Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Hi all. I ran another (more advanced) Food Intolerance (Saliva) Test via Hemolife/Nutriscan (Dr Jean Dodds & ors, USA). The list is not exhaustive, but I'm disappointed to have the results confirm what I've learnt (over the 3.5 years of my own work/trials/food experiments etc). I'm not sure where I'll go from here. Have sent a half dozen or so question to the good Dr Jean and maybe some answers will open up a door or two in my mind. But in the meantime, these are the summarised results : Foods I absolutely have to avoid : Turkey Quinoa Salmon White Fish Foods that should also be avoided (reaction but not quite as strong as above, but still affecting) : Chicken Corn Venison Peanut Potato Rabbit Rice Foods that would be better to avoid (I add my own words "if possible" here, as I'm running out of options) - these gave "weak" reactions : Beef Lamb Milk Soy Wheat White fish Barley Millet Oatmeal The only negative result I got from the foods tested was for eggs. Strangely, the general suggestion is to avoid eggs if there is a reaction to chicken. I think I'll be needing to source the help of a very good canine nutritionist who can put together a recipe for a diet or two or three. Roo is not a food source for testing on the Nutriscan list (yet) but going by what I see, I think he would prove to show a reaction to that too. I think I have my work cut out for me. Edited : white fish was re-tested and came in as "strong reaction" (the worst out of all tested foods so far). Edited August 30, 2012 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Wow,that sure sure makes things dificult! Whats quinoa? Just wondering if you have access to goat or camel and how he might go with either of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Wow that is quite a list! Hope you are able to find a good diet with food he can tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Augustine The Boxer Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi Erny, our recipes suit your constraints and they have been verified by a canine nutritionist. Starter kits also available at http://store.augustineapproved.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Was goat tested for? (I cant remember if it would be covered by the beef test) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Your dog sounds like me! I had something like 42 positive reactions to food and plants etc. The only thing I had a negative reaction to was coffee, which I don't drink!! When you get that many reactions you really can't do a heap about it. I avoid the things that cause a nasty reaction. I would feed him stuff from the third list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Jumabaar and Moosmum - He's never eaten goat. I bought a side of goat from the butcher's once and Mandela wouldn't touch it. It is in pieces, frozen in (his own private) freezer and I pull out a piece on the odd occasion to see if he's had a change of mind (ie nose) but nope, won't touch it. I even cut some of the meat off the bone and cooked it, to see if that would make a difference, but no. I generally trust his instincts for stuff he won't eat (although I suspect in certain situations he tests to see if I'll 'play'). I have not tried camel. Where do we get camel from? JulesP - yes, that's what I already considered. When you end up with next to nothing remaining as a possibility, the "weakest reaction" list is the only thing to go for and I would be thinking that the foods on that list would need to be fed as alternatives to each other on a frequently rotating basis. I've sent this question to Dr Jean Dodds (amongst other questions) for her opinion also. The difference between Food Intolerances and Allergy testing (from how I understand it) is that allergy symptoms can appear as a result of the irritation to the gut, whereas Food Intolerance results indicate the 'signature' of the dog and reveal the potential for irritation before the a development of allergy occurs. (I think that's along the essence of it.) You're right - it's hard to do much when there are so many things that the body is intolerant to. Augustine the Boxer - I will have another squiz at your website again (visited there last year, I think, when I was still working things through with Mandela). If your food did work for Mandela I would suggest you'll have a HUGE winner on your hands and a big demand for your food, :laugh: - maybe you'd add a picture of his face on your packet. Seriously though, I will have a look. Must admit price is a consideration of sorts right now - Mandela's dietary requirements are eating me out of house and home!!! But will stroll on over to your site and see what can be seen :D. Would be great if that proved to be a solution . <sigh> :) ....... Will continue to try :D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Augustine - at your website. Pardon me, but I'm feeling a bit lazy (actually, mainly a bit time poor atm) and I'm wondering what it is that you would suggest I'd order from you to make/establish a full/complete diet that would suit Mandela? Also, the "Super Food" ..... contains Barley Grass. Food Intolerance test has shown him as throwing an albeit weak reaction to Barley. I presume this would be the grain, but would Barley Grass also be likely to affect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Horse is another meat that might be a consideration. I was given about 500 grams of it once from a guy in the dog industry, to try out. Mandela enjoyed it straight off (which is a start, but not a given). Anyone know where horse can be bought and that the meat is 'clean' ? I try not to think of what the meat source is, too much, being a life-long horsey person myself. But when you're stretched to finding something that might suit as I am, you tend to turn your mind to food sources that you might not ordinarily consider . Note : Horse is only a consideration because it has not been tested for (and I don't know the result) and because at this point there's no consumption history to indicate it being a problem or not. Edited August 28, 2012 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieDog Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Hi Erny, sorry to hijack your thread but are Mandelas food intolerances related to irritable bowel? I ask as my dog has recently been diagnosed with severe irritable bowel. We are getting an ultrasound next week to measure intestine walls (or something) but I believe I'll need to start to work out what she can and can't eat. Would you be able to point me in the right direction of how you got Mandela tested? It may prove helpful if I get my dog tested.....maybe? Ta. Edited to say found the testing kit co. In your original post. Helps if I read things properly. Edited August 28, 2012 by AussieDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Hi Aussie Dog - If my thread outlining my experiences helps even just one person, I'm happy for you to hi-jack away :D. Yes - if it is in your dog's 'signature' to be food intolerant to certain foods and this is not picked up and the food is administered, the result can be irritable bowel. When you're on the Nutriscan website, scroll across the top tabs and some drop down boxes will appear. One of them will be "FAQS". Apart from the general reading of the website I found FAQS helpful at least in part towards beginning to understand what it is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 When theres so much need for caution I wouldn't want to push the goat either. I'm sorry I can't say where you could try for camel,but I suspect where you can get horse would be a good start.Now where to find horse.:laugh: You might have to track them down through the sale yards unless your dog contact is still around.Abatoirs might be able to steer you right. I heard mention of a place in sydney that supplied it.I can see if I can confirm it if thats any help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I heard mention of a place in sydney that supplied it.I can see if I can confirm it if thats any help? Thanks Moosmum ..... that could be of help and that's certainly something that I'd be glad of right now :) . Perhaps they can give some hints/tips/guides to whether they ship to Victoria and/or whether they know of other places in Victoria. I particularly want to know the meat is clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I believe horse meat is pretty clean generaly. I'm a horse person myself,but figure it makes practical sense so long as its done humanely. I've known of horse people who've sold to dog people doing their own butchering,just because they know that person will do it with respect. I get the impression its a fairly wide spread practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Isn't there a problem feeding camel to dogs? Something about a weed they eat which makes their flesh toxic to dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've heard that too, Inevitablue, but don't know much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Whats quinoa? Sorry - I missed this question. I had to look it up as I'd not heard of it either. Quinoa is a whole grain - or more particularly, a seed that is like and/or prepared in the same way as whole-grains. It looks a bit like Barley. Apparently a good healthy source of nutrition, but obviously not for Mandela. Neither is Barley, as you'll see. Coincidentally, for the first time ever I tried Mandela with Barley (cooked) in his food about 4 weeks ago as his poop was quite soft/sloppy and I felt he needed more fibre (and was looking for something to add to or to use as an alternative to, sweet potato). It seemed to make it worse and although I wasn't certain it was the culprit, I stopped feeding it to him. Turns out my guess was right, going by the Intolerance Test results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chequeredblackdog Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 This is from another thread: Quote by Augustine the Boxer Apparently there are millions of camels in the Australian outback and they are being culled. Some of these camels eat indigofera which contains the acid indospicine. It is a toxic amino acid. Although there is no evidence to suggest it is harmful to humans or camels, dogs consuming meat from camels that have eaten indigofera have suffered severe liver disease and in some cases it has been fatal. A thread on another forum says a cheap barf containing camel meat killed dogs early last year. Camels run wild so there is no way of controlling which ones have been exposed to the toxin. About a year ago when I was researching meat that I could use in Augustine's Super Food I spoke to a man who deals in camel meat and he told me about the indigofera problem. He pointed me in the direction of a member of parliament that verified this to be true and correct. After he explained that research needs to be carried out (which is very expensive and no one will fund), I decided it was better to be safe than sorry. Until they find a way to control or test which camels have been exposed to the toxin I would not use it. It is a shame because it is a good meat that is being culled anyway. Here is an article: http://www.abc.net.a...el-meat/2666520 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) This is from another thread: Quote by Augustine the Boxer Apparently there are millions of camels in the Australian outback and they are being culled. Some of these camels eat indigofera which contains the acid indospicine. It is a toxic amino acid. Although there is no evidence to suggest it is harmful to humans or camels, dogs consuming meat from camels that have eaten indigofera have suffered severe liver disease and in some cases it has been fatal. A thread on another forum says a cheap barf containing camel meat killed dogs early last year. Camels run wild so there is no way of controlling which ones have been exposed to the toxin. About a year ago when I was researching meat that I could use in Augustine's Super Food I spoke to a man who deals in camel meat and he told me about the indigofera problem. He pointed me in the direction of a member of parliament that verified this to be true and correct. After he explained that research needs to be carried out (which is very expensive and no one will fund), I decided it was better to be safe than sorry. Until they find a way to control or test which camels have been exposed to the toxin I would not use it. It is a shame because it is a good meat that is being culled anyway. Here is an article: http://www.abc.net.a...el-meat/2666520 Whoa! Thanks for that.Up to you Erny, Do I persist with enquiries? Edited August 28, 2012 by moosmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Up to you Erny, Do I persist with enquiries? Sorry Moosmum .... thought you were talking about horse meat. If camel meat, no thanks. I won't take the risk. If horse meat, contact info would help, unless it turns out I can find a reputable place down this way (Victoria, Melbourne) that people know of and use? If too much trouble, don't worry and leave it to me. I can come back here and ask again in the event I struggle to find somewhere. Cheers Erny :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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