It Just Makes Me So Mad

[shortstep]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

Edited April 17, 2011 by shortstep

[JulesP]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

Do you show your tris then?

[shortstep]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

Do you show your tris then?

Go back and read my post I was not talking about tris in the show ring, did not mention the show ring at all. Got it?

I will try again, I was talking about tris in the general population of border collies around the world and most importantly about tris at some of the best sheepdog trials in the world. Isn't it lovely to see them working to the standard for the breed. My goodness they are a wonderful and talented breed.

Edited April 18, 2011 by shortstep

[benshiva]

Yes they are, they can do well at anything we like to try them at! Me, I like to show my dogs. My husband likes to do agility with them. How lucky are we to own such talented dogs!

[JulesP]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

Do you show your tris then?

Go back and read my post I was not talking about tris in the show ring, did not mention the show ring at all. Got it?

I will try again, I was talking about tris in the general population of border collies around the world and most importantly about tris at some of the best sheepdog trials in the world. Isn't it lovely to see them working to the standard for the breed. My goodness they are a wonderful and talented breed.

You go back and read Dancinbcs post then as she was saying she wanted a SHOW tri. Stop trolling.

[shortstep]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

Do you show your tris then?

Go back and read my post I was not talking about tris in the show ring, did not mention the show ring at all. Got it?

I will try again, I was talking about tris in the general population of border collies around the world and most importantly about tris at some of the best sheepdog trials in the world. Isn't it lovely to see them working to the standard for the breed. My goodness they are a wonderful and talented breed.

You go back and read Dancinbcs post then as she was saying she wanted a SHOW tri. Stop trolling.

Yes I read that, that is what made me think about tri coloured dogs. I think that is fantastic and I hope she finds one one day. OK?

Now these guys really need a good border collie,

and I dare you to not at least smile, oh come on, have a laugh!

[OSoSwift]

Not exactly sure what the point of your answer is.

It was said they would love a SHOW tri, they are not easy to come by, a working tri yes well there are quite a few of them and as for the dig about the red tri - many people do not agree with the acceptable colours for the ANKC rego'd dogs.

I really don't think the ANKC dig is necessary, we all know you do not like it and think it is stupid but suprisingly this forum is actually based aroung the dogs that are rego'd on the ANKC registry, yes I know there are others etc etc etc we have heard it from you all before, but cheap digs are not really necessary.

My dogs are registered with ANKC and the two video dogs are also registered in the The Kennel Club in the UK. So not sure what you are talking about.

Sorry if you do not enjoy seeing border collies do what they are suppose to do, work sheep and work sheep in ISDS trials which is the standard of work and the founding registry for the breed.

The particular person was talking about a "show" tri which is why I saw your particular post as pointless.

You like to dig about the ANKC registery so no I am not stupid. How lovely your dogs are also ANKC registered. But as we all know that it isn't hard to get an ANKC registered dog, the quality is another matter.

Did I say anything about not liking to see Border Collies doing what they were bred to do? No personally I like to see them working sheep on a farm over trials set up in an artifical situation but I realise not everryone can work their dogs on farm so trials are the next best thing.

What exactly what I like to see a Border Collie do, or exactly what registery they would be registered on and what I would like to do with them, well you would have no idea and you would also have no idea about my background, so you can assume away but I can pretty much guarentee you'd be off the mark.

Edited April 18, 2011 by OSoSwift

[Mystiqview]

This post is not about ANKC or ISDS, working dogs or show dogs.. So both of you... BUTTON IT!

Your trolling (both of you) are not assisting this topic. Take it into your own topic where you can debate the same old argument to your hearts content without hijacking someone else's.

I created this topic in response to a phone call I received from a so called professional trainer who paid a total rip off price for a fad colour puppy in a pet store. I have seen similar advertisements for coloured puppies here on the DOL listings of similar prices and claims.

It is about the price of coloured pups being sold in pet stores, back yard breeders and registered colour breeders. It is about the rip off some seem to think they can exhort the general population for what is often advertised as "rare".

It is about the increase of registered ANKC breeders who when you visit their websites are obviously breeding for colour without what seems to be a high regard for the quality of animals they are producing. They are advertising "show quality" puppies to the unsuspecting when it is obvious that those puppies do not meet the breed standard.

What the breed standard should or should NOT be is or isn't is not the point of this topic.

There will always be arguments about show bred bcs, and working bred bcs.. Please not dredge up old gripes

[Sayreovi]

Good point. Let me know if you are ever ready for a sable because a bitch I bred produced a stunning shaded sable 4 years ago, so we know another may crop up in the lines at some time. It sure was a surprise when that puppy was born. We had no idea what colour her was and the colour changed every week. He was by far pick puppy in the litter so it was disappointing to not be able to register him on main as his correct colour. He went to a pet home and was desexed.

I will hold you to that! Though it will be a few years yet Do you have a picture of him, he sounds beautiful Do you think one day the ANKC may actually add sable to the standard?

Amber actually has hairs that are totally red, some that are totally black, some that are tipped and some that are banded! People initially think she is red and then when they have a closer look they see the black and realize she is sable.

I :p Amber, she made me fall back in love with sable BC's.

[GoldenGirl85]

So...is there a reason why the ANKC wont register sables? (sorry if I missed it)

[aussielover]

I do know Ill probably never get the dog I really want,

Why do you say that?

Because at the end of the day the colour means squat, I love the blue merle BCs, but if the right dog comes up, at the right time, and it happens to be a B&W...so what? I could get my pretty blue merle, and it could totally suck at agility, where as I could get a B&W who is from sporting lines and it might become a champion...I know there are no guarantees when it comes to breeding, but the right lines are at the top of my list

A very wise way to go about things. I hope your perfect dog is out there for you when you're ready.

Thanks lol, I was hoping my post wouldnt come across the wrong way, I really would love a blue merle, but Im not holding out for it, and Im not going to buy a dog based on its colour...heck when the time comes I might be right off dog sports (not likely) and Ill be after a different breed...another consideration is an Aussie, but I really like my dogs to have tails lol, and I dont think Aussie breeders will like it if I ask for a blue merle with a tail lmao

People asking for a certain tail status certainly isn't unusual. I think very few breeders would be offended. :p

Yes when we were thinking about getting a second Aussie we specifically wanted one with a full tail only. None of the breeders I spoke with were offended at all

[GoldenGirl85]

I do know Ill probably never get the dog I really want,

Why do you say that?

Because at the end of the day the colour means squat, I love the blue merle BCs, but if the right dog comes up, at the right time, and it happens to be a B&W...so what? I could get my pretty blue merle, and it could totally suck at agility, where as I could get a B&W who is from sporting lines and it might become a champion...I know there are no guarantees when it comes to breeding, but the right lines are at the top of my list

A very wise way to go about things. I hope your perfect dog is out there for you when you're ready.

Thanks lol, I was hoping my post wouldnt come across the wrong way, I really would love a blue merle, but Im not holding out for it, and Im not going to buy a dog based on its colour...heck when the time comes I might be right off dog sports (not likely) and Ill be after a different breed...another consideration is an Aussie, but I really like my dogs to have tails lol, and I dont think Aussie breeders will like it if I ask for a blue merle with a tail lmao

People asking for a certain tail status certainly isn't unusual. I think very few breeders would be offended. :p

Yes when we were thinking about getting a second Aussie we specifically wanted one with a full tail only. None of the breeders I spoke with were offended at all

Good, now just to do a lot of research on each breed to figure out which one would suit me better

[OSoSwift]

I was certainly NOT trolling thank you, however I will bow out of this thread.

[JulesP]

So...is there a reason why the ANKC wont register sables? (sorry if I missed it)

No logical reason. The whole border collie colour is fairly stupid with what they allow and don't allow. Maybe some people think it is ok but there is really no reason for why heaps of colours have been left out. No health issues that I found with sables. The only thing you would need to watch for is a sable merle. It would be really hard to see the merle on a shaded sable and impossible on a clear sable. So mating any sable to a merle would be a bad idea.

Thanks tollersowned :D Amber is kind-of Toller colour at the moment but I am expecting her to get more black hairs as she gets older.

[Mystiqview]

There is no difference with sable or any other unrecognized colour.

ANKC allow some, not all. There have been goes over recent years to amend the breed standard without success. There in my opinion seem more against than for it.

Personlly though. I would welcome the ammemdment. Then those people who make it a business to breed the unrecognized colours can actually register then correctly rather than adapt the registration to a recognized one.

The problem with this practice is in five or ten years time unless there is a photo of a particular dog, you will not necessarily know if say a registered chocolate/white was intact a chocolate Merle, sable or chocolate tricolour. This goes for any of the other unrecognized colours.

It makes it harder for breeders in the future to look at a pedigree and know exactly what those dogs were.

Same for sable. You see old dogs in current pedigrees, some listed at red/white. For some of them, were they sable, chocolate (as the UK used to call choc red) or ee-red.

Ee-red is hard anyway as mentioned before, ee-red is a

Masking gene, so genetically could be something else.

[JulesP]

Sable is a masking gene too Amber is black I assume as her pigmentation is really dark. There was a blue sable in the litter before Amber's.

[saradale]

In regards to the original post, RE: $1800 Wheathen/white BC. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the inflated price was to cover the vet bills that this pup would already have accumulated due to the bout of Pavo.

[Mystiqview]

Saradale

Maybe. Maybe not. Sydney and NSW prices of dogs used to be higher than qld. "wheaten" is a fashion colour to have in the last few years. I have seen through the dol puppy ads prices as high as 1500 for red/white. That is from the ones who put their price on the ads.

I know of other breeders who have charged up to $2000 for colour. So $1800 in a Sydney pet store is not surprising.

Still. Way overpriced for a mongrel bred Bc. Even pedigree as Dancinbcs, Benshiva and other Bc breeders who do not breed for this market have said. Any more than $1000 is too much. But I suppose while there are idiots out there who will pay it. They will get sold for that.

[Mystiqview]

Saradale

Maybe. Maybe not. Sydney and NSW prices of dogs used to be higher than qld. "wheaten" is a fashion colour to have in the last few years. I have seen through the dol puppy ads prices as high as 1500 for red/white. That is from the ones who put their price on the ads.

I know of other breeders who have charged up to $2000 for colour. So $1800 in a Sydney pet store is not surprising.

Still. Way overpriced for a mongrel bred Bc. Even pedigree as Dancinbcs, Benshiva and other Bc breeders who do not breed for this market have said. Any more than $1000 is too much. But I suppose while there are idiots out there who will pay it. They will get sold for that.