'search & Destroy Mission'

[Cosmolo]

Should be the Dandenong leader newspaper i think, not sure when it comes out though. Will post a link if there is one.

I think the vet certificate is a good thing but would still like to know exactly how this legislation is to be applied.

[sumosmum]

Thanks Cosmolo, I will keep an eye out.

[Teebs]

wow good work everyone!

Is there anything us in NSW can do?

If it helps - i have a website (www.cinspets.com.au) My business is shutting down in a few months and i dont really need it... i am happy to lend it to someone if they would like a way to get info out? Or can do a new page up on there. just let me know

will try to remember to watch the news tomorrow!

[Sheridan]

My understanding of the legislation is as follows:

My bitsa bull arab X type mutt is registered as a bull arab X with the local shire council.

Let's say I'm at agility and one of the other owners takes a dislike to me and my mutt. They can use the dob-a-dog hotline and report me and the hound.

The ranger then approaches me and asks if my dog is registered. I say yes, as a bull arab X.

Then the ranger pulls out the appearance checklist, and makes some ticks based on the look of my dog. They then say they believe my dog is a pitbull X.

I have no papers. I have no DNA tests. My dog is a rescue mongrel. He's tan and white (check), has a large square head (check), has a scissor bite (check), is within the weight range (check), and has a wrinkly forehead (check).

What now? Under the legislation, my understanding is that the rangers can impound and euthanise my dog, in spite of no priors, no problems, no aggression and no roaming, just because I haven't accurately registered him?

Am I correct in what I portray here?

And if I am correct, are they on crack?

That's utterly terrifying, isn't it.

I miss Victoria but I no longer say I'd move back there. Indeed, I'd have to think very carefully about moving back to a state that even before the Liberal Party got into power, seemed to be so anti-dog. I imagine anyone with a bull breed must be very nervous, papered or not. I imagine that at some point a papered Amstaff will fall foul of these laws and be euthanised immediately (because there doesn't seem to be an appeal period).

[RallyValley]

Well if it does not have a perfect scissor bite and full dentition it's not a Pitt Bull ;)

This standard is crazy! Especially the part about 'cropped ears' ect...

[sandgrubber]

My Labradore is potentially a serious danger to children when it is eating. It is EXTREMELY aggressive at guarding its food. If I was irresponsible and let a child go up and pull my dogs ears when it was eating, I absolutely believe it would attack them. In fact I believe it would attack me! Don't get me wrong, my labradore is otherwise the most friendly well socialized dog you would ever meet. But its previous owners abused it, and used to pull it away from its food to torment it, and it has issues with food.

I hope your Labrador has been neutered. Extremely aggressive anything is not acceptable in the breed standard. Btw. Labrador doesn't have an 'e' on the end.

Personally, I think a lot of people should be breathing a sign of relief with publication of the standard. It is very detailed and would let through most bull X's I've met. Moreover, your dog can be exempted given " a certificate signed by a veterinary practitioner stating, or to the effect, that the dog is of a particular breed." Pedigree Am Staffs are also explicitly exempt.

It's not good. It is stupid. But it could be a lot worse.

[Cosmolo]

Someone called me last night and told me that the vet letter will only help if it says the dog is of pure breed.

I don't think the standard is specific at all and the weight range in particular is going to bring Staffy x's under scrutiny as well.

[Keira&Phoenix]

My Labradore is potentially a serious danger to children when it is eating. It is EXTREMELY aggressive at guarding its food. If I was irresponsible and let a child go up and pull my dogs ears when it was eating, I absolutely believe it would attack them. In fact I believe it would attack me! Don't get me wrong, my labradore is otherwise the most friendly well socialized dog you would ever meet. But its previous owners abused it, and used to pull it away from its food to torment it, and it has issues with food.

I hope your Labrador has been neutered. Extremely aggressive anything is not acceptable in the breed standard. Btw. Labrador doesn't have an 'e' on the end.

Personally, I think a lot of people should be breathing a sign of relief with publication of the standard. It is very detailed and would let through most bull X's I've met. Moreover, your dog can be exempted given " a certificate signed by a veterinary practitioner stating, or to the effect, that the dog is of a particular breed." Pedigree Am Staffs are also explicitly exempt.

It's not good. It is stupid. But it could be a lot worse.

The dogs will not have to meet the exact standard. It will be like the 22 point checklist they bought in and used in QLD. Basically if your dog meets a certain number or certain percentage it is a Pitbull or Pitbull X, trust me a lot of Bull Breeds will fall into the higher percentage that classifies them as a "Pitbull" according to the Vic Government.

They also had and still have the Vet letter clause in Qld Legislation, it didn't stop Councils in Qld from taking and euthanizing or trying to take dogs in Qld who had Vet letter stating they were of a different breed.A friend had the Council try to take her dog away from her even though she had a Vet letter stating he was an Amstaff. So there is no guarantee a Vet Letter will help you at all.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Keira&Phoenix

[corrie]

PF - this is the same person who says they want to own a human aggressive dog. For protecting his/her yard. Got a few applauses too?

No doubt. There is a place in this world IMO for dogs prepared to do harm to humans who simply trespass. IMO Australia is not one of those places and a dog with the temperament of the Fila needs to be carefully placed in the right homes anywhere.

A correctly temperamented Fila will do more than just guard.. so when little Timmy comes uninvited over the fence looking for his tennis ball, he won't be leaving in one piece. I'd say he wont' be leaving anyway but in a coffin. Anyone who could casually say that they wish to own such a dog in an urban setting in this country needs their head read.

Place that argument in a place like Johannesburg and its a whole new ball game.

What ever "poodle fan".

I live in one of the roughest neighborhoods in Australia, we had over 5 murders in this suburb last year and many, many other bashings, sexual assaults and attacks. Just cause you live in posh poodle ville doesn't give you a right to judge. I've only been here a year and I have already had my place broken into and my possession stolen, including my former dog (which was a labradore).

You can really go stuff your opinions. Little Timmy isn't going to be coming over my 3 metre high fence, I don't have any kids as neighbors and all the neighbors are long term.

Its none of your bloody business why I want a specific dog or not, and I have every right to have a guard dog that is capable of taking down an intruder for my protection (well I should have that right, if Australia wasn't such a gutless cotton wool nanny state). I have a right to protect myself whatever you may think. You may like dogs that are "like little poodles" but I like real dogs with assertive temperaments that are capable of protecting me. BTW You would make a great leader for this nanny state, seeing as you like to judge other peoples business.

I am a responsible owner, entirely capable of managing my dog and restricting my dog to my property. You are a clown who likes to think people are too irresponsible to handle things and everything should be banned.

Oh and "poodlefan", there are many non-banned breeds which are quite capable of mauling to death little Timmy, I have met great danes and other dogs that would maul little Timmy if he jumped the back fence, its not the breed, its how the dog is trained and socialized, its hypocritical and deluded reasoning that thinks some breeds are "bad". There is no such thing as an evil or bad breed of dog.

Screw the government banning everything (especially dogs), because of the extremely small minority of dog attacks by irresponsible dog owners (you know instead of actually holding those owners heavily responsible). Ban cars, ban back yard pools, ban swimming, ban sports, lets all wrap the whole of society in cotton wool and take away all of our liberties, otherwise poodlefan might have nightmares about the bad things that could happen. OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

What a discusting post. You are obviously a very angry, nasty person. Glad I dont live near you! I think you are full of it as well.

Agreed, NicB.

You sound like the type of person these breeds really don't need.

On a forum people can say they have 3 meter fences and are the the pinnicle of responsible dog ownership but sometimes the main assertions belie the subtext.

[SpotTheDog]

Back from the vet, where Gus was one big wiggle, wouldn't stand on the scales because he was too busy fidgeting and wiggling, jumped on the vet nurse, licked her, licked the vet, wouldn't sit when asked, wiggled at the delivery man, and behaved like a 12 week old puppy in a 25kg body, didn't even twitch when he had his jab and would only sit when offered food. (The shame. )

The vet couldn't identify Gus's breed. I'm fascinated by how many people ask me what breed he is, and then look curious when I say 'mongrel'. Can dogs not be mongrels any more? Do they have to be Cavabichoodleillions?

The vet reckons staffy cross maybe, but bull arab cross maybe (not big enough at 25kgs), but all they'd commit to was nodding and saying 'definitely not a pitbull'. My paranoia comes from back when my original dog trainer said she'd reckon he had amstaff in him (size, shape, blah blah) and because many of the breed standard features apply to him - as long as the legislation remains vague about crossbreeds, I'm not comfortable that he's completely safe.

No certificate - locum vet today, if I want a cert I need to revisit next week some time when the practice owner is back. I'm happy to wait and watch how this unfolds and then get the cert.

[Tapferhund]

PF - this is the same person who says they want to own a human aggressive dog. For protecting his/her yard. Got a few applauses too?

No doubt. There is a place in this world IMO for dogs prepared to do harm to humans who simply trespass. IMO Australia is not one of those places and a dog with the temperament of the Fila needs to be carefully placed in the right homes anywhere.

A correctly temperamented Fila will do more than just guard.. so when little Timmy comes uninvited over the fence looking for his tennis ball, he won't be leaving in one piece. I'd say he wont' be leaving anyway but in a coffin. Anyone who could casually say that they wish to own such a dog in an urban setting in this country needs their head read.

Place that argument in a place like Johannesburg and its a whole new ball game.

What ever "poodle fan".

I live in one of the roughest neighborhoods in Australia, we had over 5 murders in this suburb last year and many, many other bashings, sexual assaults and attacks. Just cause you live in posh poodle ville doesn't give you a right to judge. I've only been here a year and I have already had my place broken into and my possession stolen, including my former dog (which was a labradore).

You can really go stuff your opinions. Little Timmy isn't going to be coming over my 3 metre high fence, I don't have any kids as neighbors and all the neighbors are long term.

Its none of your bloody business why I want a specific dog or not, and I have every right to have a guard dog that is capable of taking down an intruder for my protection (well I should have that right, if Australia wasn't such a gutless cotton wool nanny state). I have a right to protect myself whatever you may think. You may like dogs that are "like little poodles" but I like real dogs with assertive temperaments that are capable of protecting me. BTW You would make a great leader for this nanny state, seeing as you like to judge other peoples business.

I am a responsible owner, entirely capable of managing my dog and restricting my dog to my property. You are a clown who likes to think people are too irresponsible to handle things and everything should be banned.

Oh and "poodlefan", there are many non-banned breeds which are quite capable of mauling to death little Timmy, I have met great danes and other dogs that would maul little Timmy if he jumped the back fence, its not the breed, its how the dog is trained and socialized, its hypocritical and deluded reasoning that thinks some breeds are "bad". There is no such thing as an evil or bad breed of dog.

Screw the government banning everything (especially dogs), because of the extremely small minority of dog attacks by irresponsible dog owners (you know instead of actually holding those owners heavily responsible). Ban cars, ban back yard pools, ban swimming, ban sports, lets all wrap the whole of society in cotton wool and take away all of our liberties, otherwise poodlefan might have nightmares about the bad things that could happen. OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

What a discusting post. You are obviously a very angry, nasty person. Glad I dont live near you! I think you are full of it as well.

Agreed, NicB.

You sound like the type of person these breeds really don't need.

On a forum people can say they have 3 meter fences and are the the pinnicle of responsible dog ownership but sometimes the main assertions belie the subtext.

CyberG,

Living in such a dangerous area I don't blame you for what you want in a dog. Truth be known and if people were honest like you...they too would hope their dog/s would protect them and their property if the case ever arose. I know I would !!! You have every right to your opinion as everyone else does. Its just a pity some on here have forgotten this and expect everyone to parrot them in their sanctimonious pious beliefs. So take no notice of them.

[Leema]

Seemingly, by Hansard, John Lenders seems like an alright bloke sceptical of the Baillieu government's plan. I emailed him. His email is: [email protected]

Dear John,

I am writing to express my thanks for your critical comments to the recent amendments made by the Liberal Party to the Companion Animals Act. When reading the Handsard document, I was impressed with your understanding of the dog bite issue and the issues inherent in the amendments to the act. I was pleased to see that the Labor Party was providing a more thoughtful approach to legislation that appears rushed and illogical.

The most obvious flaw in the changed scheme is the intent to classify dogs as ‘pitbulls’ by their physical characteristics. This is an erroneous proposition. In reality, the legislation is targeting dogs of a particular appearance. As you so thoughtfully said, this presents the problem of the pendulum swinging 'the other way'. American Staffordshire Terriers are a very similar breed to American Pitbull Terriers, and it is likely that any definition describing a 'pit bull' will also encompass American Staffordshires. Indeed, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, and mongrels of, are very popular, and it is likely that many innocent pets with no pit bull heritage would be condemned with these legislation changes. Again, as you intuitively noted, these owners may not even be aware that their animals could be deemed as 'dangerous' under the new definition, and may be at risk of their pets being destroyed.

Furthermore, as you observed, there is a risk that more breeds will be included in the restricted breed list, causing more legislative changes and more expense.

Ultimately, legislation such as that seen in Victoria (that is, legislation that specifies restrictions on dogs based on breeds) have not been seen to be effective in any country in which they have been implemented. You are right to be sceptical that this mechanism will be effective. History tells us it will not be.

The public wants to see a reduction in dog bites. I fear the strategy introduced here will not be effective at this goal.

Councils need to be provided with better resources, full stop, especially in regard to ranger-hours. Currently, rangers struggle to uphold existing legislation, resulting in many dogs roaming at large - such as the dog who tragically entered the Chol family home. Indeed, this dog was not even registered with council. It is a fallacy for the Liberal Government to believe that councils can sufficiently fund their current dog management, let alone increased dog management as a result of these legislative changes.

I fully support proposals that make dog owners responsible for their dog’s behaviour. This would allow owners of dogs that bite or kill to be prosecuted for offences, including manslaughter. Hopefully this type of change would make dog owners think twice about owning an aggressive animal.

I am sure that you and the Labor Party will be interested in making a decision that actually works to reduce the incidence of dog bites in Victoria, such as educational strategies, rather than supporting the heinous proposals by the Liberal Party. The dog world can clearly see the holes in the Ballieu government’s incompetent and hastily drafted strategy, and would surely embrace a more logical proposal from the opposition.

I welcome your email or phone call. My phone number is xxx.

Kind regards,

I think you are referring to the speech by Mr BARBER (Northern Metropolitan) , Lender didn't say much of any consequence in his speech.

S

You're right. Will email Barber the same email (Ish).

[Animal House]

You did a great job SM, Monty came across as a really well behaved happy boy!

Who else watched it?

Yep, thanks people. I did suggest on the phone that the dogs all together mixing nicely would be good and he was happy with that. When they called back they said they wanted footage of the dogs all together. Hope the little ones behave. The Staffy will be fine. Funny that, he is the best behaved and most reliable of them all. They are all loved and gorgeous, but he is the outstanding one. :D

[sumosmum]

You did a great job SM, Monty came across as a really well behaved happy boy!

Who else watched it?

Yep, thanks people. I did suggest on the phone that the dogs all together mixing nicely would be good and he was happy with that. When they called back they said they wanted footage of the dogs all together. Hope the little ones behave. The Staffy will be fine. Funny that, he is the best behaved and most reliable of them all. They are all loved and gorgeous, but he is the outstanding one. :D

Thank you. A bit was cut, that was to be expected as they were here for an hour. It was only aired on Victoria it seems, so when it is online, I will post a link.

[sumosmum]

Here is a link to the piece on the TV tonight.

ABC 7.30 show

[shelby-001]

Here is a link to the piece on the TV tonight.

ABC 7.30 show

That bloke from the lost dogs home is an idiot!

You did very well..... be proud, you represented responsible dog owners very well.

[Uzi]

Here is a link to the piece on the TV tonight.

ABC 7.30 show

That bloke from the lost dogs home is an idiot!

You did very well..... be proud, you represented responsible dog owners very well.

Could not agree more!

Your dogs look great by the way!

Tonight my wife was walking our 9 month of ESBT and a lady crossed the road quite hastily. My partner told our boy Uzi to sit and he obliged and so the woman made the comment 'id want my dog under control too if i had one like that'.

If it had been me walking him I probably would have told her that if i had a brain like hers id keep it inside the house with some more colorful words, but then I guess i would just further her thinkings of these breeds and their owners.

[Loopy Lola]

Here is a link to the piece on the TV tonight.

ABC 7.30 show

That bloke from the lost dogs home is an idiot!

You did very well..... be proud, you represented responsible dog owners very well.

I agree

Was NOT impressed with the way LDH (I'm assuming) took the APBT looking dog upto the other dogs run so that they could go at eachother through the wire ........wonder whose idea that was

[Megs]

sumosmum you did a fantastic job! You came across as a responsible, caring and concerned dog owner, and in no way the 'dog fanatic' that some people might think would be the only ones worried about this legislation. LDH on the other hand makes my skin crawl, that man is evil, pure and simple.

[Uzi]

sumosmum you did a fantastic job! You came across as a responsible, caring and concerned dog owner, and in no way the 'dog fanatic' that some people might think would be the only ones worried about this legislation. LDH on the other hand makes my skin crawl, that man is evil, pure and simple.

I hear that! Plain doesn't like them, he just puts out a statement as fact without any real justification.

And the 'if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, it is a duck' nonsense is revolting too.