Pollywaffle Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 thanks everyone for your enlightening answers. I know we probably push the boat out a bit too far...we went to bed last night at a certain time 'because the dogs were tired'....'nough said... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywaffle Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 My personal belief is that for some folk, the underlying reason they want pet dogs outside is because they think they are "dirty" or that bringing dogs inside "spoils" them. That's the cultural perception that engenders the practice IMO and I think it stems strongly from our rural roots. I can't find an equivalent for the practice outside of Oz. Given that worming programs and decent husbandry can deal with any health risks associated with dogs, much of the "dogs are unhealthy" thinking of 50+ years ago can be put to bed. Allowing a dog inside and giving it free reign to do whatever it likes are not one and the same thing. I know dogs that never make it to bedrooms, off hard flooring or out of crates but I think a key thing to note is that these dogs are not left alone for most of their lives - and that's the reality for thousands of dogs from working families that keep them outside. I know plenty of inside dogs whose manners are far superior to their outside cousins. Factor in the the size of the average Australian house block hasn't been 1/4 acre for decades, that the number one source of conflict for neighbours is barking dogs and that many of the most popular breeds in this country were bred for companionship and/or lack the physical traits that enable them to cope well outside in all weather and I find the reasons for keeping dogs outside (barring the convenience of the owners) less and less understandable. Frankly I'm surprised that more Australian dogs, kept socially isolated and probably lucky to get one hour of attention in 24 aren't insane. Whether you keep a dog outside or not is up to you. However, IF you do, the onus on you to provide for all of your dogs physical and social needs skyrockets if you want to do it responsibly. If a zoo kept a dog socially isolated and gave it no enrichment, no change of scenery and no company, they'd have animal welfare groups all over them. Tens of thousands of Australians do that in their backyards without a second thought. Ah yes Australia.. the country that brought you the expression "it's just a dog". thanks Poodlefan...really interesting viewpoint which makes sense...as you say..if the dog is given the appropriate attention as I'm sure is the case for a lot of outside dogs, then fine..but it's the ones (who probably aren't DOLers) - who buy the dog and then locate it outside in the back yard, where it literally rots away (well you get the idea)...begs the question....why buy/have the bl..dy thing in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) In my opinion it is not good to assume that because someone does something different to you that they are wrong or worse than you are. We are all different. We have different beliefs and practises and this is what makes the world go around. Unless animals are being tortured and treated with cruelty and as long as they have what they require to be happy and healthy, then each to their own. I know some will come back an say that a dog must live inside most of the time and be in close proximity to it's owner/pack to be happy, and I am not necessary disputing this, but I still think judgemental people are the ones that are wrong, not so much our different practises of keeping our dogs. There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. And my dogs are inside and outside, as I see fit. They are healthy, happy, well djusted dogs that also go off the property on a regular basis to many different locations doing a variation of activities. added... I am not saying that we are having an arguement, more meaning a discussion of differing opinions. Edited cause I just noticed that PF and I opened with the same few words, and I didn't want to look like I was copying or responding to her post. I wrote my post prior to reading hers :D Edited January 13, 2011 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My dogs would go absolutely stir crazy if they were forced to be inside all the time. They are bad enough when it's raining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolz Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 mine is both a in and outside dog.. and when i get my new one she will be both as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 My personal belief is that for some folk, the underlying reason they want pet dogs outside is because they think they are "dirty" or that bringing dogs inside "spoils" them. That's the cultural perception that engenders the practice IMO and I think it stems strongly from our rural roots. I can't find an equivalent for the practice outside of Oz. Given that worming programs and decent husbandry can deal with any health risks associated with dogs, much of the "dogs are unhealthy" thinking of 50+ years ago can be put to bed. Allowing a dog inside and giving it free reign to do whatever it likes are not one and the same thing. I know dogs that never make it to bedrooms, off hard flooring or out of crates but I think a key thing to note is that these dogs are not left alone for most of their lives - and that's the reality for thousands of dogs from working families that keep them outside. I know plenty of inside dogs whose manners are far superior to their outside cousins. Factor in that the size of the average Australian house block hasn't been 1/4 acre for decades, that the number one source of conflict for neighbours is barking dogs and that many of the most popular breeds in this country were bred for companionship and/or lack the physical traits that enable them to cope well outside in all weather and I find the reasons for keeping dogs outside (barring the convenience of the owners) less and less understandable. Frankly I'm surprised that more Australian dogs, kept socially isolated and probably lucky to get one hour of attention in 24 aren't insane. Whether you keep a dog outside or not is up to you. However, IF you do, the onus on you to provide for all of your dogs physical and social needs skyrockets if you want to do it responsibly. If a zoo kept a dog socially isolated and gave it no enrichment, no change of scenery and no company, they'd have animal welfare groups all over them. Tens of thousands of Australians do that in their backyards without a second thought. Ah yes Australia.. the country that brought you the expression "it's just a dog". ;) :D :D :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Edited January 13, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Most of these type of people get a dog because they were cute puppies....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Couldn't agree more. My point about being judgemental is more based on the OPs mention that her neighbour " seems good in every other way" This is according to OP measured against her standards. Edited January 13, 2011 by dyzney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Most of these type of people get a dog because they were cute puppies....... Or "for the kids".. many of whom lose interest damn quickly especially when everytime they go outside the dog goes beserk with excitement. Gee I'd love to know how many dumped dogs never made it inside. I know at least one bunch of trainers i(Monks of New Skete - very old school) dentified that the overwhelming majority of dogs they saw with significant behavioural issues slept isolated from their human pack. Want to keep your dog outside and you work and have a busy family life.. fill your boots.. but consider getting a second one. That way at least your dog has company. Edited January 13, 2011 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolz Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 i grew up on a farm where dogs were working dogs.. they lived in kennels and only came out to work and once they got to old to work were either sent to live with someone else (always so they were a long way from the farm) or they were pts.. i have always believed that a family animal belongs inside with the family but also needs access to outside and fresh air.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisys Mum Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If someone wont allow a dog inside why bother with the mess and trouble they make? Those owners would rarely see the dog. Buy a fish instead. Dogs need company, live outside, or allow the dog inside. ;) People from the UK do allow the dog inside and they allow them on transport too. Australians are well behind. I still think it is personal choice depending on your lifestyle. I am in the fortuate position that we live and work on a farm so my dog gets to be with me almost all day and does a lot of useful work as well, but there is no way that I will be washing her every night so she can come inside. ;) First off i just want to say how cute is that picture of your dog in the pool :D My dog is an inside/outside dog and she sleeps on my bed but when we go out she goes outside, she isnt isnt too fussed though either way. Today though she is refusing to go out because it is raining outside she doesnt like getting her feet wet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywaffle Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Couldn't agree more. My point about being judgemental is more based on the OPs mention that her neighbour " seems good in every other way" This is according to OP measured against her standards. My comment was made more as an observation than a judgement..sorry if it sounded the latter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I grew up with an 'outside only' rule for our dogs and that suited us fine. She still got loads of attention as we are an outdoor family. When I got my first Aussie Leo I was still living at home, so knew he wouldn't be allowed inside. Gradually the rules depreciated to 'only inside on his mat'. I don't think he suffered any ill effects from this nor did any of the dogs following him. They have a vibrant life and were very well behaved. In fact, I made it a point to ensure that the dogs got loads of attention and I was motivated to walk, train and take them out placed to provide them stimulation. It's a great motivator to get out and be active with your dogs rather than sitting around and just having them laze at your feet. So yes, it still makes me a little 'irate' that people *assume* that the only GOOD life for a dog is one where they are allowed inside. Since then in the past 6mths their life has turned upside down. No longer are they outdoor dogs but rather indoor dogs as I have moved into my own place and have set my own rules. It started as they were inside some nights with me, and I found that in reality they were still only in 1-2 nights per week, coz lets face it the other weeks we had been out training till the wee hours of the night. They mix between sleeping in my room with me and sleeping outside. The only CLEAR advantage was toilet training Tahlia as she was able to be crated in my room which made settling her in SO much easier and less stressful to having a crying, crated puppy out of doors keeping your neighbours up! Due to neighbour complaints of the noise my dogs were making (amusing seeing as they never made a noise at the old place and they weren't allowed inside there ;) ) the dogs now alternate between spending time inside or outside when I'm at work. The advantage is that I feel guilty locking them up during the day so it REALLY motivates me to make sure they get their 1.5 walks per day (2 dogs get 2 walks a day, one gets one walk a day). We are on a break from training, but they would also have their training ontop of that. so yes, they are now indoor dogs, but that hasn't increased the amount of 'company' they give me... just the amount of housework . But I'm happy with this arrangement and so are they! The worst part of the indoor dog system is that I can be a bit lazy with training and I find now I just say 'ah you can laze at my feet while I watch TV'. So in some ways, their enrichment has dropped as previously I would have NEVER missed a training session because that would mean they missed out on attention. So I don't think it's about WHERE the dog spends their time but the QUALITY of time you give them. Do I relish in the dogs being inside - I love it and would not have it any other way.... do I thinkt he dogs are better off for it? Well no, I don't think they are. My pup that is still at my parents place doesn't complain about her lifestyle with them (outside only) and mine certainly don't begrudge going to their grandparents place which is a strictly 'outside only residence'. The ONLY rule I have for them is that NO DOG can barge through doorways. I HATE IT!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireybell Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It's totally a personal choice. However all of our family dogs growing up were inside dogs. My two dogs are most definately inside dogs. They even have their own bedroom and single bed! Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There seems to be a lot of negative generalisations about outdoor dogs... It is hard for people to look past their own experience. People have different breeds, numbers of dogs, lifestyles and environments that must all come into account before judging whether indoor/outdoor is best. For my active working breeds living indoors would mean sleeping most of the day confined to a very small house with limited activities. Living outdoors for them means living with a large yard full of interesting things for them. They regularly are sprinting around, chasing each other with toys or just wrestling, they dig, they are regularly in and out of the clamshell pool, they dig up bones and chew sticks, they follow the chooks around, chase birds away, chat to the rabbit, go on lots of car trips, go free running everyday including a swim in the river, have most of the family outside with them for a large part of the day etc etc etc. When I have a Kelpie inside, he will sit on his mat, follow me around, but the moment I even look at the backdoor, he lightens up and leaps around for me to open it. I do have the dogs inside when I feel like it but my choices certainly arent due to health or being clean. My lifestyle and the dogs I have chosen suit best with the way I choose to keep them and they are certainly not missing out on anything being outdoors. I believe they gain. If someone has a single dog and an indoor lifestyle then I agree the dog would be better off indoors with that person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleuri Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) I've heard of dogs that whine like crazy when you leave them out for a few minuets. I've also seen dogs that don't like staying in for long and wait at the door to be let out. I think it's whatever they have become accustomed to. I've see people treat their own children in ways that are not to my liking but all families are different. Whats seen as appropriate for one family is not for another. Edited January 13, 2011 by Fleuri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minxy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I always thought dogs should only be outside, that it was dirty for them to be inside. But after getting Kyojin, well, he's almost always inside He's very clean though, Akitas clean themselves like a cat. And they don't shed like a lot of other breeds. We also vacuum the house AT LEAST every second day. We wipe his paws etc as well and would never let him in if he was actually dirty. He prefers to be inside with us, and I really love his company. I could never imagine having him outside now while we're at home. Plus, with the rain for over a month and now actual flooding, he has to be inside at our place. I'm a bit fussy with some dogs being inside still. I can't stand OH's parents dog being inside at our place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 There will always be arguements for and against the indoor versus outdoor keeping of dogs as there is with everything, but my point is... why argue about something that should be a personal choice. People should worry more about what they are doing themselves and less about judging others. I think many of those who keep their dogs outside are neither aware of those arguments nor of the responsiblity they have to ensure that their dog's needs are met. I've said either can be done well but the onus on spending time with an outside only dog is higher.. and frequently not acknowledged. I think many dog owners don't even consider the issue. Dogs are outside because "that's where dogs belong". Asking them to explain why reveals those cultural perceptions I posted out earlier. Point out that physically isolating a social, pack animal is not natural for the dog and they look at you like you're crazy. I've got two of these kinds of owners as close neighbours. And I get to listen to their dogs.. a lot. Couldn't agree more. My point about being judgemental is more based on the OPs mention that her neighbour " seems good in every other way" This is according to OP measured against her standards. My comment was made more as an observation than a judgement..sorry if it sounded the latter... Don't be sorry, all good. I was not having a go at you at all. Also just making an observation how often we tend to think that others are not up to scratch if they do not do or believe in the same as us. You are not alone with this. We all do it from time to time. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubitty Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The worst part of the indoor dog system is that I can be a bit lazy with training and I find now I just say 'ah you can laze at my feet while I watch TV'. So in some ways, their enrichment has dropped as previously I would have NEVER missed a training session because that would mean they missed out on attention. So I don't think it's about WHERE the dog spends their time but the QUALITY of time you give them. Completely agree with this. My dogs are both indoor dogs but I REALLY try and have an engaging time with them inside, and actually DO stuff, cuz its just so easy to pat them with your foot while you spend all night watching TV! Mind you, I have been known to lie on the couch and use my foot to play tug with Bitty because I am feeling lazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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