**Super_Dogs** Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) My most recent pup who is now 10 months old I followed Susan Garrett's foundation exercises from her book shaping success and also used her method to crate train. Well I can say - what a success!!! My pup has been fantastic at obedience and we hardly practice (I prefer to practice the foundation exercises). The exercises taught her to think and i have found she learns things so quickly and things stick. Definetly recommend this book especially if you have an interest in agility. Edited January 12, 2012 by buddy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks everyone - some great feedback. I think I'll add tug games to the training list (we'd just been doing this for fun, I wasn't really thinking of it as work). I think Susan Garrett would say they are one and the same thing. Great to hear Susan's puppy-rearing methods work well. I have been reading her book Shaping Success and am a member of her PuppyPeaks website which is full of great ideas. While I don't kid myself that I could emulate the success she has with her dogs, and I do think corrections have their place in raising a puppy, I could certainly have fun playing some of those games. Great to hear you've had a good experience with this approach Buddy1. Ness what great videos! So many ideas of fun things to teach to your dogs. The dogs in those videos are having a ball, which is a great advertisement for this style of training. Just a question though: when you are all talking about 'foundation exercises' what exactly do you mean? Are these some of the puppy games in Susan's book? Or something else? ETA: Huski I think I understand what you're getting at. I do want a dog that is well-behaved, not just great at lots of tricks. I think that's why I have 2 lists going - one for 'things' and one for life lessons. I agree if push came to shove the life lessons are the most important at this age. And also having a great time together playing, which I agree is fundamentally important. No point getting too serious - and a puppy just wouldn't cope with too much serious stuff/pressure anyway would they? Edited January 12, 2012 by Zug Zug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not just how to play a game with me but how to play a game with me at varying places and that all rewards come through me . For sure! I don't really worry too much about training lots of commands with pups, I would personally put more priority on having a pup that engages well with me, that has fun with me and the rewards I offer, that has good durable focus etc. I don't really care about having a pup that can do lots of things if I don't have the relationship and engagement I want with them. Basic manners in the house, crate training, toilet training, how to be calm and 'off' and up 'on' when I want are the other things I'd also have at the top of my list. This Once you have good engagement everything else is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 SG puppy peaks would be a fantastic starting point I would imagine. She has a lovely focus on bringing up well behaved family members as well as balancing that with being a top class performance dog. Foundation exercises - I would add to the list things like crate games. It really just depends on how you use "tricks" and whether they are purely things to engage the dog with you and get them building a relationship. Things like teaching a collar grab/restrained recall/hand touch all are fairly simple behaviors which a puppy can pick up on quickly and have a multitude of uses. I did also like Sue Alisby's training levels - I have looked over them in the original form and it appears there is a new link here - http://www.sue-eh.ca/page24/page26/page10/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Once again, obviously I have not explained myself well enough because nothing I have said is about people who train tricks, nor have I implied anywhere that people who trick train don't have a good relationship with their dogs. I was just using it as an example for the greater point I was trying to make - nothing at all against trick training. Forget I said anything! Edited January 12, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just a question though: when you are all talking about 'foundation exercises' what exactly do you mean? Are these some of the puppy games in Susan's book? Or something else? Yes, the games in susan's book. They are referee to as foundation as they are used as the starting point for other training, like agility. I did not train my previous dog like this (I did knot know about Susan then) so we will have to see if it makes a difference when we start agility. It has certainly made a different for obedience. Definitely recommend SG crate games. My girl had a solid stay and recall at a really young age and IMO this was from crate games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Once again, obviously I have not explained myself well enough because nothing I have said is about people who train tricks, nor have I implied anywhere that people who trick train don't have a good relationship with their dogs. I was just using it as an example for the greater point I was trying to make - nothing at all against trick training. Forget I said anything! I think I get what you are saying. It is important to build a relationship at a young age so fun is important. Tricks are fine, as they do help with the relationship but keep it fun. About a year ago I wads given a tip from a trainer as my dog was lacking a bit of motivation and it was the best advice. Keep training session fun and stop while the dogs is wanting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) I understand what you are saying Huski :) It is easy to be bogged down in teaching all the commands etc at the start (there is so much to teach!) and make it too serious. I am guilty of that with Diesel - didn't do enough relationship building. SG's foundation games are great! Doing Recallers atm - they are also about relationship building, many of the games help to build engagement. Edited January 12, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Huski - I hear ya! fun and games = communication and bonding , which makes formal training easier later on :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Once again, obviously I have not explained myself well enough because nothing I have said is about people who train tricks, nor have I implied anywhere that people who trick train don't have a good relationship with their dogs. I was just using it as an example for the greater point I was trying to make - nothing at all against trick training. Forget I said anything! I don't think anyone is arguing with you, we all agree you need a good relationship as a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I think I get what you are saying. It is important to build a relationship at a young age so fun is important. Tricks are fine, as they do help with the relationship but keep it fun. About a year ago I wads given a tip from a trainer as my dog was lacking a bit of motivation and it was the best advice. Keep training session fun and stop while the dogs is wanting more. I understand what you are saying Huski :) It is easy to be bogged down in teaching all the commands etc at the start (there is so much to teach!) and make it too serious. I am guilty of that with Diesel - didn't do enough relationship building. SG's foundation games are great! Doing Recallers atm - they are also about relationship building, many of the games help to build engagement. Huski - I hear ya! fun and games = communication and bonding , which makes formal training easier later on :) Thanks guys I thought I was going crazy! The relationship building stuff is really important but the other part of what I was saying is that when I get my next pup I'll be doing a lot of work on their behaviour outside of training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Huski - I hear ya! fun and games = communication and bonding , which makes formal training easier later on :) Totally agree with this! I have experienced this with my recent pup. Also training is alot more fun as your dog is having fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 :) lesson this morning , with our two youngsters , who were trying to jump on my lap . By blocking with my hands..they sat ...which was my cue to lift up my hands and say 'Hup' and encourage them to jump up :) they did very well ..and parked bums on ground really quickly , waiting for the chance to jump up ;) Fun, and educational (and muddy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I made that mistake with my older dog at several points actually. Training became too serious - she just switched off and I got all stressed. She taught me that if I don't keep it fun and light-hearted, see you later. But not all dogs are as feisty as she is - you do sometimes see dogs that are doing all their obedience exercises well but there seems to be little joy and once it's all over they'd rather just get some space. That's definitely not what I want. I want Pasha to look forward to his training sessions, because he gets to play with ME! Edited January 13, 2012 by Zug Zug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 BTW Persephone your signature cracks me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have a 13 week puppy, our training so far... - Crate games - Recall games (SG recallers stuff) - Collar grab game - Lots of playing tug, with all different toys in all different places with distractions. - Go to your mat and stay there - Sit, down, stand, nose target, wait - Rollover, beg, shake hands, spin left & right - 101 things with a box - Wobble board - Loose lead walking - Toilet training of course! Going on command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 My next puppy will learn the value of having fun self control having fun their crate having fun immediately responding to requests having fun being allowed to go and investigate things remembering that the best fun is time we spend together. Everything else will flow from that. It's all about making our time together FUN and rewarding. Once he understands that our relationship is the source of the coolest fun its pretty easy to teach them just about anything - manners, formal commands etc etc. Mistakes with my current dogs: you need to use corrections to teach behaviour - just slows them down and takes the fun/joy out of it for both of us. you need to control your dogs' behaviour - far better for them to work out what you want and how to get what they want than to force and/or direct them to do something. dogs should be able to run and play together from the moment they get home - not until our relationship is sorted! just because they don't want to do something they don't have to. 'shutting down' is just as rude as boisterous behaviour - just a different manifestation of the finger. making sessions last too long - any dog, puppy or adult that doesn't understand what I am asking for will not enjoy training, not matter how drivey they are. Lumping - exercises need to be broken down into TINY compartments to help learn and proof behaviour of any sort. I'm sure there is more, but that's what comes to mind up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) It but what is this collar grab game of which you speak? I really wish I had done Recallers! What kind of games does it have? Edited January 13, 2012 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Collar grab is just as it sounds - depending on how robust dog is, touch collar, give reward. Then work up to more robust handling and moving dog from place to place. In theory dog will offer collar, eventually, I think. Good if dog gets away or to teach dog that it's not punishment to be grabbed by collar. You can find some of the games in Susan's Ruff Love book and also Leslie McDevitt's Control Unleashed. Everyone seems to do similar games eg Susan's It's Yer Choice is Leslie's Leave It. Lots of variations from various trainers. The Crate Games DVD is interesting, too, although I think the term "Games" is a bit euphemistic for some of this stuff eg collar grab. It's just practise taking dog by collar and reward. You could call sit training "The Sit Game" on this basis. It seems to me there is a current fad for teaching using games and everyone is on that bandwagon. I noticed Amazon has books about training using games. The idea is to "shape" not "lure" because training using lures is outmoded and often the lure isn't faded quickly enough so it becomes a "show me the money" dog. I'm doing Recallers 3.0. Basically you're meant to spend a lot of time a day (forget the 5 minute recall) playing games with your dog, inside, outside and away from home, upping the criteria progressively. The idea is to focus them on you as the centre of their universe and the keeper of all the fun (versus the environment, toys, squirrels etc). I'd say it is excellent for bonding with your dog because you're spending every spare minute playing games. Bound to have a positive effect. Poppy whines for me to provide more joy! Not sure if that's a good thing. Can see how it might create separation anxiety by making you the dog's total focus. I'd recommend Puppy Peaks for puppy owners - shows you training Susan's latest dog, Swagger (BC of course) from weeks. Fascinating insight into the life of a dead serious dog trainer and the early training of a top competition dog. Edited January 22, 2012 by Poppy's mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I tend to focus much more on socialisation than commands as such. things like: learning their name being handled nails trimmed bathed bite inhibition toilet training ofcourse collars, leads, coats people, places, things games and relationship-building like huski said too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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