Staffy - Looking For Advice (help)

[Gammalite]

Hi,

Scenairo -

Astro , 2 year old male 22Kg staffy desexed and the perfect dog, owned since 10 weeks old

Missy, 13 months old staffy 13Kg, not desexed (scheduled for this week), owned for 6 weeks, taken on as a friend for Astro.

Astro is a great dog, sticks close off lead, gentle and loving, great with dogs cats people and all animals in general. He looks at me as the centre of his universe and it always within 3 metres on me when we are out. Doesn't chase, run off, comes when called, all the normal stuff I assume. For me a perfect companion

Introduce Missy. She is a lovable cuddly dog with me. She loves to fight. Always tries to dominate all other dogs, male or female, play fights with Astro and then clicks...turns the play into a full fight. Shes flighty when she see's other dogs, quite agressive all the time regardless of breed or size (even attacked a Alaskan Mally), and especially disklikes female dogs. On Friday at my mates place - he has two heelers (pretty much the last straw) she killed my best mates cat, that should not have been in the backyard, but not the point. Astro has welts all over him, and a few scars on his face. I do spend time with both of them and give the same amount of attention to both. They eat well have a warm place to live, have a big back yard (300 Sq metres) and i walk them every day. They dont fight about food but will about a bone.

I went away for the long weekend and would usually take Astro. Due to Missy's behaviour I left them both home (with a Dog minder to walk and feed them). I feel that Astro is missing out due to Missy and I dont want this to happen.

So Im at the crossroads and I want two staffy's. Should I rehouse her in a single dog family, and again get another puppy. Or should I persevere give that fact Im in a bit of damage control with the cat issue, and seek help?

Im stressed on this as Astro is a great staffy and I can see him taking on her traits a little.

I am a dog owner and dog lover. Both dogs are in great condition and I do my best to ensure they have a great life.

What I am not good on is training and I guess discipline. I dont hit my dogs at all, but do give stern verbal only.

Any advice would be great. At present Astro is becoming a battered dog which I dislike and no doubt he does. He does not deserve it.

(The more I write this the more I think she needs to go......)

Mike

Edited June 14, 2011 by Gammalite

[Keira&Phoenix]

So sorry to hear about the situation you are in Mike.

Where did you get Missy from? Were you made aware of her behavioural issues? If she came from a rescue they should have notified you that she was not good with other dogs/cats etc and probably should not have homed her to a household with another dog.

If you are going to persevere you need to get professional help and right away to try and lessen the impact on Astro and yourseld, friends and family.

Sometimes rehoming is the best option for both the dogs and yourself but I think that is a decision that can be only made by you. If you feel that her behavior is going to seriously affect Astro's health, wellbeing and quality of life (and your own) then I think it is something you should seriously consider.

If you do decide to rehome it really needs to be in a single animal household with experienced and responsible owners (who know the limitations of the dog ie: not to take to dog parks or let off leash in public) and that is something you have to take into consideration as well.

Seems like a hard situation to be in but I think only you can make the right decision for your "family". Best of luck I hope it all works out whichever way you go.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[persephone]

Glad you came seeking help ..........

Ok.

I will suggest you get a well recommended professional to assess Missy.

Do not even THINK about rehoming a dog with the behaviours she has shown with you .... that is not the responsible thing to do , before you get her properly assessed.

It is NOT the caring/responsible thing to rehome a dog showing aggression .

There two D O L members who I would suggest you speak with urgently ... there are other trainers as well, but I can't remember their names

please contact

COSMOLO

NEKHBET

I would also suggest keeping teh dogs separate for now ... ONE day, Astro may feel threatened enough to fight back... and that would be disastrous

Edited June 14, 2011 by persephone

[Clyde]

I would put to sleep before I rehomed an dog aggressive bull breed.

Good luck sorting it out, Atlas sounds gorgeous!

[SoL]

First thing I'm going to suggest is professional training. For you (and I mean that in the nicest way possible). I am NOT a trainer but the following is my opinion on what you have written and going from my own experiences.

It is good that you are desexing her, but do not expect this to quiet her down in any way. She will not be a calmer girl through desexing, nor would she become calmer through having a litter.

Did you have a Stafford before you got Astro or was Astro your first taste of the breed? Staffords are like us in some ways, and without generalising too much no two are teh same, some can be quite laid back, others are boofy canine cannonballs and some are game and up for anything. Regardless of what you say you have in your yard, none will back down if provoked and that is something you should remember and have respect for at all times. Of course she's loving and cuddly with you, she's a Stafford, it's THE most inherent and important aspect of the breed's personality.

Do not leave these dogs together when you are not there. Do not leave any toys out in the yard for them to play with if you're not there. NEVER leave food out for them when you're not there. You have already said that general play can escalate so why would you take a chance on that happening when you can't break it up?

You say you walk them every day. How long for? I have a boy here with whom 5kms doesn't even touch the sides. Do you walk them together? How do they walk together? Do they walk side by side, in front of you, behind you etc? If Missy has no manners on the lead then I would firstly suggest teaching her by herself where the appropriate place to walk is and how to walk nicely.

Do you know much about Missy's history? You have a whole year of behaviours that you need to know about and possibly undo. How was she socialised, if at all? How did you introduce Missy to Astro? What discipline have you instigated? What training have you begun? Is she learning to follow your rules or are you just letting her run free? You have basically brought in a teenager (a teenage girl at that, ugh!). She is trying to find her place in your world but this is also the age where boundaries are pushed and ranking is tested and you being a new owner she probably doesn't look to you for direction too much. You need to change that.

Personally, if I'm introducing a dog into the pack, it takes weeks, not days, of them being mostly separated. Some dogs slip into the pack no problems, others take a lot longer. Even then constant supervision is a MUST for even the slightest scuffle could escalate. If I go out, all dogs are put in their own runs. This is the ONLY way to ensure I have all pack members alive and well for when I come back (and my pack generally is quite peaceful). Given Missy's current behaviour, I wouldn't let her off a check chain until she has learned what acceptable social conduct is. I also wouldn't let her rumble in the back yard with Astro as this is obviously a trigger, it hightens excitement which turns into frenzy.

You wanted 2 Staffords, you got them. You can't turn your back on Missy just because she's not a carbon copy of your boy. She needs your help and she needs to learn what she can and can't do. As others have suggested, get a professional trainer to train you how to train her I don't think she's in a position to be rehomed at the moment. Sort through her issues and if you still don't trust her at the end of that, then at least you can say she has been retrained to the best of that trainer's ability and make sure she goes to a home where she will be the only dog.

I wish you all the very best of luck with her.

[Online Pets]

Glad you came seeking help ..........

Ok.

I will suggest you get a well recommended professional to assess Missy.

Do not even THINK about rehoming a dog with the behaviours she has shown with you .... that is not the responsible thing to do , before you get her properly assessed.

It is NOT the caring/responsible thing to rehome a dog showing aggression .

There two D O L members who I would suggest you speak with urgently ... there are other trainers as well, but I can't remember their names

please contact

COSMOLO

NEKHBET

I would also suggest keeping teh dogs separate for now ... ONE day, Astro may feel threatened enough to fight back... and that would be disastrous

This is really good advise. The easy option would be to just re-home but i think this is by far the better way to go.

[dancinbcs]

Personally I would put her down. A dog like that has no place in society and they are the ones that gives Staffies a bad name. I would not tolerate that behaviour in any dog of any breed. As you know there are plenty of Staffies with wonderful temperaments, dozens of which are put down in pounds and shelters every week. Cut your losses with this one before you invest any more emotional time and money, and find a more suitable friend for Astro.

I know this sounds harsh but people spend so much time and money trying to rehabilitate dogs with bad temperaments when so many healthy dogs with good temperaments are euthanased every week. Just doesn't make sense to me. Some are dogs are damaged from abuse but some are just born with crappy temperaments.

Edited June 14, 2011 by dancinbcs

[Dju]

Why do people keep calling Astro by the name Atlas?

Anyways, I'm not a professional trainer or anything like that, but I'm surprised that people were so quick to suggest a rehoming for Harper the Poodle puppy who was crying too much and yet a lot of people are suggesting sticking with and more training with this DA dog. She's attacking other dogs in public, she's attacking the dog she's living with, and as dancinbcs says, there are so many staffies with great temperaments being euth'd every week. What's worse is from your post, it sounds like she's "corrupting" the good dog, and there's a chance that training might prove futile and leave a sad ending for both dogs. I would give Missy her wings, personally

[poodlefan]

Why do people keep calling Astro by the name Atlas?

Anyways, I'm not a professional trainer or anything like that, but I'm surprised that people were so quick to suggest a rehoming for Harper the Poodle puppy who was crying too much and yet a lot of people are suggesting sticking with and more training with this DA dog. She's attacking other dogs in public, she's attacking the dog she's living with, and as dancinbcs says, there are so many staffies with great temperaments being euth'd every week. What's worse is from your post, it sounds like she's "corrupting" the good dog, and there's a chance that training might prove futile and leave a sad ending for both dogs. I would give Missy her wings, personally

OP can't responsibly rehome this dog.. so other options must be looked at.

My first port of call would be to find out where the dog came from. Ideal solution would be to see her returned.

13 months old and not desexed tells me it wasn't a responsible rescue, that's for sure.

Astro would be living in a constant state of stress. This dog would not be in my home a single day longer.

Edited June 14, 2011 by poodlefan

[W Sibs]

What a sucky situation.

Personally, I wouldn't rehome Missy. Not fair for another person/family to deal with her issues.

Either get her help or PTS.

[dee lee]

Personally I would put her down. A dog like that has no place in society and they are the ones that gives Staffies a bad name. I would not tolerate that behaviour in any dog of any breed. As you know there are plenty of Staffies with wonderful temperaments, dozens of which are put down in pounds and shelters every week. Cut your losses with this one before you invest any more emotional time and money, and find a more suitable friend for Astro.

I know this sounds harsh but people spend so much time and money trying to rehabilitate dogs with bad temperaments when so many healthy dogs with good temperaments are euthanased every week. Just doesn't make sense to me. Some are dogs are damaged from abuse but some are just born with crappy temperaments.

I totally agree.

ETA: Usually this kind of behaviour can only be managed- not fixed. I believe it is totally irresponsible to rehome a DA dog.

Edited June 14, 2011 by dee lee

[TsarsMum]

have to agree i would be PTS sorry but you can save them all and this one is one of them

[Animal House]

You definitely need to jump on this situation now, as she could well turn on Astro and you end up with both dogs dead/injured.

Did you know she was aggressive when you took her on? Any chance you can return her to where she came from?

For now, separate your two, and never leave them alone together. If you walk her, make sure she cannot get offlead (maybe muzzle her) and don't take her visiting unless she is onlead at all times, this should reduce any incidents until you work out what your going to do with her.

I'd not rehome an aggressive dog, I think its just passing the buck.

A good behaviourist should come out to assess her in your home (and from personal experience with my own Staffy I'd recommend NEKHBET a member on here) Then I'd go with her advice. Good luck.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Bite Me

[PetSitters]

Personally I would put her down. A dog like that has no place in society and they are the ones that gives Staffies a bad name. I would not tolerate that behaviour in any dog of any breed. As you know there are plenty of Staffies with wonderful temperaments, dozens of which are put down in pounds and shelters every week. Cut your losses with this one before you invest any more emotional time and money, and find a more suitable friend for Astro.

I know this sounds harsh but people spend so much time and money trying to rehabilitate dogs with bad temperaments when so many healthy dogs with good temperaments are euthanased every week. Just doesn't make sense to me. Some are dogs are damaged from abuse but some are just born with crappy temperaments.

Although you can modify a dog's behaviour which sometimes turns out good, dog's like this are a constant struggle and require constant supervision and as harsh as it sounds I tend to agree with dancinbcs unfortunately

[budgiew]

I think PTS is the right thing in this instance.I agree there are so many good dogs in rescue who will enrich your life.This dog has you living on a knife edge.What if she got loose ;could end in a tragic situation.Let her go to doggy heaven.Give yourself and Astro time to recover from the stress,and then get help and advise about finding a more suitable dog.

[Bully]

What a sucky situation.

Personally, I wouldn't rehome Missy. Not fair for another person/family to deal with her issues.

Either get her help or PTS.

My thoughts too.

Astro sounds like my 6yo girl Pele - the perfect dog

[huski]

Personally I wouldn't PTS any one of my dogs for a behavioral issue without getting a professional opinion first, which is not something that can be given over the net.

[Staranais]

Personally I wouldn't PTS any one of my dogs for a behavioral issue without getting a professional opinion first, which is not something that can be given over the net.

Agree with this. My first dog was a DA stafford - 5 years old when I adopted him and seriously, seriously DA. He would sometimes attempt to kill other dogs on sight, and had killed cats too. He was never 100% safe with other dogs, but ended up being trustworthy around cats, and good enough around other dogs to win obedience comps. Took a lot of work though. And I do mean a lot.

The one thing I wouldn't do is rehome. It's not fair on the new owner, unless they are already used to having a DA bull breed (and to be frank, if you've had one, you usually don't want another).

[Gammalite]

OK, wow a lot to digest and I DO really appreciate the advice so far.

Here's what Im going to do, Ill invest in her then see what comes. I spoke to Staffy Rescue in Melbourne and they have advised me to call Aussie Dog Whisperer. Booked in for Thursday 9-1.

I am going to give her a chance. Ill come back to the post.

Here is the video of the first day they met. I actually forgot I posted this on youtube. I did it for the previous owners.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhRM7jn0VwY

Once again, thanks for the advice and I hope a positive comes out of this.

Mike

Edited June 14, 2011 by Gammalite

[Animal House]

OK, wow a lot to digest and I DO really appreciate the advice so far.

Here's what Im going to do, Ill invest in her then see what comes. I spoke to Staffy Rescue in Melbourne and they have advised me to call Aussie Dog Whisperer. Booked in for Thursday 9-1.

I am going to give her a chance. Ill come back to the post.

Here is the video of the first day they met. I actually forgot I posted this on youtube. I did it for the previous owners.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=QhRM7jn0VwY

(Please excuse the gun range videos, it was a work event while we were in Las Vegas)

Once again, thanks for the advice and I hope a positive comes out of this.

Mike

Did you get her from Staffy Rescue?

Personally, I'd steer clear of anyone who calls themselves "Dog Whisperer", and go with someone who has experience and many recommendations. A fully qualified behaviorist who dealt with my Staffy and is a respected member on here is someone to consider at least. PM me if you want her contact details anyway, I did leave them in my other post. Nekhbet is my recommendation.

Actually, after watching that video, yes, I would recommend you keep them separate and get onto a behaviorist asap.

Is your backyard escape proof? It looks very open.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Bite Me