Denmark To Ban 13 Breeds

[steve11]

I dont see that banning these breeds is any worse than banning any other breed. ALL BSL is totally ridiculous & indefensible.

[casowner]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

I have one of these breeds and generalisations of the breed and the type of people that own them are disgraceful and proves why ridiculous BSL laws are made. I would suggest rather than just Googling information that you take the time to try and meet responsible owners of these breeds. My "man eating killer" has been taken as a demonstration dog and handled by students, lives with a pom cross (and meets other dogs) and while I fully appreciate his breed tendencies and make allowances for them in our life to deem his breed as dangerous is very misguided.

I am very passionate about the chosen breed I have and if I just Googled information on the breed without bothering to contact people about them I would have missed out on the absolute joy of owning one of the most wonderful animals I have ever met. And yes I agree they are dangerous in the wrong hands but if you would prefer to take on a rotti and think the outcome would still be ok well goodluck with that. Me I prefer to analyse risks, observe behaviour and try to avoid getting put in that situation.

There will come a time when maybe rotti and dobes (and their crosses) may come up for BSL then perhaps people that own these breeds will suddenly not support BSL and you have previously stated that your rxd is untrustworthy around other small animals and would kill furry animals if given the chance. This is why I have said that dogs should be judged on their individual behaviour and that of their owners not just their breed full stop.

My neighbours cocker spaniels chase and try to kill my pets however my CASD is happy to have guinea pigs crawl on him. Yes I am responsible we have our farm gates padlocked and have signs stating that there is No Unauthorised Entry, Flock Guardian on Premises and when we have visitors he is removed from the area but any responsible dog owner should protect their home/visitors and animals regardless of their breed.

Edited June 7, 2010 by casowner

[Adnil444]

I dont see that banning these breeds is any worse than banning any other breed. ALL BSL is totally ridiculous & indefensible.

I agree to a point - the govt and local councils have their hands tied - the public want something done about these attacks and they cannot ban people owning these dogs, so the do the only thing left to them, ban the breed. They look at it like the gun ban - the less guns on the street, the less gun violence.

The general public wants something done and unless we can ban byb who in my opinion have created this mess, then BSL will be here to stay. Imagine how well the APBT would be if there were only registered breeders allowed to breed this dog - no bybs, no crosses, potential purchasers can be vetted etc etc. What a difference that breed would now be in.

I do think though that certain dogs, that on their breed characteristics has aggression towards humans as well as other animals, should be treated very carefully. The APBT should never be human aggressive and from my understanding, those that were, were culled. You can't deny that in the wrong hands, these dogs (not the APBT) could be a disaster.

[Adnil444]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

I have one of these breeds and generalisations of the breed and the type of people that own them are disgraceful and proves why ridiculous BSL laws are made. I would suggest rather than just Googling information that you take the time to try and meet responsible owners of these breeds. My "man eating killer" has been taken as a demonstration dog and handled by students, lives with a pom cross (and meets other dogs) and while I fully appreciate his breed tendencies and make allowances for them in our life to deem his breed as dangerous is very misguided.

I am very passionate about the chosen breed I have and if I just Googled information on the breed without bothering to contact people about them I would have missed out on the absolute joy of owning one of the most wonderful animals I have ever met. And yes I agree they are dangerous in the wrong hands but if you would prefer to take on a rotti and think the outcome would still be ok well goodluck with that. Me I prefer to analyse risks, observe behaviour and try to avoid getting put in that situation.

There will come a time when maybe rotti and dobes (and their crosses) may come up for BSL then perhaps people that own these breeds will suddenly not support BSL and you have previously stated that your rxd is untrustworthy around other small animals and would kill furry animals if given the chance. This is why I have said that dogs should be judged on their individual behaviour and that of their owners not just their breed full stop.

My neighbours cocker spaniels chase and try to kill my pets however my CASD is happy to have guinea pigs crawl on him. Yes I am responsible we have our farm gates padlocked and have signs stating that there is No Unauthorised Entry, Flock Guardian on Premises and when we have visitors he is removed from the area but any responsible dog owner should protect their home/visitors and animals regardless of their breed.

The articles that I have googled are from registered breeders of your breed from around the world - can't get much better info than a registered breeder.

I have never stated that my dog would kill another furry animal or is untrustworthy, I certainly keep an eye on her, but she is not a problem to other dogs - only the small ones that go for her while their owners stand back and think it is funny or cute. I do keep her on a lead at the dog park if there are little ones that go for the bigger dogs. (We were at the beach on Saturday and she walked through a huge flock of seagulls that didn't move away without flinching!)

I'm not stating that your are an irresponsible owner - quite the opposite in fact. I'm just stating that these dogs in the wrong hands in suburbia would be a disaster. Your dog is obviously well handled and you allow him to do the job that he was bred to do, which is great. The information that I have read from these registered breeders states that these dogs will accept family members and other animals that are part of their family (regardless of whether it is a guinea pig, rabbit, cat etc).

As I have stated several times in this thread, I don't have a problem with a responsible owner having these breeds, it's the irresponsible ones that will cause the problem, which will cause an issue with the breeds on the list.

The Danish govt must have had sound reason to ban the breeds on their list in their country.

[geo]

The Danish govt must have had sound reason to ban the breeds on their list in their country.

I thought i read that several people on the panel for banning breeds completely disagreed but the government went ahead and done it anyway..?

[bulldogz4eva]

Agree - I wish there will come a day when you can only purchase a puppy/dog from a registered breeder or through shelters/rescue organisations. I would love to see an end to the BYB, as I'm sure most of you all would too. These breeds I believe are fine in the right homes with the right owners, but what we will see are these dogs being bred by BYBs and then god knows what will happen to them. Once it is known among certain people that the "new best breed to get" is a boerbel, ovchartka etc then no doubt we will see tragic accidents happening in the community - the bybs will be out in force selling the "new dog of the moment" with no thought or knowledge about these breeds. I hope it won't happen, but I believe it will. Powerful breeds like these in irresponsible hands I'm sure all would agree is a disaster waiting to happen.

They are no more of a disaster waiting to happen than a Neoplitan Mastiff,rottweiler,malinois or fill in the blank in the wrong hands.NEWSFLASH ANKC registration doesnt make a dog less harmful.Selling strong tmperament dogs to people who cant handle them is the problem regardless of the breed.Breed disposition will always come into play but individual dogs and individual owners make headlines dont worry about the breed of dog.I could train a cattle dog to pull you into little pieces if thats what I wanted it for.When Governemnts get serious about the safety of the community they will target the other end of the leash until then nothing will change.

Edited June 7, 2010 by bulldogz4eva

[bulldogz4eva]

Interesting comment from the Danish Kennel Club. They say they were on the committee of 9 which had to agree if this banning of breeds should go into law. They report that only 3 members....all from various Gov agencies...voted yes. The remaining 6 (including the DKC) said no...and argued that the exististing laws which refer to all dogs should be tightened up (sound familiar?).

So the minority won out.

The parliamentary vote went through on Friday it was 54 for and only 4 against.Pretty sad.

Today the Danish Government will vote for or against the law proposal regarding BSL of 13 breeds.

If they get enough votes it will mean that it will be forbidden to own or breed 13 different breeds or mixes of these breeds in Denmark.

The law proposal will run from 1. of July 2010.

There will be a transfer period for the people who own these breeds, they will be able to keep their dogs but not sell them or have anyone else looking after them. The dogs must at all time be held in line and muzzle.

Professional breeders of the breeds on the list, will be able to continue their breeding program until June 30. 2015 but they will not be able to sell their puppies inside Denmark. All import will be forbidden of the 13 breeds.

The law will also state that from the age of 6 months the puppies of theese breeds must carry line and muzzle in public places.

Here is the 13 breeds on the BSL list:

Pitbull terrier

Tosa Inu

Kangal

Fila Brasileiro

Tornjak

Boerboel

American staffordshire terrier

Dogo argentino

American bulldog

Central asian ovtcharka

kaukasisk ovtcharka

Sarplaninac

South Russian ovtcharka

Furthermore the Government is talking about making an observations list containing more breeds.

[Jaxx'sBuddy]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

I have one of these breeds and generalisations of the breed and the type of people that own them are disgraceful and proves why ridiculous BSL laws are made. I would suggest rather than just Googling information that you take the time to try and meet responsible owners of these breeds. My "man eating killer" has been taken as a demonstration dog and handled by students, lives with a pom cross (and meets other dogs) and while I fully appreciate his breed tendencies and make allowances for them in our life to deem his breed as dangerous is very misguided.

I am very passionate about the chosen breed I have and if I just Googled information on the breed without bothering to contact people about them I would have missed out on the absolute joy of owning one of the most wonderful animals I have ever met. And yes I agree they are dangerous in the wrong hands but if you would prefer to take on a rotti and think the outcome would still be ok well goodluck with that. Me I prefer to analyse risks, observe behaviour and try to avoid getting put in that situation.

There will come a time when maybe rotti and dobes (and their crosses) may come up for BSL then perhaps people that own these breeds will suddenly not support BSL and you have previously stated that your rxd is untrustworthy around other small animals and would kill furry animals if given the chance. This is why I have said that dogs should be judged on their individual behaviour and that of their owners not just their breed full stop.

My neighbours cocker spaniels chase and try to kill my pets however my CASD is happy to have guinea pigs crawl on him. Yes I am responsible we have our farm gates padlocked and have signs stating that there is No Unauthorised Entry, Flock Guardian on Premises and when we have visitors he is removed from the area but any responsible dog owner should protect their home/visitors and animals regardless of their breed.

The articles that I have googled are from registered breeders of your breed from around the world - can't get much better info than a registered breeder.

I have never stated that my dog would kill another furry animal or is untrustworthy, I certainly keep an eye on her, but she is not a problem to other dogs - only the small ones that go for her while their owners stand back and think it is funny or cute. I do keep her on a lead at the dog park if there are little ones that go for the bigger dogs. (We were at the beach on Saturday and she walked through a huge flock of seagulls that didn't move away without flinching!)

I'm not stating that your are an irresponsible owner - quite the opposite in fact. I'm just stating that these dogs in the wrong hands in suburbia would be a disaster. Your dog is obviously well handled and you allow him to do the job that he was bred to do, which is great. The information that I have read from these registered breeders states that these dogs will accept family members and other animals that are part of their family (regardless of whether it is a guinea pig, rabbit, cat etc).

As I have stated several times in this thread, I don't have a problem with a responsible owner having these breeds, it's the irresponsible ones that will cause the problem, which will cause an issue with the breeds on the list.

The Danish govt must have had sound reason to ban the breeds on their list in their country.

one day none of us will be able to own any dogs, have you thought about that? because bsl is not based on logic at all and for each web site that you can quote i could find another that disproves what you found.

i am all for responsible ownership but banning breeds will not fix that

[casowner]

The articles that I have googled are from registered breeders of your breed from around the world - can't get much better info than a registered breeder.

I have never stated that my dog would kill another furry animal or is untrustworthy, I certainly keep an eye on her, but she is not a problem to other dogs - only the small ones that go for her while their owners stand back and think it is funny or cute. I do keep her on a lead at the dog park if there are little ones that go for the bigger dogs. (We were at the beach on Saturday and she walked through a huge flock of seagulls that didn't move away without flinching!)

I'm not stating that your are an irresponsible owner - quite the opposite in fact. I'm just stating that these dogs in the wrong hands in suburbia would be a disaster. Your dog is obviously well handled and you allow him to do the job that he was bred to do, which is great. The information that I have read from these registered breeders states that these dogs will accept family members and other animals that are part of their family (regardless of whether it is a guinea pig, rabbit, cat etc).

As I have stated several times in this thread, I don't have a problem with a responsible owner having these breeds, it's the irresponsible ones that will cause the problem, which will cause an issue with the breeds on the list.

The Danish govt must have had sound reason to ban the breeds on their list in their country.

QUOTE

"Hi Whipitgood, what a horrible thing to have witnessed. It's hard to imagine that living and growing up together that this can happen. I've had Great Danes in the past, one had a high prey drive and the other 3 didn't and they all got on well with our cat - she was there first and was the boss. My new dog that I rescued (RottiexDobe) also has a high prey drive and she can't be trusted with small furry animals - the cats next door fascinate her, however, thankfully they don't come into my backyard, but sometimes they will be in my frontyard, but my dogs are only out front on lead (either to go for a walk or to get in the car). It does worry me though, that if the cats went into my backyard and my girl went for them. I'm hoping the cats do have some sense and will stay away.

I hope your other cat is ok. It's hard to stop something that is naturally in them. Where I take my dogs for their morning walk, they were both offlead, however now I keep my girl on lead as there have been a few rabbits and she chased a feral cat. I don't like her chasing other animals and I certainly don't want her to catch another animal either, cause I'm pretty sure she would kill it if given the chance. She is now on lead for her morning walks. "

Forum: General Dog Discussion · Post Preview: #4533360 · Replies: 17 · Views: 529

Sorry to disagree but it seems to me that you are "pretty sure" she would kill another animal. Most dogs with high prey drive will but it comes down to knowing your dogs behaviour and managing it which it seems you do as you are aware of her behaviour.

Regarding your comments about the Registered Breeders of my chosen breed I think it is very responsible that they focus on the negative breed traits as well as the positive so people are fully informed about what they are getting into. I also believe that these Registered Breeders would be very selective on who they sell puppies too.

If the CASD was a dangerous animal, and it could be considered so in the wrong hands (same as just about any other large breed) and there are numbers of them in Australia they should be on Bite Statistics. What I mean is if they apparently have a higher propensity for aggression then surely in that thinking someone should have been severely injured or killed by one. I know of a CASD that was in the RSPCA a few years ago and the shelter staff thought he was a lovely dog and had no clue what he was until they checked his microchip. Going by this and the fact that they are supposed to be so aggressive with strangers why then was one so placid and easy to handle in a suburban shelter situation? I am not saying for a minute that my dog is a gentle old soul that would allow anyone to enter his property, but I know his behaviour and it is my responsibility to minimise risks so that I do not fail him or anyone else that has a legitimate reason for being on my property.

I believe that BSL is designed simply to appease the public so that they feel safer knowing that these dangerous dogs are being outlawed but the simple fact is that they are punishing the responsible owners and breeders that are passionate about their chosen breed. Meanwhile the people that are responsible for owning the dogs that cause the issues simply move onto another breed or get restricted breeds through unsavoury sources.

I mean no disrespect to you at all but I for one will stand up and defend my breed as a responsible, passionate and dedicated owner of an animal who has brought me, my family and my property peace of mind and companionship.

Edited June 7, 2010 by casowner

[mita]

You can't deny that in the wrong hands, these dogs (not the APBT) could be a disaster.

Same could be said about any dog with the size & mass to do harm. And even that's relative....a smaller dog is capable of savaging a baby's or small child's face.

Every piece of decent research (which very few people seem to look at), from a variety of countries, points to human culpability from breeding decisions (or lack of) thro' to early raising, then training and management. And they've even sifted out characteristics of those humans most likely to finish up with a dog whose aggression can't be controlled.

The logical thing is to follow up on that & do something about the humans.

Obviously the majority on the Danish committee which had to discuss the banning of 13 breeds, thought that. Because 6 out of 9 on that committee opted for tightening the laws re human management of dogs. With which every piece of rigorous research would agree. Especially as such an approach would cover all dogs. It was the remaining 3 representatives of government departments who opted for the breed banning law.

Just out of interest, a rigorous survey of dog was done in northern Italy....by the uni of Milan as a result of public concern about dog bites/attacks. The largest dog 'group' they found with aggression over the boundaries of safety....was mixed breeds (44 %)..

Edited June 8, 2010 by mita

[BJean]

Are people (and I use the term loosely) using the livestock guardian breeds for dog fighting, or are they employed as guard dogs?

These livestock guardian breeds are commonly used for the Dog Fighting Festival held each year in Afghanistan. This festival draws huge crowds from all over that part of the world (Russia, Pakistan etc) and they bet on the dogs (which are mainly the Ovtcharka breeds). Very sad and the govt hasn't outlawed this barbaric tradition. Children are watching this so what hope does the next generation have?

LGD breeds are used for dog fighting because intellectually and economically challenged men (most often young males with nothing better to do with their time) have poor understanding of what/why dogs fight

and thinks it helps them with their perception of tough and whatever else etc blah blah

LGD breeds are crossed with other breeds because bigger dogs are tougher dogs and how cool do those dogs look uncontrolled at the end of a leash with pithy human on th eother end blowing in the wind... hmm....

Mainly the ovcharka breeds -

oh which ones?

The pure bred ones or the cross bred ones; purebred lineage of these dogs are not easy to find in certain populations.

And just because youtube says it's so, doesn't mean it actually is.

Edited June 8, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

Google is not your friend if you dont have the intelligence and perspective to process the information that you are given.

Probably in your instance, it is consequence of too much information

and not enough explanation or understanding.

I read many assumptions, built one atop of the other, with ample fairytale thrown in to fill in the blanks.

There was a thread somewherre in BSL, about the wording of the Fila breed standard; different content to here, but similar concept. ie: human aggression and what they means wrt guardian breeds.

NB: if your farm is in victoria and someone entered your farm despite the signage and warnings of danger, there would be no law suit if your dog was to attack a trespasser. thankyou.

Edited June 8, 2010 by lilli

[BJean]

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

Just noticed you live in NSW -

I dont want to scare the bejesus out of you

but there are quite a few Ovcharkas living fine and well in suburban and rural NSW.

[Adnil444]

Are people (and I use the term loosely) using the livestock guardian breeds for dog fighting, or are they employed as guard dogs?

These livestock guardian breeds are commonly used for the Dog Fighting Festival held each year in Afghanistan. This festival draws huge crowds from all over that part of the world (Russia, Pakistan etc) and they bet on the dogs (which are mainly the Ovtcharka breeds). Very sad and the govt hasn't outlawed this barbaric tradition. Children are watching this so what hope does the next generation have?

LGD breeds are used for dog fighting because intellectually and economically challenged men (most often young males with nothing better to do with their time) have poor understanding of what/why dogs fight

and thinks it helps them with their perception of tough and whatever else etc blah blah

LGD breeds are crossed with other breeds because bigger dogs are tougher dogs and how cool do those dogs look uncontrolled at the end of a leash with pithy human on th eother end blowing in the wind... hmm....

Mainly the ovcharka breeds -

oh which ones?

The pure bred ones or the cross bred ones; purebred lineage of these dogs are not easy to find in certain populations.

And just because youtube says it's so, doesn't mean it actually is.

Agree with you - and yes the internet descriptions of these dog fighting festivals doesn't state if they are pure or not, probably a mixed bag. I don't know how to control this macho perception thing apart from govts and councils totally cracking down on byb and puppy farms and the only way someone can obtain a dog is through a registered breeder (where checks can be made and full information is given) or via a pound/rescue site and also ensuring owners have a licence. The bybs have a lot to answer for with their indiscriminate breeding, poor knowledge and totally in it for a quick dollar. The end result is a dog that will no doubt live probably a life without stimulation, without exercise, without socialisation (though I'm sure some are lucky) or will get dumped and maybe a chance that it is rehomed.

[Adnil444]

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

Just noticed you live in NSW -

I dont want to scare the bejesus out of you

but there are quite a few Ovcharkas living fine and well in suburban and rural NSW.

I'm sure there are, and if they have responsible owners, that's great. I want to see owners of any dog breed as being responsible. I'm talking of the dogs that are not kept by responsible owners - what happens to them? What would happen to your breed of dog if just left in a yard, no training, no socialisation, no stimulation, no exercise - I'm sure this happens to so many dogs out there and the frustration they must feel would be overwhelming.

[Adnil444]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

Google is not your friend if you dont have the intelligence and perspective to process the information that you are given.

Probably in your instance, it is consequence of too much information

and not enough explanation or understanding.

I read many assumptions, built one atop of the other, with ample fairytale thrown in to fill in the blanks.

There was a thread somewherre in BSL, about the wording of the Fila breed standard; different content to here, but similar concept. ie: human aggression and what they means wrt guardian breeds.

NB: if your farm is in victoria and someone entered your farm despite the signage and warnings of danger, there would be no law suit if your dog was to attack a trespasser. thankyou.

Point taken, but explain then why these registered breeders state on their own websites about the history and their own dogs that aggression towards humans and other animals (other than their own family) is commonplace and is part of their characteristics? (Similar to those that say an APBT has gameness). That they must have strong (not necessarily physically) owners, they are not for everyone and only certain people should be keeping them.

Also, there could be a lawsuit (and there was from memory some years back now but not in Vic about a trespasser but he was illiterate and couldn't read the signs and ended up in an accident (it wasn't a dog attack).

I wonder why the Danish govt has banned them?

[BJean]

Most breeds in the wrong hands can be dangerous, I do not feel it should be breed biased, owners are the issue. My CASD is much more trustworthy with stock than my old GSD was, my pom cross is much more fear based with my son than my CASD.

Yes I do consider myself a responsible owner of all breeds that I have owned but do not feel that breed bias is fair

x2

Perhaps you should google the breed temperaments of some of these breeds - one website states that the Caucasian Ovcharka to have agression to people and other other animals (the family and the animals in the family ok) but visitors to your house beware. The sites also state over and over again - not the breed for anyone that doesn't have experience with large powerful breeds, must socialise them more so than other breeds if you are going to have one that isn't dog aggressive.

While I don't want to single out other breeds, have you had a look at what these dogs can do in the wrong hands - I know you will all say that any dog can be dangerous in the wrong hands, I agree, but I would rather face a rottie than one of these in danger mode. It's not the people on these sites that are irresponsible. Can you imagine one of these dogs, purchased from a byb, put in a yard, never socialised, rarely or never exercised - what do you think will happen to that dog? We are not talking about a medium or large dog, we are talking about a giant breed with extreme power. I don't see a part in suburban life for these dogs. As a guardian dog of stock where you know that no person will ever get attacked, then ok. My family has a farm, and we have had numerous times people wander onto our land (which is clearly marked Private Property) - what if we had one of these dogs - I'm sure they would attack and the result would not be pretty (plus probably a large law suit to follow).

I'm just stating that I would hate to see these dogs in the wrong hands and I don't feel that they deserve to live in suburbia.

Google is not your friend if you dont have the intelligence and perspective to process the information that you are given.

Probably in your instance, it is consequence of too much information

and not enough explanation or understanding.

I read many assumptions, built one atop of the other, with ample fairytale thrown in to fill in the blanks.

There was a thread somewherre in BSL, about the wording of the Fila breed standard; different content to here, but similar concept. ie: human aggression and what they means wrt guardian breeds.

NB: if your farm is in victoria and someone entered your farm despite the signage and warnings of danger, there would be no law suit if your dog was to attack a trespasser. thankyou.

Point taken, but explain then why these registered breeders state on their own websites about the history and their own dogs that aggression towards humans and other animals (other than their own family) is commonplace and is part of their characteristics? (Similar to those that say an APBT has gameness). That they must have strong (not necessarily physically) owners, they are not for everyone and only certain people should be keeping them.

Also, there could be a lawsuit (and there was from memory some years back now but not in Vic about a trespasser but he was illiterate and couldn't read the signs and ended up in an accident (it wasn't a dog attack).

I wonder why the Danish govt has banned them?

As I said, aggression and breed characteristics as described above is not the problem but your interpretation about what that means.

I dont know why the Danish banned them. Most likely based on extrapolations drawn from ignorance and fear.

Maybe they watched youtube,

who knows?

[geo]

Point taken, but explain then why these registered breeders state on their own websites about the history and their own dogs that aggression towards humans and other animals (other than their own family) is commonplace and is part of their characteristics? (Similar to those that say an APBT has gameness). That they must have strong (not necessarily physically) owners, they are not for everyone and only certain people should be keeping them.

Also, there could be a lawsuit (and there was from memory some years back now but not in Vic about a trespasser but he was illiterate and couldn't read the signs and ended up in an accident (it wasn't a dog attack).

I wonder why the Danish govt has banned them?

Politicians ban breeds because they are ignorant to what really causes dog attacks, they want to be seen to be doing something about it to their constituents because they are too lazy to do the hard yards and fix social issues and bring about proper change in animal ownership.

If only all websites read these dogs are only suitable for committed, strong dog owners, as all breeds need the same attention, but rarely does it happen.

Having gameness isn't a problem, having people with a "don't care attitude" is.

[doit4thedogz]

Sigh...

The Ovtcharkas and Kangals now?? So we're moving now from the breeds that have a reputation for being of fighting anscestry into the mountain types? What's next? Bernese? St Bernards?

Then which Group do they start on next...?

edit - sorry, it's late and I can't spell

The Ovtcharkas (which quite a few fall under this breed) are known for their very aggressive nature. I've seen footage of these dogs and not only can they aggressive (towards humans as well as other dogs), but the sheer size of them can well be a recipe for disaster. They must have some stats in their country for this ban.

The Boerbel another interesting one. Several of my South African friends (who are dog lovers and owners) cannot believe they are allowed in this country - they have said that time and time again this breed makes the front page and TV news because they have attacked people, and usually members of their own family (of course that doesn't mean all will by any means), but just shows that these large powerful breeds in the wrong hands can be a disaster.

What we don't want here are the irresponsible dog owners picking these breeds. I'm all for responsible dog owners having these breeds.

Large powerful 'working' breeds are a disaster in the wrong hands.

In some parts of the world no-nonsense large powerful working breeds are required. I met someone from sth American and he told me that Cane corsos and Filas were the most popular guard dogs in his country, a place where they carry knives and guns around.

[doit4thedogz]

Sigh...

The Ovtcharkas and Kangals now?? So we're moving now from the breeds that have a reputation for being of fighting anscestry into the mountain types? What's next? Bernese? St Bernards?

Then which Group do they start on next...?

edit - sorry, it's late and I can't spell

The Ovtcharkas (which quite a few fall under this breed) are known for their very aggressive nature. I've seen footage of these dogs and not only can they aggressive (towards humans as well as other dogs), but the sheer size of them can well be a recipe for disaster. They must have some stats in their country for this ban.

The Boerbel another interesting one. Several of my South African friends (who are dog lovers and owners) cannot believe they are allowed in this country - they have said that time and time again this breed makes the front page and TV news because they have attacked people, and usually members of their own family (of course that doesn't mean all will by any means), but just shows that these large powerful breeds in the wrong hands can be a disaster.

What we don't want here are the irresponsible dog owners picking these breeds. I'm all for responsible dog owners having these breeds.

Hmmmm.......not much else to say really other than my experience with Boerboels is the complete opposite. Again, why we are extremely selective on who owns this breed. Why we continue with the appraisal system of which the largest scores pertain to temprement then health. Why, if the dog doesn't pass its appraisal, won't be elegible for registration. Still doesn't mean your BYB can't go out and breed, but we are doing the best we can. Of all the owners and breeders that i've had dealings with in this country, all has been positive.

My experince with them is that they are very protective of their owners. They have great working abilities that are lost in most mastiff breeds, especially in Australia. They are large powerful and athletic for their size. They aren't pussy cats. I think the breeders are doing a great job, not peddaling them out.