Purdie Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I was reading an article today and it said black pups can occur in litters of Golden Retrievers.Is this so?Why would this occur.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Daisy Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I've never heard of that. Some Goldens do get small black hairs in their coat which is a fault. My last show male had a very small patch (maybe 10 hairs) that grew under his chin but was easy to pluck out. They were originally shown as Flat coat retrievers - Golden, to distinguish them from the black flat coats we know today. But by 1920 they were a breed in themselves. Like I said, never heard of a black one being born from proper pedigree golden parents. Do you have a link to the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 http://goldenretrieverdoginfo.com/black-golden-retriever/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? Edited September 8, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 http://www.ashgi.org/color/Aussie_somatic_mutations.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 black is dominant. Somatic mutations, as in Adrian2's link, could produce black from two yellow/gold/red dogs, and there may be some roundabout ways it could happen . . . but all in all, not bloody likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 There is recessive black. Agouti allele. Flat Coats carry this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 (edited) I was reading an article today and it said black pups can occur in litters of Golden Retrievers.Is this so?Why would this occur.? If it is recessive black on agouti allele: a^y > a^w > a^t > a fawn > wolf sable > black and tan > black recessive black and recessive black and tan pattern is my favourite obsession amongst Kangals/Anatolians :D Edited September 8, 2011 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? a bit like their " brindle" pugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 It is the old newfoundland or St Johns water dog showing their genes. I knew a guy here in Australia who had the biggest pure breed golden I ever saw, size of a newfie with many many black hairs in his coat. You often see black hairs on goldens but I never saw of heard of a pure black puppy before. The original article is not really credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyTansy Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? a bit like their " brindle" pugs and their "blue" Weimaraners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatsofatsoman Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? a bit like their " brindle" pugs and their "blue" Weimaraners and their 'silver' labs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) .I guess the Amerian Goldens may have different genes in their background .? ? a bit like their " brindle" pugs and their "blue" Weimaraners and their 'silver' labs Goodness what next,Tiger striped Dalmations.Anyway i did have a link to another forum ,but i took it off due to the rules.A person on there was saying that she mated her pure breed Goldens,brother and sister,and all the pups were black.So i guess her dogs had a recessive gene from a flat coat.It was also suggested it was due to the parents being siblings.Would this have anything to do with it,like pupps having a double dose of the recessive gene.Just got me wondering. I saw the story, but I'd prefer to see something a bit more credible before I believed that these were pure goldens. It's possible, though, if it is recessive black. If it was very rare in the breed, it would presumably be more common in sibling matings because there is more chance of siblings both inheriting the gene from a carrier parent. You do need to double up on the recessive black gene to get a black coat. Lappies can be dominant black or recessive black, with the same colour sequence that lilli described. There are no 'fawn' Lappies (we generally call them red sable) in Australia that I know of, though, and no wolf sables that I know of either even though wolf sable is quite common overseas. ETA: from what information I can find, though, Golden Retrievers get their colour from the E locus, and that should override recessive black in the A locus. So maybe recessive black isn't possible in Goldens. Edited September 9, 2011 by LappieHappy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) Thanks Lappyhappy; Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Thanks Lappyhappy;I thaught it was as you described.I have dabbled a bit in bird genetics but wasn't sure about this with dogs. I've just done a little bit of research and edited my post, sorry! I'm at the point where someone who knows more about colour genetics than I do might have to add their expertise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Or their Long Haired Whippets! I had someone down here say the same thing, the dog when fully grown didn't look at all like a Goldie except for its coat type. It was solid black with a small white patch. She then went on to buy a black Flatcoat and now he is a Flatcoat!!!! His mum was a Goldie - not disputing that - we guess his dad was a BC from down the road. After two black litters from two Goldie parents you would think they would investigate more, but no, they ran them together in a yard (with no roof) and although they had seen him hump her they had never seen them mate, but they were rare Black Goldies!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepup Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) There's a lady down the road with a golden that has a large black patch on it's back. I have no idea of its parentage but it looks like a purebred besides the strange black patch, he's quite neat looking! Edited September 9, 2011 by moosepup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted September 10, 2011 Author Share Posted September 10, 2011 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2011 by Purdie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now