SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 And I can assure you if I was a registered breeder doing the right thing I would want to be part of an org which was not associated IN ANY WAY with puppy farms or Byb's. I would be working very hard to make sure that I could distinguish myself as the breeder doing the right thing by dogs and pups from Puppy farmers/bybs And the way to do that is to distinguish yourself from them by your words and actions. Not by flashy websites, by knowledge, care for your breed, knowledge of your breed, consideration and duty of care to any prospective buyers, and ongoing service and consideration. I agree with all of what Jed said apart from the website bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 showdog, this is an honest question, how do we, as puppy buyers differentiate good ankc breeders (which i agree are definitely out there) from the dodgy ones?i think this is the issue here, it seems a bit hit and miss for puppy buyers who don;t have a lot of experience of registered breeders It's called research, if more puppy buyers bothered to research there would be a lot less getting ripped off and screwed over. I have this written on my site - Whilst you are looking at purchasing a loving companion, think like your buying a car. Truth is people spend more time finding that perfect car, then they do when purchasing a puppy. Ask questions, visit more then one breeder, view paperwork and ask around. You can always get a new car bought through buyer error, but you can't replace that beloved puppy because you didn't do your research first. Ask many questions and do your research. I get many emails from people who ask advice etc saying they read my page - questions to ask breeders and things to look out for, yet they still buy from a BYB. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 sway the reason i ask this is because whilst researching breeders i came across a couple of ankc registered breeders who talked the talk but were quite suspect. now i am an experienced person and i nearly got sucked in. research is fine but if breeders are out to deliberately deceive it is very difficult for puppy buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Ive got a real easy solution for it - when you are looking for a new puppy or recycled dog go to an MDBA breeder or rescue member. ;) Trouble is Ive no doubt registered breeders who are not our members wont see that as a viable solution. ;) Out of curiosity are you in favor of ethically registered ANKC breeders or pushing an agenda for MDBA members only? Look - I came here yesterday to start this thread in support of registered breeders - all registered breeders as a group. That was because most people missed a deleted thread which raised issues regarding confusion about the term registered. Of course Im in favour of ethically registered breeders but Im also pro MDBA and I dont see why anyone cares if I think they are O.K. too. Edited January 9, 2011 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Rebanne doesnt get emails anymore as she is unfinacial this not getting emails has only happened recently though as I hadn't noticed they had stopped. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 research is fine but if breeders are out to deliberately deceive it is very difficult for puppy buyers. yes and those sort of breeders are everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) And very disappointing that the other thread I started got pulled as it had some good information in it.A shame a couple of the helpful posters aren't commenting in this one. Not sure why. Because not all breeders support the MDBA & would prefer not to get involved when there name comes up. It seems a thing of late to be promoting the MDBA in DOL like some elite group when infact it isn't & i find it misleading .There are many wonderful ANKC breeders who do wonderful things & are just as ethical if not more yep flame suit on so shoot me Agree. I'm not getting this. Why so poisonous against the MDBA? It's an organisation that is standing in with the potential to succeed where others have failed. This is supposed to be about making it easier for puppy buyers to find the right breeders (and also about an organisation ready and willing to work for its members, especially in relation to Govt laws). It's been well discussed for a long time even just here on DOL how it's not always easy to find the right breeder via ANKC. So why are all the ANKC breeders up in arms? Is it ONLY (not yelling) because it brings about another registration fee? Is that it? Is that the major beef? Edited January 9, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 research is fine but if breeders are out to deliberately deceive it is very difficult for puppy buyers. yes and those sort of breeders are everywhere yes they are but the question i asked was how do puppy buyers find out and i was told by sway to research. i did this and only after almost putting a deposit down i found the breeder was dodgy. this breeder told lies and misinformed me. so research will not always result in a good breeder so again i ask how can we help puppy buyers pick a good breeder given ankc registration isn't always a good indication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 research is fine but if breeders are out to deliberately deceive it is very difficult for puppy buyers. yes and those sort of breeders are everywhere yes they are but the question i asked was how do puppy buyers find out and i was told by sway to research. i did this and only after almost putting a deposit down i found the breeder was dodgy. this breeder told lies and misinformed me. so research will not always result in a good breeder so again i ask how can we help puppy buyers pick a good breeder given ankc registration isn't always a good indication Yes. It's a pity you can't just tell a novice dog owner "go to an ANKC breeder, they're carefully screened so they're almost without exception ethical & helpful", but sadly you just can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Rebanne doesnt get emails anymore as she is unfinacial this not getting emails has only happened recently though as I hadn't noticed they had stopped. Thank you. They were stopped when you said you were still getting them in the thread that was deleted. If I d known sooner that it was a problem I would have stopped them before that as it wasnt our intention to cause a problem for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Yes. It's a pity you can't just tell a novice dog owner "go to an ANKC breeder, they're carefully screened so they're almost without exception ethical & helpful", but sadly you just can't. +1 And that's the truth. And when I want a puppy, I don't want to have to spend time (that I often don't have) and effort as though I was undertaking some sort of degree to be able to sift through the good, the bad and the ugly. What I went through was enough, it shouldn't be like a full time job. Edited January 9, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 so again i ask how can we help puppy buyers pick a good breeder given ankc registration isn't always a good indication A website needs to be started with all the info in one place. And puppy farmers named. And it explained what a puppy farm is And started by someone with no assets and no cash as I am sure the puppy farmers would be bullies who would try to sue for defamation - even though truth is a defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie99 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Yes. It's a pity you can't just tell a novice dog owner "go to an ANKC breeder, they're carefully screened so they're almost without exception ethical & helpful", but sadly you just can't. +1 And that's the truth. And when I want a puppy, I don't want to have to spend time (that I often don't have) and effort as though I was undertaking some sort of degree to be able to sift through the good, the bad and the ugly. What I went through was enough, it shouldn't be like a full time job. Exactly That is what I and others have been trying to say. If the good ones need a degree to find them and the bad ones pretend to be good why not start a site with the known bad ones?? There is info all over the net on the bad ones, but it takes ages to find it all. It all needs to be in one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxx'sBuddy Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) puppy farmers cannot be named as they are not breaking the law. a name and shame will get the web owner into serious legal conflict with anyone named. just because people do not like puppy farmers does not make their activities on their own illegal Edited January 9, 2011 by Jaxx'sBuddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whippets Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I'm not poisonous towards the MDBA at all. I think it is misleading to send potential puppy buyers towards MDBA members thinking they will get a superior breeder over an ANKC breeder. It's grossly unfair to taint ALL ANKC breeders with the same brush as dodgy. Posting more stories of unethical ANKC breeders will not do nothing more than send the public to pet shops and BYB's. I am not arguing their existance but I'd wager they are the exception more than the rule. I personally won't join the MDBA because I am forking out enough $$$$ for fees and registrations (including council) with this hobby. I am a member of the ANKC. I'm an ethical breeder and that is enough as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 so again i ask how can we help puppy buyers pick a good breeder given ankc registration isn't always a good indication A website needs to be started with all the info in one place. And puppy farmers named. And it explained what a puppy farm is And started by someone with no assets and no cash as I am sure the puppy farmers would be bullies who would try to sue for defamation - even though truth is a defence. and who defines a puppy farmer? been plenty of debate on that issue alone. Plenty of websites devoted to telling people what a puppy farmer is, just not a lot of people read them or believe them. Only have to read the threads where people claim their crossbred dogs are regsitered breeds. people belive what they want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) If the good ones need a degree to find them and the bad ones pretend to be good why not start a site with the known bad ones?? Who gets to officially orchestrate and decide who is "bad" and who is not? I'm not keen on the "bag out the ones we don't like". It's not really the way I am, how I've been brought up nor what I believe in. I think I would hold more esteem for a person or organisation that sets up a criteria and supports those who meet that criteria by accepting membership and the way I see it that's what MDBA are doing. Edited January 9, 2011 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paptacular! Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I personally won't join the MDBA because I am forking out enough $$$$ for fees and registrations (including council) with this hobby. I am a member of the ANKC. I'm an ethical breeder and that is enough as far as I am concerned. I'd have to agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 If the good ones need a degree to find them and the bad ones pretend to be good why not start a site with the known bad ones?? Who gets to officially orchestrate and decide who is "bad" and who is not? I'm not keen on the "bag out the ones we don't like". It's not really the way I am, how I've been brought up nor what I believe in. I think I would hold more esteem for a person or organisation that sets up a criteria and supports those who meet that criteria by accepting membership and the way I see it that's what MDBA are doing. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 sway the reason i ask this is because whilst researching breeders i came across a couple of ankc registered breeders who talked the talk but were quite suspect. now i am an experienced person and i nearly got sucked in.research is fine but if breeders are out to deliberately deceive it is very difficult for puppy buyers. Asking others in the breed will soon turn up who is legit and not. If the same thing comes up over 5-10 different breeders, you know there is some truth to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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