moosmum Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 Poodle mum, No forum rules have been broken here.I don't promote designer or cross breds in,just an opinion that perhaps ethics can exsist out side of pedigree circles. I fully and whole heartedly support ethical,registered breeders who are genuinly dedicated to their breeds and their improvement. But cross breeds WILL always exsist and dog breeds have been created through the ages to fill perceived needs of society.I think to halt this entirely now,never having any more new breeds could actualy be dangerous for the future of dogs. There are breeds being lost as gene pooles shrink. It seems the queen is a very knowledgeable and respected dog person and I don't think all that should be null and void because she chose to cross. Alexhegyesi, I agree that the majority of back yard breeders deserve the bad rep.The term seems a very loose one though,and open to interpretation.Some are labeled simply because they breed small scale and don't show dogs themselves,though they may be very dedicated to their breed. Times are changing though and people are becomming better educated,hopfully the general public are also capable of learning or we are in trouble. I think there is too much division in the dog world and legislators are taking advantage of these divisions.To me,it important that we realise any one is capable of being ethical,its a matter of encouraging that rather than attacking every one because the end result is looking pretty ugly for pet ownership,period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlemum Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 (edited) Poodle mum, No forum rules have been broken here.I don't promote designer or cross breds in,just an opinion that perhaps ethics can exsist out side of pedigree circles. I fully and whole heartedly support ethical,registered breeders who are genuinly dedicated to their breeds and their improvement. But cross breeds WILL always exsist and dog breeds have been created through the ages to fill perceived needs of society.I think to halt this entirely now,never having any more new breeds could actualy be dangerous for the future of dogs. There are breeds being lost as gene pooles shrink. It seems the queen is a very knowledgeable and respected dog person and I don't think all that should be null and void because she chose to cross. Forum rule no 4: No promotion of cross breeds / designer dogs This site has nothing against cross breeds (most of us have had one at some stage in our life), however we are against the promotion of them as being superior to the purebred dog and people cashing in on the 'designer dog' craze. We also ask that you refrain from unnecessary designer dog discussion. (ie discussion that has no real purpose other than to express dismay at the latest 'cross breed' you saw (or read about)). Sure, we all know they are out there, but we prefer to concentrate on discussing the pure bred dog (ANKC recognised breeds). IMO, saying you "don't have a problem" with BYB's is tantamount to promoting crossbreeds. I can assure you that those of us who take the time & trouble to be registered breeders and raise & sell our puppies in an ethical manner most certainly DO have a problem with BYBs Edited December 12, 2010 by poodlemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 I personaly don't have a problem with backyard breeders anyway... As long as they are well looked after,raised and homed,don't have any in bred health problems and aren't promoted as a "designer breed" whats the big deal? If some one sees qualities in these dogs that they want,fine. To have only pure bred,pedigree dogs in the world would lead to bigger problems that exsist now. Not every one wants to show,breed and keep dogs only in the manner proscribed by those dedicated to keeping their specific chosen breeds. Surely it realy comes down to welfare,and I don't believe back yard breeder always means unethical. I actually have a huge problem with backyard breeders. I've not met one yet that I believe is ethical. That's not to say that all registered breeders are ethical either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripley Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) I remember years ago, Princess Anne was fined after her dog attacked a couple of kids. She went to court over it, first Royal to do so I think. and then the same dog went on to kill one of her mother's corgis eta: Found article from the BBC's site here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3345585.stm Anne's dog kills Queen's corgi "One of the Queen's corgis has been put down after being savaged by an English bull terrier owned by Princess Anne. The attack is thought to have happened on Monday, when the corgis ran out to greet the Princess Royal as she arrived at Sandringham for Christmas. Princess Anne was convicted under the Dangerous Dogs Act last year after the same dog attacked two children. BBC royal correspondent Nicholas Witchell said the future of the dog, called Dotty, is now being reviewed. Oldest and dearest The Queen is said to be devastated by the death of her corgi. It is thought it was Pharos, one of her oldest and dearest pets. Although Buckingham Palace is not saying anything about the incident formally, the Queen is reported to have joined her daughter and royal footmen in trying to separate the dogs. But Pharos had been badly injured and had to be put down yesterday. The Queen's love for her corgis is well known and they were last seen in public milling around the feet of England's World Cup rugby stars at a Buckingham Palace reception earlier this month. Princess Anne appeared before magistrates last November and pleaded guilty to a charge that one of her dogs attacked two children in Windsor Great Park. In that attack Dotty left a 12-year-old boy with a bite on the collarbone and two bites to the left leg. Princess Anne told a court the dog was good natured Anne was fined £500 and ordered to pay £500 compensation to the children and £148 in court costs. She was told to organise training for Dotty, to keep her on a lead in public places and that the dog could be put down if there were similar attacks. The children's parents were angry that the princess escaped with a fine and Dotty was not put down. They said: "We do not think justice has been done. The dog is still free and is a danger to society." The penalties for the offence can include a £5,000 fine, six months imprisonment and the animal being destroyed. The princess' defence said Dotty was a good natured dog "lacking in malice". Re the Royals and their animal charities, Prince Charles is helping protect the Wandering Albatross for the RSPB (Royal Society for the Protection of Birds) and has written to governments in other countries about reducing the number of fatalities of this beautiful creature on long line fishing boats, he also narrated a documentary on their plight. Edited December 14, 2010 by Ripley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURNSTEIN Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 My understanding is that the first mating between the corgi and the daschund was accidental but the Royal Family liked the combination so had more litters I have always believed this cross mating was Princess Margaret choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DURNSTEIN Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 In the 2006 movie “The Queen”, Queen Elizabeth was depicted with her Labradors while in Scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quickasyoucan Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Nice as the queen is (and I can say this because I am originally British ) she hasn't produced great human stock herself, so I am not sure about her human "planned matings" Wouldn't be surprised if there were still a few mentally subnormal royals hidden away somewhere just like the good ol days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 surely her continuing to xbreed after the original "accident" would be in violation of the COE for the UK KC and she risks having her prefix suspended? Would be interesting to see if someone wrote and protested what would happen...I'm guessing nothing...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheilaheel02 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Surely there is an ethical conflict of interest here somewhere..... If I elected myself Queen Sh*t from T*rd Island and started cross breeding ASTCD's and ACD's for their amazing drive, intelligence and superior guarding ability - let's give them a wanky name like "Blue Steelers" for arguments sake - would I be subjected to a public DOL stoning? Hmm, possibly a beheading is more in context. I should be exempt because I'm titled....well OK, not really, but my dogs are in obedience and agility and they are very well cared for. Quite aside from that I have a charitable nature because I was President of ACD rescue for 12 or 13 years. All good right S Edited December 14, 2010 by Sheilaheel02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Maybe she did start off with a few 'byb' litters but as her interested and love of dogs grew, she learnt about pedigrees, better breeding practices, dog sports and got her prefix to do it the right way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlemum Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Maybe she did start off with a few 'byb' litters but as her interested and love of dogs grew, she learnt about pedigrees, better breeding practices, dog sports and got her prefix to do it the right way? OMG - don't say that! You know there are people on here who get their jollies believing the worst of people - how upset will they be if this is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleuri Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Maybe she did start off with a few 'byb' litters but as her interested and love of dogs grew, she learnt about pedigrees, better breeding practices, dog sports and got her prefix to do it the right way? don't say that! You know there are people on here who get their jollies believing the worst of people - how upset will they be if this is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Hmmm... inbreed your family, but crossbreed your dogs...T. ROFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 You should all be aware that backyard breeding is completely different in Europe (which Great Britain is part of, despite liking to think that they are not) Firstly, the countries have hundreds or thousands of years of history behind them, not like Usa and Australia that are a couple of hundred years old. Through history, everyone has always gone to a backyard breeder to get their dog, either people who thought their dog had nice working traits and crossed it with the neighbour's dog because it was also a nice working dog, to produce more working dogs. They would keep one themselves and give or sell some to the neighbours. But most commonly, before desexing was even thought of, there would be oops litters, and people would give or sell puppies to whoever wanted them. Thusly, getting a puppy from a neighbour or whoever has cute puppies goes back hundreds or thousands of years, it's always been how people get their dogs. Secondly, Europe doesn't have a big dog show culture. People with purebreds usually don't bother with shows. Dog sports or herding trials etc are much more popular. Thirdly, you can't buy puppies or kittens in pet stores in a lot of European countries. Fourthly, some European countries still have bans on desexing dogs for non-medical reasons, so there are more oops litters to begin with. In other words, byb's in Europe are not the big deal they are here. Most of the people whose dogs have puppies never set out to breed their dogs, nor make money off of them. So the attitude towards it is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeckoTree Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 (edited) Aussie culture toward dogs probably up to the mid/late 80's was the same imo. I think that was when designer names were just starting, instead of saying a mutts a mutt or a X is a X. all these ridiculous names started appearing. Edited December 14, 2010 by -GT- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Europe doesn't have a big dog show culture? Where did you hear that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Europe doesn't have a big dog show culture? Where did you hear that one? probably forgot about crufts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Europe doesn't have a big dog show culture? Where did you hear that one? probably forgot about crufts and the euro winner show or the world shows Don't suppose Australia holds shows with over 20,000 entries?? Most of your champ shows are no bigger then the open shows in the UK Seems to me it is Australia that doesn't have a big dog show culture!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 Fourthly, some European countries still have bans on desexing dogs for non-medical reasons, so there are more oops litters to begin with. Which countries are these? I've never heard of any legal bans like that. It is true that in many European countries, far fewer dogs are desexed. And many obedience & agility clubs etc just train around it - if the dog is on heat, you're just expected to be able to control your male around it. Very different to here, where your on-heat dog is practically on house arrest in case she disrupts the neighbourhood. When they do desex female dogs, they also tend to just take the ovaries, not the uterus as well. Rather different to here or in the U.S.A, although I think that will slowly catch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrietta Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 When they do desex female dogs, they also tend to just take the ovaries, not the uterus as well. Rather different to here or in the U.S.A, although I think that will slowly catch on. That's interesting, Staranais. What are the differences in health outcomes for the dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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