angelsun Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Recently I've listened to a few people quote what I truly believe are 'breeders wives tales' that is, have no basis of scientific proof of actually being truthful. I would love to hear some of the things that others have heard, and discuss whether there is in fact truth to the 'tale' or is it just something believed for so long, that many think it's factual. I have been recently told, that too much protein in the diet will make a dog go east/west in the front. Now I"m aware that a high protein can cause growth issues and often can bring forward things like Pano in some breeds, but this was the first time I've heard it explain away a bad front. The dog in question is east west from the elbow as well as turns out at the pastern slightly, both creating quite a noticable fault. I'm not interested in discussions about the famous ones like, "she'll be a better dog once she has a litter" or "once they are neutered they all get fat". I"m thinking the ones about 'umbilical hernia being hereditary', 'once a ceasar always a ceasar' type things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Too much protein effects fronts in growing Danes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentapride Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I have tenties and I had a boy that went horribly east west when I started feeding a well known super premium small breed puppy dry food. His sister on the same diet was not affected. Everyone that saw him said that there would be no way that it would correct. Well I stopped feeding the puppy dry put the pups on the adult version + their normal barf and within 6 weeks his front legs returned to perfectly straight and today you would not know it was the same dog. I can't say that it was 100% high protein but he went east west when the protein levels were increased dramatically by introducing a supposed high quality small breed super premium dry food and returned to normal when removed from that diet. I no longer feed puppy dry food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) VET - Micheal Bell article on Umbilical Hernia's believed to be hereditary. Edited June 2, 2012 by SwaY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Michael Bell states that hernias are hereditary, but he has not cited any studies proving this. I have yet to see a study which states they are hereditary, yet vets say they are. There must be some information somewhere, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inez Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I well remember the first litter I bred, by a friends stud. To my horror all 4 had both umbilical and two groin hernias. so big they needed surgical closure. When I told the owner of the sire, her first words were "But they said he wouldnt pass that on" She had paid big for a "stud and show quality male" with all three hernia's. MY girl had none, neither did her parents. So I was "not happy jan" What caused me to believe they certainly are inherited. she had three litters to different sires with no hernia's (asked and checked after the first disaster) and never had another occur in any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 hairless breeds .......breeding coateds into a hairless line WILL improve the dentition! A hairless mouth is known for the missing teeth, thats what the genetic genie produces, if a coated dog is introduced all coated should have full dentition, hairless will remain the same with missing dentition.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Michael Bell states that hernias are hereditary, but he has not cited any studies proving this. I have yet to see a study which states they are hereditary, yet vets say they are. There must be some information somewhere, surely. Actually even he stated "believed to be". I "believe" the jury is still out on this one! Edited June 3, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I do know hernias can also be caused from Mum (or breeder) being a littler rough in pulling on the umbilical cord when they are trying to cut/chew it. Logically, I can see this happening. I think it depends on how well you know the circumstances of the birth of the pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I had someone tell me that use of Roundup in the yard caused cleft palates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 A few things people/books told me that I had to unlearn. 1. You must not allow other dogs near a nursing bitch. I'm sure there are bitches who will attack anyone or anything that comes near their pups. All of mine have been tolerant/welcoming of the other dogs in the household. I don't let a very broody bitch in with someone else's pups, at least not until three weeks or so, out of fear that she'll take over the litter . . . I've had several girls get milk when another girl had pups. On a couple occasions the 'second mother' has come in handy when it gets near weaning time for a big litter. 2. Bitches with pups want to be in a quiet, secluded place. I'm sure this is true of some bitches. My girls like the living room just fine. They spend more time with their pups if they can be near the rest of the family. 3. Newborn puppies should be kept in a very warm room. I went to great pains to keep the room warm for my first few litters. The bitch hated it and the pups scattered in the whelping box. It IS true that newborns don't thermo-regulate and shouldn't be chilled. But I've found 20 C is a fine air temperature . . . add supplemental heating from a light or veterinary heating pad. It's best to watch the pups. If they clump tight it could be warmer. If they scatter, it's probably too warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Sandgrubber - your number 3 is something I discovered too and wish I had known. I was paranoid with a late May litter of letting them get cold and when on night 2 or 3 they were really unsettled and I tried everything I thought I must have the room too cold so I turned the heater up and they got more unsettled. A fw friends said take them out of the box and somewhere a bit cooler and see if the y settle - they are probably too warm. Bingo!! Heater turned off after that and only use the heat lamp over the box and never had issues with them clumping up like they were cold or being really whingy and unsettled again (well not until they were older and they just wanted OUT, lol) I did however have a bitch that didn't want the others anywhere near her or the other pups and would only relax t toilet if the others were outside too. She never had a go but if they came near the baby gate to her room she would stand sideways across the doorway so they couldn't even see in and was very much on edge about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Sandgrubber - your number 3 is something I discovered too and wish I had known. I was paranoid with a late May litter of letting them get cold and when on night 2 or 3 they were really unsettled and I tried everything I thought I must have the room too cold so I turned the heater up and they got more unsettled. A fw friends said take them out of the box and somewhere a bit cooler and see if the y settle - they are probably too warm. Bingo!! Heater turned off after that and only use the heat lamp over the box and never had issues with them clumping up like they were cold or being really whingy and unsettled again (well not until they were older and they just wanted OUT, lol) I did however have a bitch that didn't want the others anywhere near her or the other pups and would only relax t toilet if the others were outside too. She never had a go but if they came near the baby gate to her room she would stand sideways across the doorway so they couldn't even see in and was very much on edge about it. Just to add I think that the quantity of pups also contributes to the need for more or less heating. 1-3 pups may need a warmer artificial environment than say 1-3 pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Just to add I think that the quantity of pups also contributes to the need for more or less heating. 1-3 pups may need a warmer artificial environment than say 1-3 pups. Hmm well that may explain it - we had 9 in the box so plenty of body heat going on in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelsun Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have another good one that was told a few years back and I still laugh my head off, but the person stating it, TRULY believed it! The longer the tie, the more pups the bitch will have! And then another favourite: The bitch won't have more pups than she has nipples...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I have another good one that was told a few years back and I still laugh my head off, but the person stating it, TRULY believed it! The longer the tie, the more pups the bitch will have! And then another favourite: The bitch won't have more pups than she has nipples...... Yes, I've heard that too. Interesting that it is applied to all breeds regardless of litter averages!!! Probably has it's foundation in the fact that "slip" matings often result in small litter sizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avalanches Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 How about this one all litter mates produce the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseclipt Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I had someone tell me that use of Roundup in the yard caused cleft palates. Ummmmm - A body of research done here in Canada seems to counter claims by Roundup's maker, Monsanto, that it is safe. Five years ago, a graduate student at the University of Manitoba, Jennifer Magoon, found statistically significant links between the use of crop sprays and serious health problems with infants born in farming areas of the province where such sprays were commonly used. Those problems included low birth weights, spina biffida, respiratory distress, jaundice, Down syndrome, cleft palate, retinal degeneration and cataracts. Her findings do not mention Roundup. But she singled out herbicides as the class of crop chemical she was most concerned with. In 1997, the Ontario Farm Family Health Study surveyed almost 19 hundred male farmers in Ontario who'd been exposed to several chemicals, including glyphosate in their faming activities. It concluded that their partners were "more than twice as likely" to miscarry or give birth, prematurely. In 2,001 another phase of the same study, surveyed almost 4 thousand pregnant farm women in the same province. All had been involved in farming activities, milking cows, cultivating or seeding the fields and sometimes helping their partners mix and apply the herbicides. 395 of those women experienced miscarriages. All had been exposed to a variety of pesticides, including glyphosate. In the words of the study, "Among older women (over 34) exposed to glyphosate, the risk of miscarriage was three times that for women of the same age who were not exposed to this active ingredient." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roseclipt Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 And here: http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/carasc.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) I had someone tell me that use of Roundup in the yard caused cleft palates. Ummmmm - A body of research done here in Canada seems to counter claims by Roundup's maker, Monsanto, that it is safe. Five years ago, a graduate student at the University of Manitoba, Jennifer Magoon, found statistically significant links between the use of crop sprays and serious health problems with infants born in farming areas of the province where such sprays were commonly used. Those problems included low birth weights, spina biffida, respiratory distress, jaundice, Down syndrome, cleft palate, retinal degeneration and cataracts. Her findings do not mention Roundup. But she singled out herbicides as the class of crop chemical she was most concerned with. In 1997, the Ontario Farm Family Health Study surveyed almost 19 hundred male farmers in Ontario who'd been exposed to several chemicals, including glyphosate in their faming activities. It concluded that their partners were "more than twice as likely" to miscarry or give birth, prematurely. In 2,001 another phase of the same study, surveyed almost 4 thousand pregnant farm women in the same province. All had been involved in farming activities, milking cows, cultivating or seeding the fields and sometimes helping their partners mix and apply the herbicides. 395 of those women experienced miscarriages. All had been exposed to a variety of pesticides, including glyphosate. In the words of the study, "Among older women (over 34) exposed to glyphosate, the risk of miscarriage was three times that for women of the same age who were not exposed to this active ingredient." I'm not sure of the research to back it but I believe one in five pregnancies ends in miscarriage, often with the woman not being aware she is even pregnant. A pregnancy of just 6 weeks can miscarry without knowlege of the woman, thinking she is merely having a late period. Edited June 10, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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