"your Dog Is Not Welcome On This Beach"

[Dxenion]

We live in the Rockingham Council (south of Perth) and have noticed signs going up all over the place stating "Your dog is not welcome on this beach. On the spot fines of $100 apply". The sign features a picture of a dog inside a circle with a red line through it.

Apart from the fact that I feel the wording is quite rude, how would the council enforce it? After all, it is saying your dog (not cat, horse or any other animal you chose to bring to the beach - and yes I have seen someone take their cat for a walk on the beach!) is not welcome - it doesn't say your dog is not allowed.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone received a fine on a beach with the sign and challenged it on the above grounds. I'd also be interested to know if swimming a dog back and forth along a boat ramp would be considered as the dog being on the beach?

[felix]

Rude or not, ranger could fine you. You may argue the wording, but you would lose (IMO of course).

In my opinion the dog being in the water would still get you fined, but I may be wrong.

There must be a dog designated beach in Rockingham that you can use and not test the Council's determination in getting dogs off the beach.

Edited December 20, 2010 by felix

[Dxenion]

I raised this issue after a discussion with a number of local dog owners who are upset over the placement of at least 10 of these signs just in the last couple of days at one particular beach access point. The question was raised (and actively debated) on the legality of the wording as 'not welcome' does not legally equate to 'not allowed', therefore you could have a dog on the beach as it doesn't legally say you can't.

It was also debated that the boat ramp is not part of the beach but a feature over the beach (a ramp built over the shore to allow the movement of a boat to and from the water) - a valid point raised by a law student. It certainly got us all thinking because the ramp is a separate structure, governed by separate legislation and laws for the one in question do not restrict access to dogs. Therefore technically, if the dog is on or swimming over the boat ramp, it is not technically on the beach.

Yes there are other dog beaches but it is frustrating to have the one at the end of your street suddenly closed to dogs, necessitating a 20 minute drive to the nearest one with access for a person with a disability.

I am hoping that others around Australia may have come across this particular sign and can advise if they had any issues with the council when their dogs have been on the beach or a boat ramp and if so, what did they do about it.

Felix, I appreciate your input and agree with you that on the spot, I would probably lose the argument with the Ranger but if I took the fine to court to challenge the wording, I think I would be onto something. I haven't taken the dog since the signs went up but would like to think that if the council didn't want dogs on the beach, they would put up signs saying 'your dog is not allowed on this beach' to remove any ambiguous meaning.

[sandgrubber]

If you don't like what your council is doing, get involved . . . or at least talk to the people who represent you to find out what is going on.

If the k9 community doesn't get involved, it's sure to get increasingly constrained.

[raz]

There was a rather spirited discussion on something similar in the news subforum a little while back. I agree with sandgrubber - either get involved to make some changes or at the very least, ring up your council and have a civilised chat.

The upshot of the story about the defendant in the news subforum was he lost, and had to pay Council's costs. Do you want to clog up the court list for a day only to risk receiving a hefty bill?

Actually I've just had a look at your council website. Unless I'm going blind, there's absolutely nothing on there about where you can and cant take your dog. Might be an idea to ring them up and ask for the regulations just as a starting point.

[raz]

The sign features a picture of a dog inside a circle with a red line through it.

Just on that point - That's a generic prohibited dog sign. I'd think you'd be pushing poop uphill with a sharp stick if you wanted to take them on. The wording is irrelevant (still a bit rude, though, but maybe dog owners have been flaunting the regulation and someone at council spat the dummy)

[Diva]

The sign features a picture of a dog inside a circle with a red line through it.

Just on that point - That's a generic prohibited dog sign. I'd think you'd be pushing poop uphill with a sharp stick if you wanted to take them on. The wording is irrelevant (still a bit rude, though, but maybe dog owners have been flaunting the regulation and someone at council spat the dummy)

Yep, I think the symbol alone is enough, even with no words it would be enough.

[raz]

And the $100 on the spot fines apply makes it pretty obvious that if you take a dog on the beach, you're going to get stung. Flaunting it to test it will just be viewed as arrogance and quite frankly, it really stuffs it up for other dog owners. Council obviously doesnt want dogs on that beach so you're just going to have to take yours to a beach where they are welcome. 20 minutes isnt far. I've got a 1 hour drive to get to a dog beach - no biggy.

[Staranais]

It's a rude way of saying it, but I think it's pretty clear what they mean.

[auir]

you know what i find weird, i live in Wollongong, our council recently changed the rules for dogs on the beach so things are alot better but one thing that always frustrates me is

there is a couple of people that have horses in my area, they take them down the beach for a walk and run through the water and on the sand, now they crap in waters edge and on the sand, but do they have to pick it up?? (fair enough there would be like a buckets worth). My issue is do people write into the papers complaining about this when there is 100% failure rate to clean up after the horse, nooo, they ring or write to the paper to complain about dogs which i find generally 99% of people around my area are responsible and pick up after there dogs

end of rant for the day ;)

[Hairy Maclary]

I saw those signs - the wording is irritating, but the intent is absolutely clear.

[Golden Rules]

Are you sure they are council signs and not some zealot wanting to keep the beach clear of dogs? Some people go to all sorts of lengths when they feel particularly strongly about something.

[megan_]

I think the wording is deliberately offensive because when something is written politely most people ignore it.

I have no problem about dog-free areas - not everyone likes dogs and people should be able to visit the beach without being scared.

[W Sibs]

I think the wording is deliberately offensive because when something is written politely most people ignore it.

I have no problem about dog-free areas - not everyone likes dogs and people should be able to visit the beach without being scared.

I think so too.

[Souff]

;) The council officers probably thought they were putting a polite message on those signs.

What they probably wanted to say was "Dogs are BANNED from this beach!".

[Hairy Maclary]

Are you sure they are council signs and not some zealot wanting to keep the beach clear of dogs? Some people go to all sorts of lengths when they feel particularly strongly about something.

Definitely council signs.

[conztruct]

I think the wording is deliberately offensive because when something is written politely most people ignore it.

I have no problem about dog-free areas - not everyone likes dogs and people should be able to visit the beach without being scared.

I get this and agree that not everyone likes dogs or wants to have them around. But do you think they can also put up signs saying that also unwelcome are:

Obnoxious children

Parents who change their kids nappies and leave them on the beach

Vehicles

People wearing ill-fitting or inappropriate beachware (blerk!)

...and the list could go on. Ok I know I'm being smart and people have a right to be there but all of these things happen (which I find quite offensive and spoil my enjoyment of the beach) but the council aren't erecting signs to this effect. I think the dogs bans are a knee-jerk reaction to people who have loose dogs on the beach running amok rather than the majority of responsible owners who are simply taking their dogs for a walk. It just seems that enough whingers who want their way have lobbied those in power to bend to their will.

I'm really going to have to start work on my lobbying about unruly, uncontrollable, noisy, destructive children in shopping centres whose parents refuse to do anything to address the behaviour............

[raz]

I think the dogs bans are a knee-jerk reaction to people who have loose dogs on the beach running amok rather than the majority of responsible owners who are simply taking their dogs for a walk.

Absolutely. I totally agree with you and as people on this forum keep saying, it's the responsible dog owners who get shafted every single time the irresponsible few decide to just blatantly ignore a regulation. It just brings in more regulations.

[Keira&Phoenix]

The worst part is if they decide to make all non off leash beaches also dog free zones the people who just want to walk their dog on the beach without being disturbed by off leash dogs or people who may have DA dogs who want to give their dog a nice beach walk but who have to keep their dogs away from off leash dogs, do not have anywhere to go and cannot then also enjoy the beach.

Punish the irresponsible owners who are not cleaning up after their dogs and let their dogs hassle people and leave those of us who do the right thing alone.

Sadly Australia is becoming a more and more restrictive place to own a dog

[emery]

Drive to the allowable beach as otherwise it could become worse fro your dogs.

as a thought though why would you want to swim your dog from the boat ramp?? fuel, grease and oil from the boats would get into your dogs coat