of the show ring and he can be a big handful sometimes. He is not aggressive towards people. Hell I wouldnt be showing him if he was. OK so he has got some issues.

After having a talk to an exec councillor about another issue, I mentioned that I have a major problem with walking my dog past trolleys and crates at shows. The problem is that my dog is expected to act calm and collected while we walk through a sea of trolleys yet the small dogs in these trolleys are absolutely downright aggressive towards my dog.

So I have had enough!!!!!

I have had enough of owners having their dogs on long leads while walking their dogs past mine. I have had enough of these dogs in trolleys displaying aggression with out the owners giving a damn. So from now on I am going to say something to them. And if they dont like it, tough. I dont care if they think they are protecting their space.

What is it going to take for people to realise that they think it is alright for small dogs to behave aggressively but my large dog must have impeccable behaviour otherwise he gets labelled.

Edited April 17, 2010 by stonebridge

[Adnil444]

would you please stop saying ran and squeal. Because this is generally not what a nervous or intimidated dog does when confronted by another dog. The dog will either cower with fear, get in a submissive position or growl or snap or bark or lunge. And I also dont think its acceptable to let your dog join in with the 'pack' and have a go at a fearful dog.

Well what would you call it when a dog runs and squeals, certainly no confident, well socialised dogs - this is fear to me - yes the ones that roll over in submission have no problems at all. I don't let my dog join in the pack and I'm always trying to avoid this situation. What I'm saying is just as it is my responsibility to ensure and do the best to make sure my dog doesn't get involved with this pack mentality, the owners of these small dogs also have to ensure that their dogs won't invite the incident in the first place The small dogs that roll over and allow themselves to be sniffed and investigated (as my large dog will do) have no problems. The small dogs that won't let another dog approach them that just immediately run and squeal - this is a big problem for many owners (both large and small) at the park. These squealers certainly are not confident, some nervous and frightened dogs will do this.

Fearful/nervous dogs should never be brought into a dog park, until this behaviour has been addressed. Those that bring these types of dogs into dog parks are just inviting trouble.

[Adnil444]

I have a large dog who is not overally friendly towards males of any breeds. That is him. I control him in and out of the show ring and he can be a big handful sometimes. He is not aggressive towards people. Hell I wouldnt be showing him if he was. OK so he has got some issues.

After having a talk to an exec councillor about another issue, I mentioned that I have a major problem with walking my dog past trolleys and crates at shows. The problem is that my dog is expected to act calm and collected while we walk through a sea of trolleys yet the small dogs in these trolleys are absolutely downright aggressive towards my dog.

So I have had enough!!!!!

I have had enough of owners having their dogs on long leads while walking their dogs past mine. I have had enough of these dogs in trolleys displaying aggression with out the owners giving a damn. So from now on I am going to say something to them. And if they dont like it, tough. I dont care if they think they are protecting their space.

What is it going to take for people to realise that they think it is alright for small dogs to behave aggressively but my large dog must have impeccable behaviour otherwise he gets labelled.

Good on you - yes certainly say something to these completely ignorant, stupid owners. Imagine if your dog was to display the same behaviour - these little dog owners would be up in arms, but for some reason it is ok for their dogs to do this. Go for it, let them know what could happen if the reverse situation applied.

I had an incident yesterday where an older lady with an aggressive jrt kept running up and growling at my dogs - thankfully they didn't go back at the dog, I did suggest to the lady that perhaps she should keep it on a lead because if your dog did this behaviour to the wrong dog in the park, your dog may be attacked. She was shocked!!! At the time of this incident, both my dogs had tennis balls in their mouths, she also stated, your dogs can't do much damage as they have balls in their mouths????!!! What is wrong with people. It would take a split second, if my dogs wanted to, to drop the ball and have a go back at her dog. Ignorant and Stupid, that's what I say. Good luck.

[Adnil444]

would you please stop saying ran and squeal. Because this is generally not what a nervous or intimidated dog does when confronted by another dog. The dog will either cower with fear, get in a submissive position or growl or snap or bark or lunge. And I also dont think its acceptable to let your dog join in with the 'pack' and have a go at a fearful dog.

In my experience there aren't usually issues with a dog that cowers or rolls over in submission, the other dogs tend to back off or lost interest. Even when I've seen dogs growl or snap in fear, the others usually back off. However, when a dog runs and runs and runs (especially while squealing), that's when things start to go downhill.

You are so right. A dog that allows another dog to approach, let it be sniffed and investigated is ok, in fact in dog language, a dog that won't allow this is downright rude and problems can arise. It would be like a human putting out his/her hand for a handshake and the other person rejecting this gesture. Rude.

In my experience, once the dog has allowed it to be sniffed, the others walk away and go back to what they were doing. Simple.

Things go downhill very fast if that dog decides to run and squeal - I've never seen so many dogs from all directions get involved. It's not a pleasant experience for anyone - the small dog, the owner of the small dog, and also the owners of the larger breeds as well. I know I hate seeing this and the odd times that one of mine has been involved, it really affects me. That's why I want to see dog parks segregated. But unfortunately we have far too many people believing that just because they have a dog and there is a dog park that they have every right to use, which of course they do, but every owner must ensure that their dogs are totally dog friendly, confident and well socialised before going in.

I understand now why lots of dog behaviourists dislike dog parks, as do many trainers, dog breeders etc. I just wish that all owners understood their dogs and what to look for and made sure that they were properly socialised before coming into a dog park.

[Crisovar]

I'm thinking that some large dog owners think that it is ok for large dogs to intimidate small ones and that the small ones should simply suck it up. It is no laughing matter allowing a large dog to slam into small dogs and to bounce all over them no matter what their intentions.

One of my shih tzu grooming clients is sporting a broken leg, and injuries to her neck after being slammed and rolled by a young lab at the dog park, the shih tzus were the only dogs in the park when the lab arrived and when released ran straight across the park to them and started to "play". Suck it up or leave them home was the comment made to the owner of the injured dog.

I wonder how the Labs owner would feel if a 50 kg dog did the same to hers.

[newfsie]

I'm thinking that some large dog owners think that it is ok for large dogs to intimidate small ones and that the small ones should simply suck it up. It is no laughing matter allowing a large dog to slam into small dogs and to bounce all over them no matter what their intentions.

One of my shih tzu grooming clients is sporting a broken leg, and injuries to her neck after being slammed and rolled by a young lab at the dog park, the shih tzus were the only dogs in the park when the lab arrived and when released ran straight across the park to them and started to "play". Suck it up or leave them home was the comment made to the owner of the injured dog.

I wonder how the Labs owner would feel if a 50 kg dog did the same to hers.

That is awful.....And should not happen. I have taught my dogs to drop when meeting and greeting a nervous little one and we always start on lead. It is sad when either big or small dog owners do not show social manners. There is no way I would let my huge pup bound over to a small little dog. That is why people need a good recall before they go into off lead areas

We were at a dog training session yesterday where two little nervous dogs were full on yapping at ours. by the time we had done some training side by side our trainer asked us to just get close on lead and relax. the little ones actually came over to Katy, who was lying down and sniffed her and relaxed. That is why I do go to that particular trainer with my dogs, because the dogs do a lot of socialization on lead and when they get really comfortable at later training sessions in the more advanced classes, we have off lead sessions after training.

[mita]

I'm thinking that some large dog owners think that it is ok for large dogs to intimidate small ones and that the small ones should simply suck it up. It is no laughing matter allowing a large dog to slam into small dogs and to bounce all over them no matter what their intentions.

One of my shih tzu grooming clients is sporting a broken leg, and injuries to her neck after being slammed and rolled by a young lab at the dog park, the shih tzus were the only dogs in the park when the lab arrived and when released ran straight across the park to them and started to "play". Suck it up or leave them home was the comment made to the owner of the injured dog.

I wonder how the Labs owner would feel if a 50 kg dog did the same to hers.

People who use the expression 'suck it up' are showing they have vacuum cleaners for brains.....& think that must be the case for everyone else, too.

There's actually a problem to be solved. When you have larger dogs doing totally normal things at play in a dog park where there are smaller dogs, it's a high risk situation. Predictable.

Whereas the larger dogs might just bounce off each other, in any kind of rumble....from playful to bossy....the small dogs are prone to injury from the impact.

Which is why I thoroughly approve of the Brisbane City Council setting aside particular parks for the smaller dogs.

For those who argue that means the small dogs are then robbed of the chance to learn to socialise with bigger dogs... an open-slather dog park is just not condusive to owner controlled, gradual socialisation between a bigger & smaller dog. That CAN be done better elsewhere. It also requires the owners having a common goal & sharing the same ideas about actually doing the socialising.

When I walk our Tibbies, on leash, along the walking track, there are a number of large dogs we meet....also on leash.

Numbers of times, the owners have spoken to me & we've realised that we both value the opportunity of the varied size dogs, having a controlled meeting (still on leash).

Every time, it's gone brilliantly & the owners of the big dogs have thanked me profusely because it's such a rare opportunity.

Because of my Tibbies life experience living alongside a Tibetan Mastiff, a German Shepherd & well managed greyhounds, they don't immediately go into a blue funk.

(But I would not let this happen in the general melee of a leash-free dog park with owners who don't & can't negotiate controlled meetings between

dogs.)

Most of the big dog owners acknowledge they understand why owners of small dogs give them a wide berth....because they don't know how well-controlled the big dog is.

'Friends' our Tibbies have made via the controlled situation....are a couple of labradors, a german shepherd, a female doberman, an irish wolfhound...& the loveliest natured, most confident, well managed huge Rottie, named Robbie.

[mantis]

Should the owners of small, medium and large dogs be expected to teach their dogs the same level of manners regardless of the size of their dogs?

Yes

Are bigger dogs expcected to behave better than smaller dogs due to their size and the possible damage they can cause?

I believe that's a common expectation but not a fair one. All dogs should have manners.

Is it all right for small dogs to react to bigger dogs due to "small dog syndrome"?

I think "small dog syndrome" can often be fear aggression. No, it's not alright that dogs are put in positions where they behave aggressively, regardless of the situation. The onus should be on OWNERS to prevent such situations and to protect their dogs if necessary. Aggression, regardless of its cause is something that needs to be addressed, not explained away.

And if so, why are larger dogs not allowed to react?

Who says they're not allowed to react? They shouldn't have to tolerate aggression from any dog.

However, when was the last time you saw a large breed dog confronted by another dog that weighed more than 10 times what it did? No dog should be forced to defend itself but the frequency that larger breeds feel the need to may be less than for small dogs.

I personally believe that if every dog owner took responsibity for the control and safety of their dogs, we'd have a lot fewer of the "small dog vs big dog" threads we see here. They're all dogs and sometimes people need to remember that.

Excellent post PF.

All dogs should be trained & be socialable, it really angers me when owners of little dogs have the attitude that my dog is so small & it is cute when it shows aggression. Unfortunately, sometimes when these dogs get aggressive with big dogs, they come out the losers, then their owners scream at the big dog who put it in it's place. Kenny (45kgs), was attacked by a Mini Poodle from across the road, the owner laughed until he knocked the dog down & held it by the throat, the owner quickly stopped laughing, then started abusing me & Kenny. :D Fortunately Kenny isn't vicious & didn't put a mark on the Poodle, but if it was another dog, her Poodle could have ended up dead or seriously injured. :D

OH & PF, just to show I'm not picking on small dogs, Kenny was attacked by 2 large breed dogs as well & Kenny reacted the same, knock them down & grab their throats.

I hate irresponsible owners of all size dogs.

Edited April 18, 2010 by mantis

[Adnil444]

I'm thinking that some large dog owners think that it is ok for large dogs to intimidate small ones and that the small ones should simply suck it up. It is no laughing matter allowing a large dog to slam into small dogs and to bounce all over them no matter what their intentions.

One of my shih tzu grooming clients is sporting a broken leg, and injuries to her neck after being slammed and rolled by a young lab at the dog park, the shih tzus were the only dogs in the park when the lab arrived and when released ran straight across the park to them and started to "play". Suck it up or leave them home was the comment made to the owner of the injured dog.

I wonder how the Labs owner would feel if a 50 kg dog did the same to hers.

Hi Crisovar,

Certainly not appropriate at all - but if dog parks were segregated this wouldn't happen. Small and larger dogs in dog parks shouldn't really be mixing (in most cases). If the park had a small dog area in your instance, that shih tzu wouldn't have the broken leg and neck injuries now. Larger dogs being who they are, will play in a style that is not appropriate to small dogs - now matter how friendly all dogs are. We have an owner of a mini pinscher at the park sporting a broken leg (in a cast) and she still insists on bring the dog to the park. The dogs legs are like matchsticks and this is how it got broken in the first place,by playing with another small dog - so even small dogs can inflict injury (in this case by playing) to another smaller, more fragile dog. I'm sure her dog will get more injuries because of the physical build of that particular dog. This is most unfortunate as on the other side of the fence, the dog can be walked, still see and smell and hear the other dogs, but be safe. I certainly wouldn't be take the dog back, but that's just me.

[Crisovar]

I actually find it rude that dogs of any size are allowed to simply race up to any other dog regardless of it's size.

In this case I believe the owner of the Lab needs to teach the dog some manners, and should herself show some consideration to other owners.

[Adnil444]

I'm thinking that some large dog owners think that it is ok for large dogs to intimidate small ones and that the small ones should simply suck it up. It is no laughing matter allowing a large dog to slam into small dogs and to bounce all over them no matter what their intentions.

One of my shih tzu grooming clients is sporting a broken leg, and injuries to her neck after being slammed and rolled by a young lab at the dog park, the shih tzus were the only dogs in the park when the lab arrived and when released ran straight across the park to them and started to "play". Suck it up or leave them home was the comment made to the owner of the injured dog.

I wonder how the Labs owner would feel if a 50 kg dog did the same to hers.

People who use the expression 'suck it up' are showing they have vacuum cleaners for brains.....& think that must be the case for everyone else, too.

There's actually a problem to be solved. When you have larger dogs doing totally normal things at play in a dog park where there are smaller dogs, it's a high risk situation. Predictable.

Whereas the larger dogs might just bounce off each other, in any kind of rumble....from playful to bossy....the small dogs are prone to injury from the impact.

Which is why I thoroughly approve of the Brisbane City Council setting aside particular parks for the smaller dogs.

For those who argue that means the small dogs are then robbed of the chance to learn to socialise with bigger dogs... an open-slather dog park is just not condusive to owner controlled, gradual socialisation between a bigger & smaller dog. That CAN be done better elsewhere. It also requires the owners having a common goal & sharing the same ideas about actually doing the socialising.

When I walk our Tibbies, on leash, along the walking track, there are a number of large dogs we meet....also on leash.

Numbers of times, the owners have spoken to me & we've realised that we both value the opportunity of the varied size dogs, having a controlled meeting (still on leash).

Every time, it's gone brilliantly & the owners of the big dogs have thanked me profusely because it's such a rare opportunity.

Because of my Tibbies life experience living alongside a Tibetan Mastiff, a German Shepherd & well managed greyhounds, they don't immediately go into a blue funk.

(But I would not let this happen in the general melee of a leash-free dog park with owners who don't & can't negotiate controlled meetings between

dogs.)

Most of the big dog owners acknowledge they understand why owners of small dogs give them a wide berth....because they don't know how well-controlled the big dog is.

'Friends' our Tibbies have made via the controlled situation....are a couple of labradors, a german shepherd, a female doberman, an irish wolfhound...& the loveliest natured, most confident, well managed huge Rottie, named Robbie.

Hi Mita,

Why can't everyone be like you? You are the owner that everyone should be like Controlled situations are great and build confidence in timid dogs and owners alike. Open slather dog parks are not controlled, and have many irresponsbile and/or ignorant owners in them - injuries will always happen in these instances. In fact most owners have no idea that their dog is a problem or has any issues in the first place.

I have no problem with small dogs socialising with the bigger dogs as all dogs should be able to get along with each other, but only in controlled situations. And congratulations to Brisbane City Council for seeing that there is a problem which needs to be addressed and I would imagine quite inexpensively.

Now to work on my council - wish me luck.

[Adnil444]

I actually find it rude that dogs of any size are allowed to simply race up to any other dog regardless of it's size.

In this case I believe the owner of the Lab needs to teach the dog some manners, and should herself show some consideration to other owners.

But in an open-slather dog park, this is what happens, day in day out and it will never stop. Dogs run around and play, investigate other dogs etc. That is the nature of the parks. Big dogs, as stated in a previous post, can bounce off each other and take most knocks, a small dog cannot. Therefore why not have big dog parks and small dog parks - that surely would have to be a win win for everyone (expect maybe for the vets!!).

[rubiton]

My dog is older now and certainly CANNOT take knocks and being bounced off by a dog of similar size. Our local park is just a park but dogs are permitted offlead if under control. Young dogs are most likely to come bouncing up but dog law says you dont take down another dog and they still stop to sniff (even if its the in your face type of greeting) if the owner knows their dog is too bouncey and doesnt know how to interact they should be puttin git back on the lead when others appear or ensuring a proper introduction.

If you turn around and say little dogs can have a park here and big dogs there you will have owners of the opposite sized dogs unhappy as their preferred park is banned for them to use (eg if its empty technically they cannot use it if their dog is the wrong size).

[charli73]

I dislike when owners let their small dogs run and join in with the larger dogs playing.

My dog plays with a standard poodle, an airedale, lab and a x breed. Typical larger dog play involving lots of running. Occasionally SWFs will run over and join in and their owners oblivious to the risk. Its a long way to his feet for my boy and he has bowled a SWF over several times now while he is playing with the others - they get under his feet, he does not see them and it is risking a serious injury to my dog if he trips over however I get the dirty look when the small dog yelps.

This has happened to me a few times where a small dog with not much socialisation with larger dogs runs over to say hi and join in but then gets fearful and runs or caught under the larger dogs feet... I wish there was an easier way

All dogs need manners, training and introduced to many other breeds, smaller and larger than themselves...

I have a chihuahua at our off lead park who LOVES the bigger dogs and plays with my GSD most days, I wish it were this easy every day.

[Crisovar]

I actually find it rude that dogs of any size are allowed to simply race up to any other dog regardless of it's size.

In this case I believe the owner of the Lab needs to teach the dog some manners, and should herself show some consideration to other owners.

But in an open-slather dog park, this is what happens, day in day out and it will never stop. Dogs run around and play, investigate other dogs etc. That is the nature of the parks. Big dogs, as stated in a previous post, can bounce off each other and take most knocks, a small dog cannot. Therefore why not have big dog parks and small dog parks - that surely would have to be a win win for everyone (expect maybe for the vets!!).

Exactly why I don't use dog parks, too many rude dogs and rude owners.